In the two games combined
 

It seemed like a hundred, and when you make mistakes on your own to boot it's a bad cocktail.

You had roughly 17 total that was against you I think for both games, 2 TD's came back from those if I remember right, Hey, it happens, sometimes the box will work for you, sometimes it want.

P.S. In a game last year, I allmost launched the box across the room :) .
Norbert

Nothing wrong with that part Dre!
 

I agreed with it even though I lost a championship opportunity last year because I got tired of the same five guys in the Superbowl for the most part.

To be honest though I have never been on either side of that box to that degree. So the lesson is that my level of preparedness has to be much more than in the past. I can't have six "too many men on the field" penalties in a row because then the box can pile on. My lack of preparedness setting up frustrated me. Noticing some disparities in the ruleset was part of the overall evaluation of the contests.

My men RAN perfectly for the most part. I can no longer go into games winging it. Those days are gone so like I said that night it's days like that where you grow and learn the most. Winning 7-0, 14-7, I am tired of that. I am changing my offense and the _zz kickings were worth it. I just happen to notice in the contest that there were some things that needed correcting.

Reginald encouraged that. Whether anyone else appreciates it or not is of little concern to me.

Kenny and others

Once again I agree with you .

The problem I have is the box in connection with the QB.

Should I be able to use the box to throw?

What are the standards for who can and who can't?

I have been told by a Doctor that I have the knees of a 75 year old, I have a handicap sticker, I am in constant pain .

So should I be allowed to use the box?

Well I dont want to . I am not a very good passer but I have put time in and I am OK at times.

I do believe some people should be allowed to use the box but I didnt know that the box was changed in mid season WOW!!

Like I said along time ago, go with what Jeff said and look at it at the end of the year.

Here is what I can see at this point in the season( And Jim I am not coming after you. You have just used the tools you were given.)

My problem is that Jim Davis should not have the stats of the 10 rated QB in the nation. And I say that because it is the box .To me the box should be a avg. passer not the 10th best in the nation.

And here are the stats that says he is.
#12 QB COLLINS , KERRY(Penn State_big10) 106 58 1419 17 4 212.5

Like I said this is not about you it is about the BOX.


PS: Jim ran the ball 6 times in his last game . WOW!!!!

Why because the best pct. for him is to pass. WOW!!!

Norbert.
 

Please read the entire post.

Gotcha

Norbert Revels

Rookie!
 

First of all Jim could not run. His team played on a neutral field. The passing stats are consistent. However, being a stat freak here is the most telling stats.

14 att, 4 comp, 25 yds, 2 int's.

Those were Jim's stats in the first week with the new passing rules. They were terribly lopsided. Since then he has only thrown two interceptions because the quick fix now makes it lopsided against other opponents. The rule states that with the passing box you have 20 seconds to choose your receiver. Then you shake the box. That's like us having 20 seconds to pick a receiver, then pass. The problem with that is we actually have about 10 seconds to pick the receiver and 10 seconds to line the passer and throw. But again, this isn't about who (Jim) but what (ruleset).

This is a national league so what we all see and observe is relevant to everyone.

In closing, I have some tough road games however I consider that a challenge. You are going to win and you are going to lose. I don't think that anyone should expect to win all the time like Mike has in this ruleset. Having said that people need to both think and read carefully in this ruleset. Jim got crapped on in his first game. What should have happened was to just go back to the tried and tested method which at least gives you a chance at a erstwhile pass. I mean, some of those completed passes any of us could have thrown int's.

My idea is simple:

Anyone in the passing lane 5 or more yards down the field the risk for int's increases by one. 12 is int no matter what to offset the fumble rule. I think that should do it. The whole process, including the box shake, should not exceed 20 seconds. That would be fair to any person and their opponent.

I still think that the defense should do something to cause a fumble. If you can't tackle how can you create fumbles. It is not so much a correlation to the game. Basically, there should be some cause and effect without losing site of rewarding good play.

Just my thoughts!

I like the rule they use in Cally where it is a broken tackle when the defender falls down and a fumble when the Ball carrier gets knocked down.

We have been doing that since 1974
 

That was our ruleset from the DEFL all the way through the Great Lakes. Here are some interesting things for you ponder:

You will not use tall receivers or rookie bases. There is a huge risk for fumbles when hit from the side with a wide TTC.

Clarifying the actual fumble. Was he falling before contact? Things like that.

I think the dice work fine, they are clear, but should only be on contact.


I am saying this knowing that I cause tons of contact fumbles with my speedy safeties. I just like using rookie bases for something other than kick and punt coverage. Trust me, they won't be around in mass if that rule is adopted.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Treks111#p/u/20/fu9ewMDtwaE

Second play, what a hit! This was three years ago though.

sorry I just couldn't resist
 

From the peanut gallery.....



lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:

Yep!
 

You did warn me.

box passing
 

hey rookie,

From what i understand anyone can use the pass box. If you start the game using either method you must stick with that method the entire game. If your knees hurt one day use the box. If you start with the ttqb and your knees give out in the second corner, your stuck with the pain for 3 quarters.


mantaraydre

Manta

I thought I had heard that but I have put so much time into the passing thing I will stick with it.

My point was not that I wanted to use it , it was that I think the box should repesent the avg. player not a superstar passer.
But thanks for the information/

passing.
 

rookie,


I agree, the pass box is like a third string qb coming in just to manage the game. He should not be rated with those using the ttqb, I MAY HAVE TO USE THE BOX THIS WEEKEND IN PHILLY. If a coach uses both throughout the season, only the games he used the ttqb or tdq should his qb rankings be based on.


mantaraydre

funny...
 

As a former wargamer, it's fun to see that something a lot of wargamers hate, a lot of MFers like it :D

I remember when I played tabletop wargames, there was always discussions on the random and luck aspect of rulesets we played. A lot of players didn't like (and stills don't like) dice random events, especially the ones wich can change the result of the game. "Omniprésence des dés" we say in french, wich I can roughly translate by "too much important dice effects in the final result".

I just can't imagine to play a game, achieving a good defense play/small score and being defeated because a dice roll, for example :eek:

If people can't or don't want to play TTQB passing, I stronly suggest them to try the passing sticks. thmbsp$


Anyway, I can understand why people has interest in random box or dice-type events, but I understand why some other ones will not like it too :D

I have a question on the box passer.
 

In my game on Saturday I lost my QB and starting TTQB for 7 plays due to injury. I had to use my back up (Kicker) which did not hurt me too bad (missed two passes that I would have made with my starter). With that said, what happens to the box passers if your QB gets hurt? Do the percentages go down for completions?


Brian

Nothing happens but that would be a good rule to add to the current system.

Good points guys!
 

I would like to thank those of you who truly understood the value in my post. Initially my post was somewhat of a keep your head up to Mike (Broncoman). Obviously, some read past his post straight to mines for whatever reasons.

Back to the matter at hand:

I think there should be no changes for this year. When I posted it was for next year's agenda. That was what we were supposed to do as a national entity.

So pick up your phones like you do then try to rationalize like chickenheads because of your own sick beliefs.

Again, my successes are not measured by plastic men.

But if something needs to be addressed then it's what I do.

Count on it! thmbsp$

Yep!
 

That was one of my earlier points. What does happen? Well status quo for now but the thought of what should happen is the question. Possibly change the number for longer throws? Anyone can dump off but the real effect of the backup is in both timing and distance. A small to moderate adjustment. Don't take it from starter to high school reserve. Those are my thoughts.

3rd String??
 

Dre,

My guy plays like a third stringer most times but he is my starter. :rtfl:

Having said that I think it cruel to relegate anyone to third string status right off the bat. Maybe due to injuries but to be honest I like the challenge of playing a tough running coach who can pass. The small tweaks would balance it out in my opinion.

For example,

Let's say the passer goes 10 for 10 then rolls a twelve for an int like last year. Well that turnover, based on the value of turnovers in this hobby, is like five completions in my opinion. It balances out the excess, if any. That's why I say the completion ratio should be dropped a little for reserves because the int's are huge.

Again, this would have to be for next year.

A VOTE FOR NEXT YEAR
 

CBSMF COACHES

Instead of going back and forth regarding the use of passing sticks. Why don't each PAYING cbsmf coach participate in a poll. The poll would be whether to use the sticks or passing box. Whichever wins will be the second passing option of choice. It would be valid because it was voted upon. If the STICKS WIN OUT, and your qb gets injured for any amount of time. During that time, any pass thrown (length of passing stick) WILL BE DOUBLED.

if using a 5 yard stick comes up, IT WILL NOW BE 10 YARDS. This scenario continues on until your starter returns.

THIS IS ALL CONTINGENT ON A VOTE NEXT YEAR !!!!

PS/ FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN THIS PAST WEEKEND, NOT ALL RECEIVERS RUN PERFECTLY STRAIGHT. SO THERE CHANCE OF RECEIVING THE FOOTBALL VIA A 6 YARD PASSING STICK IS NOT A GIVEN.

In smittys league ALL STICKS ARE 4 YARDS. In the cbsmf since the emphasis
in regards to passing is based on the skill. To make using passing sticks harder just increase the length of each throw that your receiver must run under to catch. lets say an 8 yard stick and a 10 yard stick. keep it simple.


THANX
MANTARAYDRE

Don't know how that goes Dre but . . .
 

Placing sticks properly requires getting up and standing possibly as long as a regular pass. You have to take the right angle, etc.

I just think a minor tweak here and there should take care of it.

Just my thoughts.thmbsp$

Good conversation.

I agree with Ken. Just a few minor adjustments for next season should do the trick.

You guys should write down your suggestions and pass them on to the rules committee. I'm sure they can present us with their findings/rulings and how they've come to their conclusions in time for next year.

shkthbx:

Don

How about Greg starts a threat that is open to paid CBSMF coaches only.
In this threat coaches can list problems and possible rule adjustments then it can be review at the end of this year.

I know I have all these great ideas during the games I play but forget them after the season.

FUMBLE
 

COACHES,

A fumble should not occur if the runner is in the open with no one near him.

maybe the box can be shaken only to simulate a block in the back,holding or something else if the runner is in the clear.

A fumble can occur if the runner is tackled or has a defensive player 1 base length outside of his base. That would simulate the defensive sticking his arm out and strippng the ball


thanx
mantaraydre

That's why
 

I posted. I have been really studying rules because I got tired of picking up a phone. I pointed out some discrepancies privately to clarify some contradictions but in responding to someone else some questions arose. I really didn't make it to the box but after studying it during a game I discovered some things that needed, in my opinion, to be addressed.

Sharing information is a part of growth.


Just my thoughts.

Hey Dre'
 

I think it should just be on the tackle or maybe any contact. The problem I forsee is with any contact other than the base is highly debatable ultimately resulting in arguments. As we play any touch tackling the sides of the bases touching one another would serve the same purose of a strip. That's why I suggested on any tackle. Measuring distances slows down the game.

Just my thoughts.

That's not a bad idea.

I just had to put my two cents in.......I think the BOX brings a great element to the game, it should be kept simple period!!!!! The box in my opinion should be absolute, please don't make something more difficult than it needs to be.

Please coaches who use the box to pass don't take this the wrong way.
What I see has become the problem with the box is in its passing simulation. It appears to be skewed, and badly, in favor of the coaches that use it. How can the box be the 10th best passer in the country? Unbelievable. Shake the box, QB gets hurt and WOW its the QB of the coach using the BOX and nothing happens, he just continues onward as if no injury had occured. I read someone posted about passing sticks, you know this might be the way to go, with coaches that feel they are to handicapped to get up and pass, this gives the defense a better opportunity to the ball. Don't get me wrong the box has the potential of being a great tool for pass simulation, but the way it has been configured I doubt if I would ever RUN the ball if I used the BOX to pass.

Fumble/Interception
 

I think that the fumble rule should be only if the ballplayer is tackled. If you shake a fumble then it's exciting to see if he can either get in the end zone our you point his butt out of bounds to see if he can make it to avoid a fumble. In other words you shake to see if there is the potential of a fumble.

As for the interception if no one is around by using box passing, I think you can quickly take a white stick and see if anyone is engaged after the box has shaken an interception. That way the person still has to decide and shake within the 20 seconds but a ruling can be made thereafter. I like having the box available for some people to pass but think the halo for eligible interception needs to be generous (white stick unengaged).

IN A SIMPLIFIED PASS BOX WORLD.
 

COACHES

I see the passing box to always be in question by coaches who must play against. to simplify things and make everyone happy, go to the lo 7 11 dice game on the city streets. forget percentages, players in the lane, etc etc.

KEPT SIMPLE

1) PLAYS 5 YARDS FROM THE LOS/ DIE ROLL 1-6 =CATCH, 7-10 INCOMPLETE.

2) PLAYS 6 YARDS AND BEYOND THE LOS/1-5 COMPLETE, 6-10 INCOMPLETE

***ALL DIE ROLLS OF 11 WILL = PASS BATTED DOWN IF RUSH IS NEAR THE QB.OR, PASS WAS OVERTHROWN IF RECEIVER IS IN HE CLEAR WITH NO DEFENDERS IN SIGHT

**** ALL DIE ROLLS OF 12 WILL = AN INTERCEPTION NO MATTER WHAT.

THAT'S IT.

As a coach playing someone using the box, I CAN LIVE WITH THIS SCENARIO. His chances are just as good as mine. His 1 through 5 will comes up during he game. My 6 through 10 will come up during the game.

***ITS ALL 50/50

*** DIE ROLLS 11 AND 12 ARE THE 2 WILD CARD ROLLS.


You all would just have to count on your 5 numbers outdoing his 5 numbers during a game. totally fair and simple.


mantaraydre.