I agree
 

Well said !

If someone is...
 

...ratting us out, then the karma will be sent their way at some point. Life is just like that.

I Woke up thinking
 

about this. I think this problem will continue to come up, so we need to have a way of handling it. Like was said above, it is all in how things are presented.

What I was wondering is: did anyone ever let the new vendor(s) know what the rules are, or how to set up thier sites to avoid problems?

I try to always confont a person I have a problem with before ever taking it to someone else. Who ever contacted the NFL should have contacted the vendor first and let them know what they were doing was going to cause a problem, and especially if they were truly doing so to protect the MFCA.

I think in the future we need to let vendors know these things, and help them avoid the conflict.

I want to eventually build a site just to show my work, but I don't know what is allowed and what isn't. Can I show fully painted teams with logos if I am not selling them? Can I sell painted teams as long as I don't sell "NFL" teams, or do I have to loose any evidence of logos as soon as I sell something. I think it would be good for all of us to know how the rules actually work.

We all need to work togther on these things, even though some people are in business competition. I know all's fair in love, war , and business, but we should still try to deal with things fairly within our ranks.

Best wishes to all on this,
Michael

Here is what I can tell you in as short an answer as I can put together.
Displaying items online that include any form of trademarked or copyrighted logo as a collection or as your own property generally does not create a problem, however, they can still insist that the logos be blurred out or removed. The moment you turn it into a business venture, offer the said items for sale or attempt to make a profit using others trademarked artwork you are breaking the law and are subject to penalties.

This is why we have been so adamant about TRADING only in the Trading forum. The trading forum is not completely safe either, even though it can only be viewed by MFCA Members. The BOD is looking at our sponsorship program and may need to revise who can be involved in it or if we will continue it at all as vendors such as Cowboy Mike and Rollerboards do put themselves at risk.

One word of advise is to never imply or outwardly say that an item is for sale or has been sold.

Backstabbers and legalities!
 

I don't know why this thread was retrieved thus continuing a raging debate with no solution.

Sure we should have someone post some information for vendors for copyright protections like people do sculpting, tweaking, and the like. You established vendors need to work at that end. I for one am sick of hearing how people have to endure, or why me, or who's that dirty dog, or even posting backstabber songs. Why don't some of you older vendors, who can't even speak to one another, get together so that the new genration of vendors don't get caught up in this stupidity?

If you place a post on this forum about being called by the NFL, NCAA, or even the friggin' AFL then you should state the nature of the call, what was required for compliance, what action you took, and the results. Now, In Rip's case I remember it happening and the actions he took. In one word, "Exemplary". Now other vendors have been called dozens of times and continue to try to erase the line drawn in the sand. Then, they are on this forum complaining about the fact that they are showing, advertising, then selling the brand without a license. To date, I know of no one being sued, just told to cease, desist, or slightly alter your product.

My friend Steve went to MSU. His stadium, teams, bands, cheerleaders, are all homage to his favorite team, his college days, yet they are his and his alone. Now if Steve starts to sell these things on Ebay then he has violated the NCAA copyright technically. Some hater sees the item on Ebay, and is mad at Steve for something that happened 15 years ago like some of these vendors, then they have a right to call because of the violation.
In other words, like RIP said, if you should not be doing it, then don't complain when you are caught with your hand in the cookie jar.

Not that anyone has been the example of integrity with this, but you are giving the haters the dime to drop yourselves.

The worst part is now the calls are being made by those who have done so much harm to their credibility that they can't show their faces without being the subject of an inquisition from the membership. They may be members, but they have been ostracized by the membership so they seek to destroy the MFCA altogether. Take the emotion out of your thoughts and ask yourself why someone would have to make sure it is known that a member of the MFCA made this complaint? If that individual were protecting the interest of the MFCA then why point the licensing people to our site. Stop pointing fingers and logically approach this and you will clearly see whomever the caller they don't like the MFCA or it's members. Conquer and divide. As an example what has Beenutt ever done to anyone?, or CowboyMike? Get my pont!

As a youngster in our league always says, "ONE"!

Lastly, go with established vendors. If it sounds too good to be true then it is.


Just my thoughts.

ken right on point.
 

I honestly think anyone who knows of our community and is an outsider to membership, have free range to do anything negative. They could have a third party doing the calling and website directing so the trail never leads to them. Feels strange not seeing beenuts website. There are two parts to this.

I must agree with the NFL NOT WANTING UNLICENSED parties flaunting their brand.THIS IS BUSINESS FOR THEM. It's not just us, It's everyone who flaunts there brand. same principal as people downloading songs and ticking off the artist. It may be hard for you guys to hear but we are using something that is not ours, plain and simple. JZ, hip hop mogul has 40/40 clubs in various cities. 40/40 is the name he came up with. Big poppy of the boston redsox decides to open a club in the dominican replublic and name it FORTY/FORTY. His argument is he spelled out the word. Jz is ticked off and is suing him over the name. I think big poppy had to shut it down. WHY WOULD HE NAME A CLUB THE SAME NAME AS JZ'S. dOES HE THINK JZ IS STUPID. NOW LOOK.

We must understand this happens everyday in all business. We dont see it because we are just trying to have fun with our favorite teams. Image licensing is a billion dollar business. They seek business, we seek fun.
They could look at us as minor advertisment but they wont. Think of yourself making a hit record and came across a site where you saw thousands of free downloads of your song. would you make them stop, or would you let them continue on ?

NOW !!!!!!!!! We would never have to worry about a thing IF WE ALL DESIGNED OUR OWN TEAMS AND FIELDS AND MARKETED THE MFCA THAT WAY. Thats the first thing i did when i came back. I first decided what image of a team i wanted to portray. I thought of the mantarays. I sent mike beal designs on what i wanted my logos to look like and we worked from there.
NEXT, i called reg rutledge, i sent him designs on how i wanted a mantaray field to look like. FIELD IS ON HIS FF.NET WEBSITE. I now have four different mantaray teams and looking to make ten. I take pride in those teams the most because it is something i designed. Im currently working on a league with unique teams only. The approach is similar to ARENA, USFL,CFL, SEMI PRO. make your own unique league. The arena teams have some sweet logos.
No one has to be held hostage to nfl and college teams. Wolf can make designs for logos 1 2 3 and have them shrunk down for the decal makers.

You can play with your NFL teams privately, and market your unique team publicly. NO HASSLE WHAT SO EVER.

part 2, Whom ever has that much energy to go out of there way to tell the nfl about what someone is doing probably has nothing else in his life. If he did that, what else has he done over the years. loyalty runs deep in my land. once you cross the picket line, YOUR NEVER LOOKED UPON THE SAME.
Thats for all the other sneaky little stuff that goes on here and elsewhere.
I do have a list, i may smile in your direction, BUT YOUR ON THAT WATCH LIST BIG TIME. its a shame it is growing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

make some teams
MANTARAYDRE

Really a separate issue.....
 

.... from the character of our MFCA members, but I think we are taking the rights of the NFL and the NCAA a little too far. I never would have imagined we had so many trademark attorneys in the MFCA. Who is mass producing licensed products in the hobby anyway?

But Andre has a point, perhaps we could start developing our own teams, logos and marks and trademark some of our own stuff.... That way we eliminate the NFL and the NCAA from the picture and hopefully the snitches. As stated, some coaches have already done this; like Andre's team or the Black College Allstars out West.

Next season I may be "Sparty" or something like that with our own look separate from the University.

This separation could also pave the way for more commercial endeavors for our leagues that may help us to keep the hobby alive....

Not arguing, but I am curious about the statement regarding taking the rights of the NFL and the NCAA too far. Can you clarify what that means? My understanding is that the NFL,the NCAA and the college teams pretty much have 100% say of what they find acceptable and will allow. If they come on this site and find logos in use whether for sale or not, they could ask us to remove them. If we do, all is fine, if we don't they can take legal action to whatever level they choose to. This is why it is so important that we keep our forum clean, basically free of controversy and present ourselves in the best of lights. Honestly, the less the MFCA name is brought up in their offices, the better. That is what truly worries me about someone taking it upon themselves to report another person on our site to the "powers" in the name of the MFCA. If we become a nuisance to them, they will not blink an eye or shed one tear in telling us to shut down. We are a flyspeck in the big picture, but fly specks that land on their $100 T-Bone Steak dinner start to become an issue and get sent back to the kitchen.

STEVE JUST SWITCH IT A LITTLE.
 

STEVE,

wHAT TOWN/CITY/NEIGHBORHOOD in michigan do you live. Just change it a little. If you cant think of a logo just put numbers or a fancy s on the helmets. call them the " SPARTMEN" INSTEAD OF SPARTANS.

FLYNT SPARTMEN

GRAND RAPIDS SPARTMEN

USE THE SAME COLORS BUT MAYBE ADD BLACK PANTS OR SO.

OFCOURSE NEW FIELD COVER. YOUR SET UP IS NICE WITH THE TV NAND EVERYTHING. This is just to call them your own and avoid future hassles.
when you play youmcan advertise as the spartmen. But play with you know who unless it is on tv. I honestly think it is going to tick the nfl off if they ever saw a game streamed over the internet. It will just make them ask another question.
national high volts make there own teams. reveena al makes his own teams. Some coaches wanted to start a league with self made teams in the past.
I think it is a smart thing to do at least as a back up plan. i think we should have a back up just in case we are ever asked to shut down. I hope that day never comes.
spar-trek !!!!!!!!

mantaraydre

Wolf, I am by no means a Patent-Trademark attorney. I will leave that to the experts on this forum. But I have has some experience on a case with copyright/trademark issues and fair use doctrines. In general, a trademark is a protection afforded by act of congress to protect the commercial intrests of the holder to control the use of such mark for the purpose of trade, or to induce the sale of goods and services; and also to protect the consfusion mistake and attempts to decieve.

However,the law also protects non-economic use, free speech and the use of copywritten/trademarked material for parody, education to promote social and poloitcal ideas.