Hook'em
 

The Longhorns are in! We just paid our registration fees and we're ready! Hook'em Horns!!!!

Good to have a champion such as your self, come out to Cali to run some EF/MF. Looking forward to getting on the board wit dem Horns.

Colorado Buffaloes Going Out To Cali
 

West side ride,


I am definetly coming. I have not been on the computer that much at home to sign up but im 100% in the building. Put my name on that list with colorado. I will send the $20 tonight or tomorrow night. I'm trying to get ravenmaniac to come with the ALABAMA CRIMSON TIDE !!!!!!!!

LETS MAKE THIS A BIG EVENT.

Lets all chip in a certain amount of (snaps) as they call it on the west side and get a really nice food spread layed out in there. (i'M TALIKNG THE WORKS !)

LETS GO HERE, IT WILL BE TIME TO GET IT ON SOON ENOUGH


LOOK MOM, IM THROWING UP THE W

MANTARAYDRE

Buffs mos def on the list. I hope the Tide decides to ride out to the westSIDE!

Mantaray-Dre, I am looking forward to meeting you. Glad to see you making the trip.

Jimboooo thanks for the ideas! We definately have to nail down the option. These are some good ideas, i.e 1 foot in bounds, OT 1 possession from the 25 yard line, etc.

I like the idea of #1 (3rb's in the backfield) but this one worries me. The reason is because it is not just a simple change to the offense, there would have to be changes allowed for the defense in order to even things out. Some possibilities would be to allow stacking on defense (which would probably get you housed) or to allow 2 audibles on defense since the O would get to move 4 men as opposed to 3.

I know this was being considered for the CBSMF but nothing had been decided in stone. We are open to suggestions on this as well as pivoting or not pivoting on the option...and any other "college like" rules

We will test some of the ideas out over the next few weeks...but we are also considering that the rules to be really close to the CBSMF rules so that this tourney also functions as a warm up for those coaches participating in both.

Mike...got the ends. When you get a chance go to the site and register as well. This will enable us to capture your contact info, team, shirt size, etc.

Vince, are you gonna paint some Spartans and come out or what?!! I know your prefer pro...but I also know you LOOOOVE miniature football. Holla!

DMC

Jimbo,
I appreciate your willingness to help out with this tourney. You will definitely be getting a call from me. You have given some great suggestions. We still have to work out the QB Option. I'm excited to play college rules. After scrimmaging you (Jimbo) using the wide hashmarks, definitely gave the game a different feel than playing pro. We will actually be playing college football...instead of playing the same old way, just with teams painted in college uniforms.

Great!
 

Glad you got the registration fee! I'll register today! Hey Jimbo great job! I was just speaking with Reg on this the other day. I thought that it would be important to generate a rule set that would give us the college feel of things. Allowing us to run 3 backs in the backfield, the option and the option read. The rules definetly have to be tweaked for this. One of our concerns was that we didn't want to take away the intensity of the TSO rules and from what I can see, multiple stops will have to be implimeneted in order to accomodate an option and option read offense. I have a great option read play that I created with the Longhorns but it is a multi stop play and takes a bit of time which slows the game down a little. We definetly need to create a committee for the CBSMF rules so that these things can be hammered out!

I also like the idea of the receiver with 1 foot in rule that you thought of! BRILLIANT!!! The only problem with that is that most sets aren't large enough and have very little out of bounds space. Therefore, theoretically you're always going to be eligible. The playing surface needs to have a large enough out of bounds space that would allow the receiver to actually go completely out of bounds in order for this rule to work I think.

I'm excited though and with Reg and Jimbo's ideas coupled with the help of Eric & Dave, I know the country is about to be set fire with the emergence of our college leagues and tournaments.

The Rules are Established
 

but the option has not been finalized. I was waiting on Steve Martin and Greg Hardmon to show their video on it. I liked Jimbo's interpretation alot because it did not look like it had much time taken away from the play. He did a fullback read but that option showed 4 possible scenarios.

1: Fullback Handoff
2: QB keeper
3. Tailback pitch
4: QB dropback

I guess I am concerned with the option in that time factors are important. What if a team utilizes the option on every play? He will not be able to get in as many plays as in pro set formations from the college ranks.

Another rule that was to be considered was one that Beenutt and I had discussed. I'll wait for more information on that.

But the rules are pretty much set now. I think we've had about 5-6 rules added to give flava to this. But the basic foundation is there but before the rules can be written completely, we need that information.

Reginald

The QB Option (The QB can block, or run)
 

I think the option can work with 3 men in the back field. If the QB is the ball carrier at the start of the play, he should be allowed to pitch (option) the ball to either RB, as long as they are within a certain distance (3-5yds) of the QB. The coach should not be allowed to physically adjust the RB's, they should run the way they are tweaked to run...the defense should not be allowed to adjust, unless the ball carrier advances the ball at least 10 yds. from the line of scrimmage. I think by doing things this way, we stay within the TSO rule set, and the defense can still compete with only moving one man on the audible.

I can't wait to see...
 

Three are some teams that run the option every play in college football. I know we are playing MF but if we're trying to add that element then somehow we have to try and impliment. College games don't seem to get in as many plays as the pro's anyhow. Especially when ball control teams are playing, i.e. teams that run the ball 90% of the time (option teams). Etc. I'm all for the welfare of the ruleset and the league but I'd really like to feel the college flavor. Will reverse plays be allowed? there is so much more trickery in the college game than in the pr leagues. Every game won't feature option teams and on those games we will very well be able to reach almost 100 plays. Just my opinion.

For every reaction, there is a reaction
 

Eric,

I like the option but I think you put the defense at a total disadvantage if you do not allow that player to react to the pitch. In the Shootout scheme, if a ball is transferred anywhere during a play, the defender always has had the option to react to that play.

I know you want that pitch man to be able to get yardage and yes, if the defender is zoning, that particular defender should be okay for that play but the defender has always reacted in the Shootout scheme when the ball transfers.

Just an opinion. Like I said, I like what you're talking about but that's my main concern is putting the defenders at a big disadvantage. You know the D is always at a disadvantage.

Reg

Hey Reg
 

here is an idea. React all unengaged players to the pitch man with the exception of the guy who takes the QB...

For example. Most likely your swooper would be the guy flying around end. At this point the offense should stop the set in fear that the QB would be getting hit by the swooper on the option play. The offense would then say pitch. However, in reality that end would not stop coming and the QB would take a good lick on the pitch. If you allow the swooper coming around end to react he would make the play 90% of the time which would be unlike reality. Just a suggestion on how to handle the ball transfer reactions. This will also allow the RB to pass the ball after the pitch but before he gets to the line of scrimmage. However, he should not be able to use his starting TTQB to attempt the pass. His 3rd team TTQB should be attempting the pass should this be his option.

Reg,
What I am basically trying to describe is a QB roll with a option to pitch the ball to a RB. The board is started with the QB rolling back (max of 15yds), or to the left or the right, flanked by RB's. The whole time the board is on and the defense is in pursuit. The offense must stop the board to determine whether or not to pass, pitch , or scramble. If the offensive coach decides to pitch the ball, then the defense is allowed to react after the ball is advanced 10yds. from the los. If the QB scrambles, then the defense can read & react immediately. I hear where you're coming from Reg...I don't want the defense to be at a disadvantage either. I think to run the option this way will take about as long as a QB roll out. Lets try this with the defense adjusting on the pitch, and without, then post the results of what we found, and then suggest the best, or most fair way of doing this without totally exploiting the defenses. I also like to experiment with Mikes' ideas...adjusting all un-engaged players on the pitch. Also, Mike mentioned the RB passing the ball after being optioned to...it would cut down on confusion if the defense provided the QB for the offense (RB) to pass with. What do you guys think?

Can we show this on video?
 

Can you and Coach Champion show this on video of the different scenarios. If Jimbo can show a few other scenarios as well, that will help. Then there is LL Cool Greg and Steve's version and maybe an informed decision can be made.

I just question options because if you are OU, you just may want to pattern the Sooners of the 70's and 80's with Jamel Holloway running the bone. In MF, that would take time unless a time limit was placed (use that passing time) on the time it can be done in.

Reg

You cats have some great ideas! Ya'll getting me pumped!

Reg, where are you with the wishbone, right now is it included or excluded. If included how many adjustments does the D get?

Mike, I like your idea about not being able to angle the defensive man that takes the QB on the pitch...its like real college football...the QB gets blown up on the pitch! What if we just said that the closest defensive man to the QB can not be angled as opposed to the one designated to defend the QB. My reasoning is so the defensive coach can't point out some other guy away from the play as his guy designated for the QB and then angle the guy right there to make the tackle.

Also I have an additional suggestion to the half back pass...You said use the third string passer, Eric suggested that the defense provide a passer. My suggestion would be that tournament officials provide an "artificial QB" for everyone to use on halfback passes. My reasoning is so the Offensive coach can't lie about the passer being his third string and the Defensive coach can't provide a junk QB that he knows throws way to the left.:eek:

I probably sound paranoid...but I'm just trying to remove any areas where guys can cheat.

Great ideas, keep them coming!

DMC

David...
 

Great Question! Here is how I see it! We are trying to make this thing as realistic as possible right? Here is the best scenario I think...

On option plays the option side DB normally gets locked up man 2 man with the receiver and is taught to fight off the block and take the pitch man while the safety picks up the receiver. Well in EFL the defense is going to have to decide weather to bring the safety up to take the pitch man and possibly get burned deep or bring the safety up as if to attack the pitch man and fall back into coverage.

With this scenario you would angle all unengaged players on defense once the board is stopped to make the pitch. However, the decision to pitch comes after the defensive adjustments and then after 10 yards the defense would get a second adjustment.

here is the reason why you do it this way. Well coached players are coached to stick with their assignments and/or make a decision and stick with that decision. The QB normally makes his decision to pitch or run after the defense has committed one way or the other. This gives you the "ball fake" effect, you only need one stop and it doesn't take any extra time. If you run your defense right, under this format the option will have the same success rate as a sweep around end under the TSO stye rules it will just give you the triple threat option of pitching, passing or running opposed to just running the sweep outright.

This scenario allows the defense the absolute best way to defend the option. while still giving the option a realistic chance to be successful!

However, because of the audible the defense will not be able to load to one side to protect option left because if I audible to option right under this style of play the defense only gets one move. Very tricky but very doable!

Man this is a great Idea! I never thought of it this way. Talk about coaching...So the O stops the board, the D angles to defend the QB, pitchman, receivers downfield, whatever, etc, and then the O gets do decide what to do, keep, pitch or pass. Sounds great...I have to try this.

The best thing about this is that it is consistent with the current roll out rule...when the O stops the board, if he decides to let the QB keep the D angles at that point...the only difference is that there is no second adjustment after 10 yards. Timing wise it should be about the same as when you roll your QB.

Great stuff Mike!

Waiting on the Big 10 Commissioner's Scenario
 

I know the Big 10 Commissioner, Greg Hardmon, said he will show this today (Sunday) as far as his version of an option play. I was talking with him about the option and when he played at Sag-Nasty, they ran the option all the time. Also, Big East Commissioner, Mozeek and I had some interesting discussions about the option too.

We discussed the time issue and which men to react within the allotted time frame. We discussed the 10 seconds when the board is stopped and the switch turned on. Also, what happens on the weakside of the D? Do you only concern yourself with who would be involved in the play on the left hand side of the D?

So these are two guys who's voices should be heard on this matter. We will allow for the 'Bone. If we can implement a double reverse with one transfer of the ball, show me and let's see if it works. Visual aids always help.

Mike, great breakdown of the option and the logic behind it. We will practice this play this upcoming week. Keep the chatter going on this scenario.

Reg

I am happier then ......
 

......a punk in boys in town!!!! Man this is exciting. Yo this is a great scenario because I brought this same question up to Reg several weeks back. After this conversation I would like to get the Audible thing discussed. Is it going to be 2 for 1, 3 for 1, 3 for 2, 4 for 2, 4 for 3. Offense is the leading number followed by the defense after the (FOR). I think because of the option the defense should be able to react accordinally. This topic should be shelved until the option discussions cease.

MIKE ROBERTSON nailed it! (The Option)
 

Mike!
Dave Campbell & I tried your idea for the option over the weekend, and it seemed to have worked. We ran it with the QB and 2 backs in the backfield (no full house backfield). On the option, the offense has 7 seconds to alert the defense of his intentions (whether or not he will pitch, or the QB will keep the ball). The defense can then adjust all un-engaged players, then the O will tell the D whether the QB will keep the ball, or pitch to an eligible RB ( RB must be beside, or behind the QB, & 3-5yds within the QB to receive the pitch).

If the offensive coach fails to alert the defense to adjust for the option within 7 seconds, then the D can adjust automatically, then again after a completed pass, & again after the receiver has gone 10 yds beyond the los. By giving the offense 7 seconds to decide whether or not to pitch, pass, or scramble puts pressure on the O to decide quickly, or give the D multiple opportunities to make adjustments. The adjustment scenarios are: (1) the offense tells the D to adjust within 7 seconds…the D knows that either the QB will keep, or pitch to the RB, so the D adjusts accordingly (If the ball is advanced 10yds pass the los, the D can adjust again). (2) The offense fails to tell the D to adjust with in 7 seconds…the D adjusts for the option…if the offense decides to pass, and the pass is completed, the D adjusts again (If the ball is advanced 10yds pass the los, the D can adjust again). I agree with doing it this way because it is consistent with the TSO Rules, and the D still only gets to move one man on the audible.

ERob, RJ has an interesting point
 

Yall know this style puts pressure on the D but we also know we like scoring in this style.

The question of 2-1, 3-1, 3-2, 4-2, should definitely be looked at. Colleges score at great clips so we do want to keep the exciting element of scoring.

Yall need to table this also with the Big 10 Commissioner (Greg Hardmon) and Morgan (Big East) and maybe Geno. I think Beenutt is cool with whatever decision on the option and Biglock is as well but I have not discussed this with Geno.

Reginald

correct me if I'm wrong E...

I understood what we did as this: (I added my additions in red)

The adjustment scenarios are: (1) the offense either calls the receiver and throws the ball or tells the D to adjust within 7 seconds…the D knows that either the QB will keep, pitch to the RB, or still possibly pass, so the D adjusts accordingly (If the ball is advanced 10yds pass the los, the D can adjust again). (2) The offense fails to tell the D to adjust with in 7 seconds…the D adjusts for the option…if the offense decides to pass, and the pass is completed, the D adjusts again, if the pass is completed (If the ball is advanced 10yds pass the los, on a pitch or QB keeper, not on a completed pass, the D can adjust again).

Reg, RJ nothing has been set in stone, we are still open to other scenarios. But I have to say that this one works well, was fun to play and it is consistent with the TSO ruleset. We want to try to get these rules nailed down in time for us to play them at the next Open Run and so coaches can have at least a month practice them. We still want to hear from the other coaches with option rules and coaches with input on the wishbone as it pertains to the TSO ruleset.

DMC

My Bad.. (david)you Are Correct Sir
 

Dave, what you described is correct. I left out some key elements in my description which would have given the D xtra adjustments. Thanx for catching that.

As Dave said, nothing has been set in stone, we are still open to other scenarios. But I have to say that this one works well, was fun to play and it is consistent with the TSO ruleset. We want to try to get these rules nailed down in time for us to play them at the next Open Run and so coaches can have at least a month practice them. We still want to hear from the other coaches with option rules and coaches with input on the wishbone as it pertains to the TSO ruleset.

Reg, if you talk with these guys, have them (Big 10 Commissioner (Greg Hardmon) and Morgan (Big East) and maybe Geno) chime in on this.
Thanx!

You guys got it....
 

This is almost exactly how I intended for it to be played out when I thought of it. The only element that I did not think of was the 7 seconds to tell the defense pitch or run and if no decision was made then the defense would get more time to adjust for the pitch and adjust again if the offense decides to pass.

Here is how I played it. I took what I thought was the least amount of time and what I thought was the most efficient and it worked great!

Once the option is ran and the board is stopped the offensive pass clock should start automatically! In the DFW its a 20 second pass clock. As the clock is going the offense is scanning the field for open receivers. The offense needs to make a decision to pass, pitch or run within that 20 seconds.

If the offense decides to pitch or run that is all that needs to be stated, "pitch or run". A decision to do either is not made until the defense is through adjusting. After the offensive coach says "pitch or run" the defense would automatically adjust to defend whatever they saw on the field would be the best option for the defense. The offense would not determine whether it was going to be QB keeper or a pitch until the defense was finished adjusting. If the offense does not say "pitch or run" before the 20 second pass clock is up it should be an automatic QB keeper. If it was a pass the defense would not get any adjustments until after the completion.

Why would the offense need to wait 7 seconds to state pass and even more time for the defensive adjustment to decide to pass. This waste very valuable time and gives the offense 7 additional seconds plus defensive adjustment time and pass clock time (47 seconds if you use DFW time) to scan the field and make an attempt creating another disadvantage for the defense.

This will be a very effective play if run correctly. As for the audible, I think we need to go with the 4 for 2. The TSO rules do not allow a wishbone backfield but with the college element it does so if the offense gets one extra guy the so should the defense.

Here is the other scenario on the 4 for 2. Under the current rule set the defense gets to audible 1 guy regardless if the offense audibles 1, 2 or 3. With the wishbone being an option the defense should get to audible 2 as well regardless if the offense audible 1, 2, 3 or 4. If not people will just flop side with only 2 of the backs in a wishbone set which will cripple the defense if they are only allowed to move the 1.

I'm late, but
 

How will the pitch be done? Will the qb have to throw the ball back to the back as if the was in the open field on the other side of the LOS? If so, what if the pass is incomplete, fumble? out of bounds? Placement of the ball?
Just wondering. When we allowed pitches in the ACEFL it was a pass back to the RB using a TTQ, if the pass was incomplete-the ball was going backwards so it became a fumble-the defense was allowed to adjust to recover and the board was turned on-first top touch recovered the ball. If the pitch when out of bounds, the play was dead and the new LOS was at point.
john

Mike, we're saying pretty much exactly the same thing...minus the 7 sec.
 

[quote=Mike Robertson;43020]If the offense decides to pitch or run that is all that needs to be stated, "pitch or run". A decision to do either is not made until the defense is through adjusting. After the offensive coach says "pitch or run" the defense would automatically adjust to defend whatever they saw on the field would be the best option for the defense. The offense would not determine whether it was going to be QB keeper or a pitch until the defense was finished adjusting. If the offense does not say "pitch or run" before the 20 second pass clock is up it should be an automatic QB keeper. If it was a pass the defense would not get any adjustments until after the completion.
QUOTE]
You may have a point in starting the pass clock when the set is stopped. That would surly make the O swift in making up its' mind on what to do. The reason for the 7 seconds was so that the offense could get the full 20 second pass clock if they decided to pass instead of pitch. If the O elected to pass, then the 20sec. clock would start. I'm glad you pointed out that the O would get an additional 7 sec. We ran the plays, but did not take into account that the pass clock should start time the set is stoped. We plan on going the whole 9 at the next Open Run, clocks and everything.

Mr. Rowan
 

The pitch would happen automatically as long as the pitch man is in the base and a half pitch zone and the pitch zone is not occupied by a defender. The box would dictate if a fumble had occured.

If we allow pitching with the TTQB, as bad as a passer I am there would be a lot of fumbles. Lol. Also, the yardage loss on the pitch would be too substantial if a TTQB was to miss the pitch.

One rule the LAEFL uses is that only 2 of the 3 backfield players can be pointed in the same direction at the start of the play. That was put in place to avoid the "rugby scrum" play, with the QB and 2 RBs plowing up the middle. Is that rule still in force with the Option Play? I would love to see option plays like FB up the middle, QB and RB around end. Or even 3 players off tackle/end. I just don't like tight-line, 3-up-the-gut MF. Maybe just a simple rule that says "at least one backfield player must be pointed outside the tackles".

Some Corrections
 

WEST SIDE COACHES



On the participants my last name is spelled " COGDELL' !!!!!!!!!! Also there was no "x" indicating i registered and i did.



THANKS

MANTARAYDRE

Great points Mike. This is why we need to flesh this out some more. I was not considering an additional 7 seconds, it was just 7 seconds for the D to adjust but we didn't scrimmage with clocks.

When we write this stuff it can get confusing, so let me try to discect the play way I understand it as clear as possible. Then Mike and Eric, yall can correct me where I'm wrong...

On the option play the O has the switch at the start of the play, when he stops the switch:

1. the pass clock starts and
2. He passes the ball down field to an identified receiver or running back or
3. He tells the defensive coach to adjust (when the D adjusts the pass clock stops just like on a scramble and the D gets 7 seconds)

After the defensive coach adjusts the play resumes and the pass clock resumes. At the point the O decides to:

1. Let the QB keep the ball or
2. Pitch the ball (automatically) to a RB that is within range of, behind, and with a clear path to the QB or
3. Pass the ball down field to a receiver or running back (Should this option still be available at this point?)

If the QB keeps or the ball is pitched the D angles again after a ten yard gain. If a pass is completed the D angles on the completion with no further adjustments.


This is how I understand it. Now please chime in with corrections/comments.

Dre, sorry about the X in registration, that was a mistake. Your registration only had Mantaray Dre as opposed to your real name so I didn't know how to spell it...what's the correct spelling.

DMC

I say no. He had his chance to pass and decided not to. The offense should not be able to watch how the defense adjusts and then decide to pass from there. Deciding whether to pitch or not, that makes sense. But for the QB to set up and throw the ball, that time has passed, IMHO.

Yes, I agree David.

Ned, I think that this is a good thing because it allows the offense all of the options that would be available in real football, & the pass clock starts when the field stops, so the QB should still have the option to pass (like a roll out). The defense must make its adjustments wisely, to cover the run as well as the pass, that is the reason the D gets to adjust on the option, then again if the pass is completed. Also, just as in real football, it would be difficult for the QB to complete a pass clear across the field, without the ball being batted down, or picked off.

David & Eric
 

Everything sounds good except it seems that 1 item is still not clear.

Once the set is stopped the pass clock starts. If the offense says "pitch or run" the option to pass is gone.

stopping the pass clock, allowing the defense to adjust gives the offense time to gather himself, scan the field and decide where he is going with the pass all the while the pass clock is stopped. Not very fair.

If he does not pass on the initial stoppage the only options left are to pitch or run which will be decided after the defensive adjustments.

Mike,
I think it is just like a QB Scramble when the D gets to adjust, then the O gets to scan the field field just as it will be with the option. I don't think 7 seconds will give a huge advantage to the O. The O must take into account the adjustments made by the Defense, therefore the advantage gained is minimal. I think you were correct in pointing out that the 7 seconds for adjustments by the Defense should not be taken before the 20 sec clock is activated, but it should start when the set stops for the option, pass, or QB keeper. I think it is up to the D to make their adjustments quickly due to the running clock, and as you pointed out...not giving xtra time for the O to pick them apart. I think David & I initially wanted to give the D 7 seconds to adjust before the pass clock was started, but you pointed out that the O should be on the clock when the set is stoped.

I agree that the pass should be part of the option play. I just think that once the board stops and the offense doesn't pass and the defense adjusts, the pass should be off the table at that point. It keeps things simple, and as Mike says, it prevents the offense from finding a receiver after the fact (while the defense is adjusting).

Not a big deal, just my opinion. It'll be good either way.

Here is the difference...
 

On the scramble rule normally 2 things happen the offense is either trying to get a better angle on a receiver or he is heavily pressured by the defense and he wants to scramble away from them. Both scenarios allow for the board to be turn on & then off a second time to make a pass attempt or a decision to run.

On the option after the defensive adjustment their is no more stoppages of the board until contact, unless its a pitch or run then after 10 yards the board stops for the defensive adjustment.

Here is why it wouldn't work the other way. Most people when pressured don't see all the receivers. Lets say for instance...

The option play starts. I run to the left and stop the set. The pass clock starts...20, 19, 18, 17. My intent was yo pass because the pitch man looks liike he will be tackled and I don't have a good read on the swooper to QB keep it. I spot an open receiver but I can't find my TTQB. At this time, I tell the the defense to adjust which will stop the clock at about 12 seconds. Now the defense has time to adjust. Now, while the time is ticking on the defense I have located my TTQB and have had time to gather myself and get in position to make the pass all before the defense time runs out. now my 12 seconds begin and I'm composed and I hit the pass.

Now in reality what QB has that kind of time? We must keep the pressure on the QB. Remember, he is running the option. A play that generally runs into the teeth of the defense. Very little time to make a decision. It should be a pressure pass!

Besides the defense normally needs more than 7 seconds for an adjustment. When you're turning dials 7 seconds is not enough time. We use 20 in the DFW league.

Just my thoughts!

I think I see what you guys are saying.
Ned & Mike, you're both saying that if you don't call your receiver when you stop the board initially, then the QB must keep the ball, or pitch it to an open RB. He is not allowed to pass. Correct? I hear you both loud and clear. Reg is right, we need to show a video. By showing a visual, it is easier to show why we do things a certain way. When David & I scrimmaged doing things the way we have been describing in these posts, there was no unfair advantage. Actually the set had to be stoped so quickly, due to the defensive pursuit, there were very few choices when it came to passing. Mike, & Ned, why don't you guys run some plays using the option, and tell me what you come up with...run the option with and without the opportunity to pass the ball after the pass clock is stoped. LMK, interested in what you guys find.

How about this...
 

I don't have access to video or cam. So I can't post my findings. However, I've run it thousands of ways already that is how I was able to come up with the origina scenario.

I will be in LA Thursday the 11th. 2 nights before the College tourney. I can show you guys then what I'm talking about!

Mike and I will be able ...
 

to do some videoing of this in Virginia this weekend. I will be his guinea pig and he can just run it on me. We will put it on film and show it later.

Reg