Universal Rule Set
 

Not a can of worms nor whup-ace, not designed to enrage and bring forth riot,

but a simple poll, I'm curious 'can it be done?'

1 Rule Set...
Universal

ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn

Why...
 

Because it makes sense.

It would be portable.

Think of it - when guys decide to go to a tourney or join a league the HAVE decided to play by that ONE rules set - not their own that they bring with them.

If they don't like that style they don't do it.

It can be done.

1 Rule Set
 

No...not yet. There's not enough incentive. Guys like playing their way in their regions. That's not a bad thing for a niche hobby like we are.

At this point, there's not enough of a carrot/motivation to yield to a governing board...there's no:

1) Recognized vs Unrecognized (i.e. if you accomplished something using a different rule set, it is unrecognized...so what at this point)

2) Movement of all major tourneys toward one set: As long as the "majors" are playing differently, why shouldn't the regions/leagues.

3) TV or major incentive to adapt to a certain style of play

4) Teeth with the governing body...the governing body is trying to unify to promote the hobby...that's a different mission than what you are seeking. One approach is inclusive...the other has pieces of exclusivity in it.

As said in an earlier post, I think the #3 reason will drive people to a certain style - de facto...but aside from that I don't think this comes from the bottom up. Imagine telling Reg that wins with the Shootout Style aren't valid or telling Jimbo that wins with a divider aren't recognized or telling Raiderman that wins with the High Voltage Passing method aren't counted or telling Jimmy D that his win at Miggle wasn't real because they didn't allow X figures. None of those things could or should happen...but until then there's no way that you'll get parties with such a strong opinion and at times financial motivation (the manufacturers) to agree.

Perhaps...
 

a set of standard definitions from every style of play or a glossary of all of our terms (east to west, north to south) would be something most can stomach. That way, everything is inclusive. At the same time, we continue to recognize and accept the various difference styles of play from local leagues to small and large scale tournaments.


So, yes I do agree, but to an extent.


-Adrian-

I said YES
 

because I would like to build one team and only have to weary about one team. Playing in multiple leagues like I do, I have to spread the wealth around in stead of putting everything into one team. I would like to see one weight limit (4.0) it easy to add weight then it is to take it off. But if the limit is 3.2/3.3, I would support that as well.

Brian

It Can Work..... If
 

A universal rule set can work provided that all equipment is allowed and the weight is kept around 4.5 and 5.0g. I say the weight should be around that mark because of customizing and the different types of bases that are in the hobby. Along with that, if coaches around the hobby drop their petty issues or at least leave them at home, it can work.

Maurice
The Electric Coach

I think its a good idea
 

however, I believe a sticking point could be, timed stoppages versus no stoppages. I believe, and prefer to play with stoppages.

Iniversal with "house" rules
 

I have been giving the ruleset dilema alot of thought lately, and I think that the MFCA could adopt a standard ruleset that is inclusive of much of the variety that is out there.

I think what could be done is set up categories with the different rule options for each circumstance and put it to a vote among the MFCA members and arrive at a compromise. This would give incentive to join the MFCA and it becomes democratic. Then perhaps members vote each year like the NFL owners to make adjustments and adapt to new options.

This would give a more advanced standard ruleset than the Miggle rules that most "newbies" know , which can then be promoted by the MFCA. Then each league can have "house" rules allowed as wanted.

I think the biggest problem is needing to qualify wins. I respect all of the different styles of play and don't see any being superior over the rest, just different ways of playing. I use a one stop rule with my younger kids, and then a 3 stop more advanced set with my 14yr old son who has played since he was 5 and has a better understanding.

Or, perhaps there could be a way to create diffrent classes of play, much like pro, all-pro, Madden, etc., with more advanced rule sets for each category. Then wins can be qualified per how advanced the rule set is. Lets say I have 3 wins in one category, 2 in another, and 1 in the next, and then each type counts toward that certain category, something like 3P, 2AP,1M . This also gives incentive for the guys who travel all over to play, as it will reflect the diversity of thier opponents. ( I realize we can't use Madden's name, its just an example)

These are just a few suggestions, and I mean no offense to anyone or any style.

I agree totally, nobody should have to drastically change physical charateristics of a team to play anywhere. That would at least be a start. I feel it would require a manufacturing adjustment that the current economy just won't allow.

I voted no. This has been tried before and caused feuds. It will just do the same thing again. Let folks play the style they favor. Here in Los Angeles, we play differently from the folks in Dallas...for example. Some similarities of course, but still there are differences.

It would be nice to have one standardized rule set, but each region/group has their own opinions on what that should look like.

We have enough trouble already.

For my two cents worth, I favor the Shootout system....but some stuff....like kicking with the board on....that is just not for me!!! I think the limitations on equipment in the Shootout system are fine, but here in L.A. we don't limit boat bases and cover corners....it hasn't destroyed the game out here.

NCMFL
 

Our rules are pretty open. You can use the SD or run a hurry up offense with no SD. You can use the TDQ or the passing sticks! If you guys could check our rule set out. They are a great mixture of the Brawl and Shootout systems!!!:D :) ltsplbll $cch$ thmbsp$ ppls$ ppcrn :chr: :fghttt: frstplc drl$$



Jeff

One rule set
 

I voted yes and as I have stated many times that is what I hoped the MFCA would do. Perhaps we need another governing body for this? Do I think it is ever going to happen? NO. As you can see from the previous posts - stipulations and "my style" or "our style" already being promoted over others.

I do have some suggestions but don't have the time tonight. Will post again later.

The Responsibility Is Ours
 

EFLfanatic,

You are correct about the stipulations coaches try to set referring to the style of their league. As far as looking to an outside party for help on this issue or any other issue involving electric football, I must disagree with you. We should never allow a non-electric football hobbyist to make decisions involving this hobby. All issues involving this hobby must be handled by us; the electric football community. Outsiders will not treat this hobby as if it were their own. There is no one more worthy of this hobby than true electric football hobbyists.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

That's the thing...
 

It will be difficult to come to an agreement on what should be included and what should not. Perhaps we should not worry about that and just move forward.

For some reason, I am concerned about the involment of the guys from the West Coast and Texas. I want them to be involved and well represented, but at the same time, I do understand if some are content with their particular rule-set and only that rule-set. Not trying to cause any problems fellas, but this is something I am truely concerned about.

Am I being selfish about having most, if not all, areas represented, involved and accepting of this idea? Or, should we not be too concerned and press forward on this and let the chips fall where they may?

I do believe that this can work, especially with the amount of knowledgeable and talented coaches we have as part of this community. You guys continue to amaze me with your accomplishments. It's no doubt if this can be done, I think it;s more of a question of how it will be accepted/supported by the community.

Let's just make it happen!

-Adrian-

Great point Adrian! it does not make sense not to make an attempt to have everyones input.

I would love to have this idea happen, and yes it has been tried before and for the majority of the east was play Rules 2000 at one time in the past. That rule set is still being played today in various altered forms.

I really like being able to play different styles of play. FOB, Shootout, ATT-2000, philly etc.. and the CBSMF and they all have been fun and present coaching situations that makes the game fun and Challenging for me, if not others in the leagues. They would have chime in with their thoughts.

But like Brian - having one team to use wherever would be cool, but you can doe that now. thmbsp$ thmbsp$

We need a set of rules in our hobby. This has been on the table for a LONG time........I guess we post on it once every five months then nothing....

Hey, most people want it based on the poll but if you don't join the rules committee to work on it with a serious effort, then you got no room to complain.

The committee is already there. They started on it months ago. But only 2 of the people who are on it have done any real work and NObody else has stepped to the plate.

You guys bring this up all the time but when its time to join to do the work, tumbleweeds rolling in a ghost town.

Sorry if this offends anyone, but that is the hard truth!

Wolf great point....
 

...........If we can all agree on using the

A. TTQB - Which originally came with the Tudor Game?
B. Clocks - Remember a clock came with the game that spun on the speed control.
B1. Set up clocks and passing clocks because folks take too long to make decisions. Football is a fast pace game. I myself don't have 5 hours to play one game.
C. 4.0 weight limit
D. No stoppages. When a player goes out of bounds in football he does just that. Way too much on this issue to go into on that one. I like the concept but not all cuts are made precise and not all passes are on the money to lead a receiver downfield
E. Last but not least "The Box". This adds the element of the game that is needed.

That’s a universal rule set fo yo ---!! If you look at it 5 out the 6 things listed are used by many leagues around the country. I have no issues about sticks but the original game came with a TTQB.

As far as the line of scrimmage play that is a big ordeal in itself. However when I played the real game as a kid through college, I never broke the huddle to see a wall up where I couldn't see what the other team was doing. When I made my defensive and offensive calls in high school I was able to make them before players got set. When I played that "Rover" position in a terrible 4-4-3 defense in Juco I was able to find the strong side and call out the alignment for the DB's.

I play in the shootout ruleset but there are some rules that I would like to see changed. No reuleset is perfect but anything is possible.

Just my two cents!!!

Hey Wolf
 

Let me know who to contact and I will definitely pitch in. Gladly sit down with them at the convention as well.

No tumbleweed here.

Circumstances
 

If one rule set was ever implemented, would it be required for all leagues and tournaments? Or would it apply to a specific tournament or event only? Currently there are different tournaments throughout the hobby. Each tournament has its own set of rules. If this hobby was presented to the public, what rule set would be used? If a handful of coaches were taken from each league throughout the hobby to put on a public demonstration, what rules would they play by? A single rule set would be functional within this circumstance. A single rule set will fail if it is mandated that all leagues and tournaments in the hobby play by it because you can’t dictate what people do in their private arenas.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

That's what I would like to know. We all know it cannot be forced on anyone to use. That will never work. So what does a new universal rule set achieve or what is the purpose? I doubt that the TSO or Miggle or the GLEFL or the Dixie League or any other is going to adopt it. At best, it becomes something that a new league or tourney either adopts or uses as a base to form their own rules. Maybe it becomes the official MFCA Rule Set for the final game at Convention, but beyond that what does a new rule set, set out to achieve? I'm not saying it isn't a good thing...I just need more insight as to the reasoning.

A single mandated rules set is also one that will be guaranteed to keep people away from events. I can give you an example. I like the TDQ for passing. I no longer use the TTQB....and I don't want to use it again. A standardized set might well choose to take away the tool I like and that will almost certainly keep me away from tournaments/rule sets that choose to keep me from using it.

Here in Los Angeles, we have very few limitations on equipment. 4.0 g standard weight. Boiled bases have not been allowed in the college league (but I am starting to think this shouldn't be the case....I think tweaking out here has come a long way and can compensate for those that don't have original frosties to boil) . We also don't allow grossly odd anatomy on your players....like the arms that can stretch out to 3 times normal...or the receiver who is twice as tall as the TTQB.....you know. We allow any number of boat bases, cover corners, frankenstein bases, ITZ dials etc. If you look at our stats/scores, nothing terribly unusual is happening to our games. I fear that a standardized set will outlaw many of the things we have come to embrace. It sucks the fun out of the game and many of the limitations people impose are simply because they are afraid of tools/tricks that might give someone else an edge. I think this stifles innovation and hurts the game.

So....for any universal ruleset to work for me....it would have to be very inclusive....and I fear that won't happen.

Then....there are those folks that like the multi-stop systems. They will be totally left in the cold and are likely to remain that way for quite some time. I wouldn't mind seeing some of their concepts implemented in our rules out here.....but I would be against too many stops. As it stands now, defenders can adjust to a run that goes over 10 yds in our league....but folks rarely stop the board for it. If you could also adjust unengaged blockers, that might be cool....adjusting the runner would probably break the system though.

MFCA Rule Set
 

Wolfe,
You said it. The rules are going to have to be set up around the MFCA. The MFCA’s plate is already full as it is with other responsibilities. I propose that these new rules be established by the summer of 2010. A committee of “sound” minded coaches must be assembled to begin establishing these rules. I can do it myself, but I don’t think the hobby will like what I will mandate. I would mandate rules such as front of base tackling, no pass simulation (use the TDQ or TTQB), all modern figures will be allowed, and customizing will be allowed, a weight ranging between 4.5g to 5.0g. I will keep out boiled bases because no one wants to have that. I like them, but I understand. Coaches reading this are saying, “EC is crazy”. Again you might not want me to come up with rules.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

EC
 

That's a good start, but we must understand that these would just be your suggestions/recommendations which are excellent.

The problem is, when it's all said and done, which rules do we keep and which rules do we not?

Any member that is part of this committee can not be discouraged if enough of thier ideas or wants are not accepted. To me that's one of the major sticking points to all of this.

I propose that we just submit and accept all ideas at first and then whittle it down as necessary. But, the direction of the proposed rule-set needs to be very clear and accepted by all involved.

-Adrian-

I Agree 100%
 

ABAX,

I agree entirely with what you are saying. I was simply giving some examples of what I would mandate. I am aware of the opinions of members around the hobby. Due to that, I know what they will accept or reject. An example would be no turning of beat corner backs. Coaches around the hobby don't want that.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

VIDEO MADE FOR COMMITTEE
 

Why cant each league that has at least 12 coaches or more present a video off there style of play. And let the committee put together playing rules for some league to try. The DSEFL play style is like Dixie with a little of SB Brawl rules and Burgess style. We tried this by looking at different aspect of game play. We like having to play more that one game when we meet. This should help the committee to come up with a style. I do think the committee should ask the top winnest tournament coaches to be a part of this process not league champion.

Ok, I’ve been keeping track of this whole thing, and there still seems to be a bit of confusion on some peoples minds about it. Let me try and explain how I see it from a different perspective and see if it makes more sense.

We all live on this planet called Earth. Now, some people on Earth speak Chinese, some speak French, some German, English, Spanish, Arabic etc. One day, a fellow from China decides that he wants to see the world, specifically America, Spain, Russia, Germany and Iran. He also wants to be able to communicate with the people he meets on his journey. So, he goes out and learns English, Spanish, Arabic, German and Russian. At the same time, a fellow from Iran, Germany, Spain, America and Russia decide to do the same thing, so they each also learn all the different languages. They happen to meet on an island and talk. They realize that having to learn all these different languages is not only difficult, it’s a royal pain in the rear. They decide that what they need is one universal language. This way, they only need to learn one other language besides their native tongue to be able to communicate with each other.

First, the American says “ We should make English the official universal language, because America is the most powerful country on Earth.” The Iranian says “Arabic should be the universal language because we have all the oil that you other countries need”. The Russian chimes in with “My country is the largest, therefore everyone should speak Russian”. The Spaniard says,” Yes, but more countries in the world speak Spanish than any other language, so we should make it the official language.” The Chinese man says “China has the most population of any country on Earth, so it is only natural that we should all speak Chinese.” Finally, the German quips “If we had developed the ‘A’ bomb first, you’d all be speaking German right now and this conversation would be pointless.”

As they are arguing, a couple of aliens from outer space lands on the island and listens to them fighting. He turns to his fellow alien and says “All these people do is fight amongst themselves. If they would devote as much time into having one world language, they would be able to get a lot more done. When we travel to other planets, they all speak in one language instead of fighting. Let’s get out of here and go to Tabletophockey World.”

In a nutshell, this is where we are. The MFCA is our ‘Earth‘. We need one spoken word, called Earthian, so that when we travel around, we only need to learn Earthian to be able to communicate (play games) with each other. It doesn’t mean that we can’t all still speak Chinese, French, Spanish etc. It just means that instead of having to learn all these different ‘languages’, we only need to learn one. Then, maybe the ‘aliens’ from the other worlds out there won’t think we’re just a bunch of bickering fools….. :rnt; :confused: mtmstnks thmbsp$

Rule Committee
 

I did not realize a rules committee had been established. I would gladly serve on it. I have spent a lot of time studying the various rule sets and the NFL Rule Book. I personally think it should be kept as simple as possible and resemble the basic rules of electric football that came with the 60's and 70's
games. I realize the game has evolved tremendously since then and all improvements would be taken into consideration.

As far as the governing body, I am not proposing an outside group. I would love to keep it within the realm of the MFCA but without compromising the MFCA's purpose and mission statement.

By the results of the poll, it seems to be what the majority wants. But again your looking at a very small percentage of the membership who have voted. So is it a true majority?

Please vote and post your comments. Believe me I am very serious about wnating to see this happen.

Universal rules
 

Ok, I finally took the time to completley read all the posts. I like what is being said by all. I think we are on the right track.

My basic feeling is, if it has been mass produced to play the game, allow it.
That mostly pertains to figures and bases. I am not oppossed to custom figures as long as not grossly over done. Tweaking needs to have some limitations. Not entirely opposed to Boiled bases.

Bring back some skill. Use the TTQB/Kicker TDQB, TDK, old metal, giant Coleco whatever passer or kicker that you are comfortable with and have taken the time to learn how to use.

Whatever game board you want to use mass manufactured, custom, however size needs to be established. Not sure what the most acceptable is now. Home team provides for home team advantage.

That's all for now. More study needs to be done on the different styles of play. That's where strategy comes in as it takes a different strategy to play each style. but that is what I enjoy about playing this game.

I think TV is going to be the major incentive for this and there will be controversy. But doesn't the most successfull reality TV depend on controversy to GET THE RATINGS.

EC
I got you, homez. Understood.

KingATL
This type of venture is probably better suited for several types of MFCA members, not just the ones that have won a tounery or two. There are some real brains here in this community that we could really use for this endeavor. More importantly, it would be wise to have good representation from all all four corners of the US. This is something I am hoping will happen.

eflfanatic
Love to have you on board. Please speak with Wolfe on joining the committe.

-Adrian-

The reason why I suggested tourney champion , because lot of those coaches travel to different ones. This look like no one is willing to step forward and try to make a playing style for some league to test. While MFCA get the feed back from that league, just to see the results. Our league is young we have coaches who are vetrans and a lot of raw coaches also ,that learn as they play all you BIG GUNS should be able to come up with something for a league to try. You have to start somewhere with something to see what step are missing to make it successful.


Peace

I think u guys missed this
 

Revenna has put this in my words as plain as anyone, maybe in more words than anyone but, its obvious that the only way this hobby can gain the legitamacy that we all crave,is to speak the langauge. thats what this is about the feeling of legitamacy as a community is to not only have a standard rule set but also standards as far as equipment. then youll see more cash tourneys, because the coachs from other areas know there not at a disadvantage & playing with unfamaliar rules. Make the rules, set the tourneys, then give the cash back to those who pay & participate. then call it the pro league I bet u have top competitors practicing those rule sets. Until we get serious this is never going to end. stop giving reasons why not, try giving reasons why or how thats true innovation.MWthmbsp$

thats crazy
 

I didnt even see the polling results before i replyed the first time. If making everybody happy is a must forget about it, but from what I see looks like 90% in favor, a definate challenge for the next President, looks like health care on this one. somebody just might be famous if they can get it done.ppls$

who's who's on this committee????
 

I offer my experience to this group, if you need substance and not tumbleweeds.....

New Rules Committee
 

I think we can put this to rest now, since there hasn't been alot of activity on it in several days. Just to let you now this is moving forward. There is a new rules committee in place of which I am Chairman.

The first goal of this committee is to create a rule set for beginning and returning coaches explaining the basic rules of playing electric football and to explore the many variations of rules that are currently being used by the diverse community of coaches and leagues that play the game today.

If you have any further comments, please feel free to send me an email or PM.

Thanks,
Chris LeMay