Lets Talk Strategy Against A Team Stronger Than Yours
 

COACHES,


If you play against a team heavier/stronger than yours, how would you handle them. If the opposing coach wants to play my team is stronger than yours and ill push you into the backfield all day what would you do ? AND THEIR LAUGHING INSIDE KNOWING THEY HAVE THE WEIGHT ADVANTAGE.
Me, you heard of bill walsh right, i would west coast offense you to death with 5 spread wide with geno hendricks tweaked speed bases. SOMEBODY'S GETTING OPEN. If your a masterful ttqb passer like don smith and don hudson, bombs away my friend. You may look up and the score is 28-7. now you will have to rethink your strength a figure out how to stop the receivers, then when the lighter team see's that, play the hash marks on both sides and run speed sweeps quick outs, etc etc. nowwwwwwww the stronger team is thrown off worrying about all your trickery and not their strength.

The lighter team on defense, their a a million stunts a "d" can run that would make an offense cry. YOU CAN HAVE THE STRONG OFF LINEMAN RUN OUT OF A PLAY AND ATTACK FROM THE SIDES, SPLIT THE GAPS, ETC ETC.

I would like to hear from the great coaches that are far more advanced than i am in their srtategy against weights !!!!!!1


mantaray offices

Okay guys, what are you gonna do when the heavy team lines his linemen up base to base with no cracks in between, give the ball to the qb, and surrounds him with running backs? I'll tell you what you're gonna do, you are gonna play rugby my friends, and you ain't gonna like it. He is gonna push you all the way down the field and no looper will get by the fence of running backs.

Now the one thing he believes in is strength, so he sends off to Norbert, Jim, and Geno and he loads these big old dudes with the strongest bases on the planet. I don't care who it is, you won't have a chance, he will control the clock and keep the ball through most of the game.

The reason you have to have certain rules is to force guys to open up and get some game. Most leagues have at least 1 guy who would live off this play if you let him. He is the guy who won't try the TTQB no matter what. So you bring in line splits, formation rules, etc. just to make him play the game like football.

The guy I'm speaking of is the reason for the limits. Most of us use common sense and play by the rules, but there's always 1 who can't seem to set up with quickness or split his guys wide enough or use a formation that actually resembles football. He is the reason for standards.

O-schemer Is So Right
 

Their are coaches who still want to play stack the rack, that's why i like the divider in the sea wall brawl. You MUST put your lineman in their right slot, also receivers and te's. The stack method of playing is not real football, i love coaches with offensive playbooks and run their assortment of play's mixing things up. The 308 and scale size boards are ideal for open play. I think their are some coaches/leagues who still wont embrace this method. If their is a leauge or coach who likes to play stack them up , PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY YOU LIKE AND WANT THAT STYLE OF PLAY. We have got to hear this !

OURS EARS AND EYES ARE OPEN AND WAITING FOR THIS ONE.


Mantaray offices

Base Color
 

COACHES,


I know alot of you like the colored bases, but in my opinion it makeS the game look like a toy again. This sport has evolved so much that we are too elaborate for that type of color change. If i were a base manufacturer, i would spend more time getting the bases to look more and more like grass. Maybe the shell can be grainier with a grassy look (still hard plastic). If someone can paint fields to look like grass, then someone can figure out how to make a base like that.

Two exceptions, the WHITE BASES AND THE BLUE BASES, here's why
I have a blue mantaray field reg rutledge made for me, i asked for blue to represent my ray's being in the water. I also have a BUFFALO BILLS SNOW FIELD AND A MINNESOTA VIKINGS SNOW FIELD. I asked reg rutledge to make them so the game looked as if it was played in a blizzard, the white base represent the snow !!!!!! (THAT'S JUST ME!) I wont play with those two colors unless they are on those fields i mentioned, if i took the teams to a tourney i will play with green bases. But, if i bought my mantaray field to play on and i had home field advantage, you will have to get into the water.
" THE OCEAN IS ANGRY MY FRIEND"

MANTARAY OFFICES

Hmmmm!!!
 

Tron Speaks!

It's good to see a nice civilized post! Coaches exchanging ideas, dogs and cats living together? It's mass hysteria! I too believe that their must be some changes in the rules we use, but you guys know each other all to well. Without some form of RULES and Structure people will come to games with figures dripping glue and clay, bases with gears mounted underneath and robotic QB's and kickers! Creativity is great but the masses have proven time and again they must be ruled with an iron hand and a steal grip!Crush all enemies and see them driven before you! Just play weighted and be done with it! The great and powerful TRON has spoken! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!

good points here, too
 

We have plenty of guys like this in our league and in leagues I have played in the past.

I have seen guys with larger fields STILL keep their lines tight with little space. Why, because they want to have more "open" space to the flanks or outside to make a players miss a tackle (either style).

Divider Style addresses this a little bit, but you cannot angle your o-line which is still a limitation.

Why not try this for the next few months - only use standard defensive formations where D-linemen have to just barely shade offensive linemen; LB's including the aka looper must be at least 5 yds from LOS (outside) and 10yds back in the middle.
O-line can be angled or straight but must maintain a placement stick between each player on the larger size fields.

No QB running into the line for blocking help (think of NFL QB's here) bootlegs are fine shotgun formation is fine except that the QB still cannot run into the line.

you can take some practice time to try this at home..... then after working with it, all report back their findings. Not to say some don't already know this, but just another way to examine some different ways to approch this.

K-LO

Lo-lo
 

will this be a rule in our league...where we must have a gap between our o-linemen...i like that

i think it is already in the rules
 

Moe-Moe

I think it is in there, but some don't use it. I think it could improve game play when you play FOB because it makes you setup blocking angles and makes creating running lanes easy.

Here Goes...
 

Colored Bases: I liken the base, especially the colored bases as an extension of the players' shoes, not the grass. Half full, half empty. Different perspective, huh? I CANNOT mismatch colors, so you'll NEVER see an blue or purple base on my BUCS!!! Or any color other than green on my Michigan State SPARTANS or EAGLES, etc. That's just me. There is NO advantage to using a different color - I tweak ALL of my guys to "play" their positions NOT just to be able to bulldoze each and every player on someone else's team.

David vs. GOLIATH: Speaking of that, WHY do some guys think that if each and every one of their players is stronger than each and every one of someone else's, their gonna win??? I don't get it. 22 Julius Peppers WILL NOT win most games! 22 Neon Deieons WILL NOT win most games. 22 World's Strongest Men WILL NOT win most games. It's ludicrous the time people put into each and every player to make them stronger than a FORD 450 Super Duty!?!?!?!?!

Both of my OTs on my BENGALS are NOT the strongest players on my team. BUT...I designed the figure and trained the base to ride the guy in front them back and around the QB / RB pocket - JUST LIKE REAL LIFE!!! Imagine that!?!

Weights vs. Non-Weights: Remember when there was no such thing as tweaking? Who had a box full of bases that we thought were worthless and useless? Then Tweaking 101 was made OFFICIAL and everybody's "stash" became a goldmine, right? Tweaking made/makes any and ALL bases useable. Adding weight makes any and ALL bases useable on ANY gameboard and it makes those bases MORE reliable.

Experiment 1: Grab your bestest, fastest, straightest, most beautifullest player and run him up and down the field between the hashes 10 times. How many times did he veer outside the lines?

Experiment 2: If he can hold the weight without bottoming out, kid-glue a 1/2" nut underneath him and run the same experiment. Any difference?

Which car would hug the curves and which would flip at the Indy 500? An OFFICIAL IROC-Z or a factory built Camaro? Why? Weight, distribution, tires, fuel, etc. Same with bases and weight guys. It's NOT to give one guy the advantage over another! Everyone can do it. BUT, I do still think there should be some disparity between every player's weight. I DON'T think each and EVERY player should be the same weight.

Weight Classes: The aforementioned weight classes (4.0, 3.6 and 3.2) would be perfect for the Intermediate Class of playing. Out of the bag, unmodified, works best for Beginners. And, AB if you had to put 3 groups of weights on your system what would OL/DL weigh? RBs, TEs and LBs? WRs and DBs? Just play along. Your league can keep on keepin' on, but I personally would like this answered based on what you deem successful in The MPFL. Thanks. ;)

Line Splits vs. I wanna Hold Your Ha-a-a-a-a-and! Rugby is so British and so is Cricket, so is the way most leagues still play, BUT, that's how they have F-U-N, let 'em be. ;) Opening holes and running a "Holy Moses" with Cadillac or A-Train is even MORE F-U-N IMHO!!!

"Lining up 11 vs 11 is SOOOO easy, a caveman can do it!"

Brainless OL: I love that AB's MPFL System allows for this, but I haven't quite gotten my team up to snuff yet. Michigan Joe and I scrimmed a lil last night (WOLVIES vs. WILDCATS) and we had a few chances to turn our OL back and cutoff a faster DE or crack an LB at the 2nd level and even a SS at the 3rd level!!! So, unless we can angle our OL after the DL sets, they're still mindless until a stoppage, and then they have to be unengaged. Closer to realism, but not yet, unless we allow the angles before the snap. Then, of course, we'd have to allow LBs to angle in or out of the hole being clogged or opened. Stay tuned for further play testing!

That's it for now, I wanna read some more! Good Stuff, Dre! Keep them comin'! Oh yeah, Manta Ray meat TASTES GREAT, but it gives me gas! :eek:

very good points, Jimbo.

Jimbo " U Da Man"
 

COACHES,


jimbo makes some incredible points, that is a great post. Im glad this entire weight topic is the order of the day because i think alot of us are unsure about the entire topic. Breakdowns and blueprints regarding how players perform with weight or no weight needs to be in black and white. Coaches ad weight for more strength but maybe they have the wrong idea. I spoke with a coach on the phone and he asked me do i want the weight standard increased to add a manufactures figure (reggies) to my team. The answer was yes I like and want to use his figures without having to shave, drill and cut just to play in a tourney with a weight standard lighter than his figures. His figures are now part of the standard, their a little heavier and old standards need to be ajusted. Should his fig's be left out because they dont fit the old guard, ofcourse not.

I understand their has to be a cut off point, reg has been around a long time and his figs derserve to be the bar for the new standard. What if a new manufacturer made fig's heavier than ff.com fig's, that new figures maker needs to read the cut off NEW standard weight and know they cant go any higher than that. (Whatever is the heaviest ff.com figure out of the bag unpainted should be the cut point.( 2.whatever gram)

I would like to hear other breakdowns of weighted performances vs non weighted performance.

ONE OTHER THING- During a tourney i think their are some coaches that have the weight situation mixed up. When the rules say weight must be 3.0 or 3.2, i think coaches think every player should weigh the 3.0 or 3.2. You can have players weigh less like 2.8 or 2.6, their you would have your weight differences, but alot are focused on the 3.2 (my stupid self included) I think if a coach has a player 2.8 he feels the other coaches players are 3.2 so he must match that! Any new or fairly new guy in the hobby needs to see some serious breakdowns and explanations. sometimes we make think we know but we are suprised when we find someone lese's take on things.

HOW TO USE WEIGHT NEEDS SOME SERIOUS DISCUSSION, NOW I FEEL LIKE IM BACK IN SCHOOL BECAUSE YOU GUY'S KNOW MORE THAN I!!!

IM ALL FOR THE (4.0, 3.6. 3.2) JIMBO AND REG RUTLEDGE NEED TO BREAK THIS DOWN EVEN FURTHER " Learning a great deal from this post)

MANTARAY OFFICES

hey jimbo, if you come to the shootout, THE TITANIC is going to have company come sept 10th ( sunken pirate ships filled with darts are coming)

Dre,
 

Dre,
Your quote:[I]I understand their has to be a cut off point, reg has been around a long time and his figs derserve to be the bar for the new standard. What if a new manufacturer made fig's heavier than ff.com fig's, that new figures maker needs to read the cut off NEW standard weight and know they cant go any higher than that. (Whatever is the heaviest ff.com figure out of the bag unpainted should be the cut point[/i]

This possibilty is what scares people to increase the size or weight.We do not want it to become an arms race.

Now remember I am for the split weights I am the first on this post to mention it. I just think this should be in the foremost part of our mind while we create these changes

Geno H

May the G-FORCE be with you!

Jimbo
 

weight and kickers
 

first thought, you should be able to use any kicker you want. how many times do you use a kicker in a game anyway?????
as far as weight on men, think about this. how many of you take the time to weigh your oppents men before a game or tournament. and useing different weighs, this could take a lot of time. kids and new comers want go for that. they will say that is to much trouble and go back to madden.
if all stay at 3.2, they can feel more comfortable and ready to play.
don't get me wrong, change is good as long as it is for the better and not to help get ahead.
SMITTY, you and i just dicussed this on the phone 2 weeks ago about bases,
boat bases. that is why a lot of the west coast want go east cause of base restriction.
just my 2 cents.




broncoman

Well so far, I'ld like to thank everyone for the support on the kickers. They're easy enough to make, more reliable and stronger than regular ones, and if the kicker is painted, almost undetectable. As far as bases go, I'm confused with what the big deal is with boat bases. What's "wrong" with them? Is it because they're too wide or too long? Too heavy? Aren't they still readily available? Why aren't they allowed? I'm clueless. :confused: :confused: :confused:

And...
 

...'cause ya'll SCARED!!! :eek: :D :p <<<---Smiley faces mean I was kinda kiddin'!?! :p

Today's coaches are trending toward bigger boards i.e. ff.com's 308 and MegaWattz' Fields which means bigger or more motors which means the little 3.2 guys get tossed around. Sure you can compensate a lil bit with different tweaking methods, BUT adding a nut or washers or lead tape or playing with ff.coms unmodified INSTANTLY improves most bases' performance WHILE AT THE SAME TIME it allows for faster game speed. I pray I never have to play another 4 hour game because the speed is set so slow because the board vibrates so badly guys fall over each and EVERY time the board is switched on! :rolleyes:

If new manufacturers - WHY??? - made figures then they should match what is in existence.

What if ALL figures were made to 1.8 grams and the platforms were adjustable i.e. cut into grid squares which could be broken off or cutoff a square at a time until the desired weight is achieved? That's a freebie for whoever, but I'd like a lil love thrown my way in the form of 200 FREE bags of figures when you make 'em!!! ;)

And back to what Mike in Vegas was saying, "YA'LL SCARED!!!!" :D

AL: Boat bases were 1st prohibited because they weren't readily available to everyone anymore. When ****** released their 1st run Pro Lines, those "bullet bases" were significantly longer and wider than the normal bases. Even the rounded front PLs of today aren't allowed because MOST coaches can't play a Zone Defense and WRs on those bases cannot be or are less likely to be grabbed and mauled at the LOS. Pathetic if you ask me.

Also most people play the dreaded 10-1 Defense so as soon as the ball is snapped, any receivers on rounded PLs are instantly past the LOS. It doesn't give the O an advantage in my book because I would put my DL on them!?! Hmmm....??? Honestly, if you create a CB that can bump-n-run, like Cover Corners are supposed to do - it's defendable. PLUS, if you get a rush on the QB or get your guys in passing lanes - REAL Football anyone??? - then it really should be a non-issue. :rolleyes: Restrictions in this regard are for lesser coaches....correction...players. :cool:

West Coast guy answering the questions

1. I buy all of the different styles of bases so that I don't miss out on anything. If somebody comes up with something I want to be able to try it right away. I love the old single clip rookie bases and the miggle proline boats.

2. I buy all figures just to try them out but I base my purchases on look and tradition. I buy Haiti because those were always my favorite men as a kid. I have to have at least one player in an original fab five pose just on GP. My team wouldn't be an EF team without the fab five poses. I buy everything else on look first, then balance. I use and enjoy every manufacturers figures but not every pose in their product line.

3. I like to play on big fields but not enough to own one...yet. I prefer the 620 size for portability. Make a big board that is light and easy to transport and I'm with it.

4. Our league plays DFW rules and I love them. But I'm always open to try different rules sets. What I don't want to do is build teams without being allowed to use any base or figure combination I want. I have more issues with some of the equipment restrictions.


David C.

Spring Kickers
 

Thumbs up.
I have used his kickers and they are fantastic.

How many times have we purchased Miggle Kickers that do not work.

His method rectifies this problem.

What are people afraid of?

I vote to use his kickers.

weight and bases
 

some of you want to allow different weights for line and backs.
for new comers and kids just started to play, they would say this is to much and go back to madden. as we say in coaching football at school-KEEP IT SIMPLY STUIPED.
THINK HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO WEIGH MEN BEFORE EACH GAME OR EVEN WORSE, TOURNAMENT GAMES. 3.2 IS NATIONAL WHERE YOU CAN GO PLAY ANYONE ANYWHERE ANYTIME.
SMITTY, you and i talked on bases a couple of weeks ago and i expressed then that there should not be a limit on bases in a tournament or league.
this is why the left coast does not go to many tournaments because of all the bases they would have to change.
just my 2 cents.



BRONCOMAN

this is why i would suggest having different levels of play. a basic, traditional ruleset for beginners etc... it would be a little tougher on the tournament organizers, but it would give everyone a choice of how they wanted to play at events.

S-13, I think ...
 

yuou make an outstanding point. One of the things that I think would be enticing at tournaments (and again this is something I conversed on more than 10 years ago) is having a tournament organized where you could have different weight classifications plus skills classifications.

For instance, the tournament could be such that you could have 2-3 weight class combined with passing/kicking and pass simulation/no kick. What this does is creates champions in different classifications. Everybody does not want to play 4.0 grams! Everybody does not want to play 3.2 grams. Everybody does not want to play 8.0 grams. Everybody does not want to play pass simulation/no kicking! Everybody does not want to play passing/kicking. But far be it from me or anyone else to tell any of us which way is the right way! That's why you allow all to be apart of things.

What you will find is that it will make for a faster tournament. Because now, players compete in the tournament style that interest them the most. Also, you will not have guys thinking that "just maybe if we were put on equal footing, we would see his skills/or lack there of".

One of the things you will never hear me say or even think is that what I think is "real football" is the one and only way the game should be played. What you will see me do try to bring more people into the game, no matter what style they prefer.

That's why we at the TSO will always say that if someone has a tournament-type that they want to bring to the Shootout, we welcome it along side what we do. This year, Jimbo will bring the Arena Bowl in. It is up to us to hype the game so that if a person rather go for a championship in that, he can feel free to. That does not say he's any less EFLer than anybody else.

I will always say, I will never stop you from participating with what you want to. Just don't think you have a right to stop me. That's why tournaments are created, to allow for various formats and figures. It just happen so that the TSO is open to ANY and all (provided soemone wants to organize that part of a tourney, i.e., Weighted, Arena Ball, 3.2 gram standard, etc.). It just happen so I do a 4.0 gram tournament but again, Jimbo will be phasing in the Arena Bowl.

Reginald

Reggie, What you just posted is exactly one of the main goals that the MFCA is striving for and was founded on. The idea that all of these methods and styles of play are valid and need to be included. Not necesarily at everybodies event but one time a year at a National Convention.
Here is what I envision and I hope I have the written words to say this correctly. This is only a suggestion and hopefully it will spur others to chime in that can see the advantages to this not only for the MF world but for the many businesses that have developed out of MF.

• The MFCA organizes the hotel and conference rooms, meals and amenities. It also runs the skills competitions throughout the day with members of the MFCA facilitating this. Educational seminars and demonstrations are held throughout the day and the public is invited. Maybe tie it in with a sports card show or Wargaming convention.
• Alongside of this Reggie runs a Texas Shootout style event, George holds a Buzzfest style event, Anthony holds a MPFL tourney, LAEFL runs an event, Arena Ball and any others. If I have not mentioned you please don't feel slighted here. I'm just using these as examples.
• Late at night, a massive MFCA green room rumble takes place. Dinners, fellowship etc...

This has possibilities. Many of us don't have the finances to make all the wonderful events that happen across the country. I myself have to generally pick and choose maybe only two events a year. Why not let the MFCA setup the venue and those that hold tournies reserve space and we tie a few of these together not under one rule set but each under their own. There will still be other events that take place during the year such as Miggle and any others that do not decide to be a part of this.

Wouldn't it be cool or am I dreaming to big?

Weirdwolf, I would ...
 

love to be at a tournament where I know I could play using my own team created in my own image and competing against coaches who throw with the TTQB QB and kick with the TTQB. If everyone has the option of using any type of figurine they wanted, base, or defensive scheme they wanted, I would definitely play (provided I was not the host of it-TSO).

But I also would love to be at that same tournament and watch guys who excel at pass simulation with the use of cards to kick or pass and a limit on the type of figures that could be used (even if it excludes FF.COM), I would definitely observe.

I also would love to see Anthony Burgess bring out his MPFL system and see guys playing with multi-stopping strategies. I would love to see you be able to have as much weight as you want to compete against teams of similar likeness. I would be very watchful at this tournament.

I would love to see at the same tournament, guys who excel at the strategy divider, who have that option of pass or sticks. I would love to see what happens after the wall comes up.

Right now, the style that I prefer is only done at the Texas Shootout! (Bama Blast was close but after Michael Robertson and I played one year in the Blast to combine for 105 points, the rules seemed to change drastically the next year.) Jimbo has suggested that at his college tournament, he's considering using the TTQB exclusive and kicking with the TTQB/Kicker. If he does, I will book my flight TODAY! I love Chicago! I am not just the owner of Footballfigures.com but I am a dedicated player, too! Like anyone who loves to compete, if the competiton is to my liking, I will be there! I have limited time but much is dedicated to miniature football. I get a tickle out of Don "Old School" Smith having to sit back and watch and host a tournament. Do you know how bad this guy wants to compete? No one knows FF.COM quite like I do and being given the opportunity to play on that stage (TTQB, kicker, team created in own image) would give me the opportunity to stand up for my product like no other manufacturer. I always have understood there must be structure, rules, etc., but what I speak of would definitely be within the framework of the event.

But to get a smorgasboard of all the styles of play under one tent and be able to go from venue to venue, sampling the flavors of miniature football, is as finger-lickin' good as Memphis Bar-be-Que in the summer time! And Oh heck yeah, I want that chance to squelch rumors, inuendos, and halves-truths as I am sure many others would want too.

Reg