Some forum changes are coming....
 

I don't have the offical writeup from the annual business meeting yet, but many items were discussed in great detail. One of the items discussed, that will affect many people on the forum, was to change which forums could be viewed by the public. There was much discussion and by an almost unanimous vote, the following changes will be enacted on the forum.

1) A new face to the miniaturefootball.org main page will be established over the coming months that will present a modern, slick, bright and informative page dedicated to showing the new coach or passerby what miniature football is and has become. It will include many of the features already in place and will show a photo of the day pulled from the locker room forum, tips, FAQ, News, polls and much more that will help promote the hobby.

2) Users
-Unregistered guests to the forum will only be able to view the Main site and the Tailgate Party and FAQ sections of the forum.
-New registered users from their date of signup will be given a 30 day trial period and will have access to all forums except the Trading Forum and the Download Center. After the 30 days, they will need to sign on or they will be set back to the guest level.
-Users currently registered on the forum who are NOT MFCA Members will keep their current status until Sept. 30, 2009. Anyone not signed on as a MFCA member at that time will be switched to guest status.
-MFCA Members will experience NO changes.

Please take note of these changes. There will be more updates as we move closer to the dates mentioned and we will post a complete business meeting report as soon as it is typed out.

Only a matter of time . . . .
 

I saw this coming a long time ago. My suspicions concerning the true purpose of the MFCA have just been confirmed. It’s a complete contradiction of the stated mission of the MFCA to morph this forum into a private club. I saw the handwriting on the wall the moment the MFCA hijacked this forum from the “hobby at large”, and this is just one of the many reasons I chose not to become a member. In all honesty I had hoped to be proven wrong; that the attitudes, egos and self interest would take a back seat and commitment to a higher purpose (i.e. introducing the hobby to the masses) would take root. Sadly, the last few months of posts have proven it has only gotten worse, and this latest “announcement” hammers the final nail in it. Best of luck with your “change” of direction . . . meanwhile, I’ll just sit back and watch it circle the bowl.

The MFCA isn't for everyone. Just like many associations. Some join and some don't. Ultimately, the forum is NOT a requirement of meeting our mission statement goals. By the way, we have also voted on and changed the mission statement to read; "Assisting the miniature football hobbyist by promoting miniature football, educating the public and providing a unified association which recognizes and supports the diverse coaches and leagues."

Much of what happens on the forum can be detrimental to the progress of the hobby. We are now taking it out of the public view and will offer a cleaner more profesional experience for the new coach entering or showing interest.

It has become increasingly clear that there are many people who will never help to foot the bill. Why should they reap the same benefits of those that do? We will still provide a place for the new coach to get information, photos and news and without having to wade through the nonsense. In my opinion, we are doing them a favor, continueing with our mission and will move forward with a more dedicated and committed group who truly believe in the progress of the hobby.

If you will note, much of the recent issues came from non-members. MFCA members are not totally innocent by a long shot, but we have a COC and it will be enforced with a much firmer hand than in the past. The tailgate section and the FAQ especially will incure larger penalties to those who do not uphold the tenants of the COC.

A Board of Director's will also be established in the next weeks replacing the President and officers. Overall, I am excited about the direction we are taking and know without a doubt that it has nothing to do with hidden agendas, ego's, self serving or any other "true purpose". Money or fame usually drives those kinds of things. Which of those do you believe is what the MFCA is after? I guarantee it's not money and being famous in miniature football is just being famous in miniature football. I don't expect to be signing any autographs in the near future nor do the rest of the people that will ultimately take up the leadership roles on the BOD.

Anyone who has sat back and has offered NO opinions or made any effort to become a part of this, has nothing to complain about.

Lynn schmidt

EIGHTBALL WAY WAY WAY OFF THE TRACK
 

8-BEE


This is by no means morphing into a private club. Why should i pay for cable and my neighbors are stealing it from my connection somehow ?
Why should i pay for a newspaper and your steady reading it looking over my shoulder during rush hour. why should the paying members cook the thanksgiving dinner while you pull up to the table ready to eat after not helping one bit ?

WHY SHOULD YOU GET THE SAME INFORMATION A PAYING MEMBER GETS ?

Nothing in life is for free, THIS CHATBOARD AND THE ENTIRE MFCA OPERATION COST MONEY TO RUN.

If you cant contribute $20 to $30 dollars per year to help the mfca operate, then you are advertising to me you are not dedicated to helping the hobby.
Someone will spend money on bases, figures, custom figures, decals, etc etc. But will not spend the $20 measly dollars to join the house where they got the information from to buy said decals, figures, bases and all other items.
This is looting the store in broad daylight. Many coaches have a MASSIVE PROBLEM WITH THESE SHINANIGAN'S AND IT WAS TIME TO STOP THE BLEEDING.

Call any bank and tell them im not going to have the mortage for a couple of months. I will get back with you in january. LETS SEE IF YOU HEAR FROM THEM EL PRONTO !!!

WE ARE PAYING A CHEAP MORTGAGE TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE CALLED THE MFCA.

I hope jim davis dont see this thread because he will it the roof !!!!!!!!






MANTARAYDRE OF THE MFCA

I think we should let Lynn handle this Dre. ppcrn

Eightball I can appreciate your opinion. We are still for bringing the hobby to the masses and some of the board topics will remain open the the passer-bye and the public at large.

Its appropriate for those who get the benefits of Board pay for those benefits. Membership in the MFCA is not an excessive financial burden the benefits worth the price.

36 post in three years
 

Maybe this forum is not for him he barely has used it 36 posts in three years,then wants to come out and complain because our club doesnt want to give it all away for free.Its outragous that some one who rarely even plays the game would make such statements.Its like a guy complain about the president but doesnt vote!!

Rich is a good dude
 

He has paid his dues to this hobby. He owes nothing. I don't agree with him, but I'm not going to let guys just dump on him either.

He has created and updated websites for 3 or differnt leagues.

He helped run the buzzball tourney for years.

He invented the cleat keeper that is used by most of all the top tweakers in the biz.

He use to do the bracket challenge when march madness kicked off!

That's stuff just off the top of my head. Plus he's an all around nice guy.

Like Kenny said, let the board of directors handle this situation.

Rich I hope you are wrong, and I hope you can see joining us down the road.

I hope you are well and keep in touch with your old friend!!!!!

Nat'l

I agree National, I sent him a PM stating such. I don't think it's a situation where people should be attacked or battle lines drawn. This should be considered an adjustment to "maintain" what has been built here. Rich has mad skills and much more to offer. This is the last place to draw a sword gentlemen. This man has contributed heavily guys, respect his position even if you do not agree with it. Just my 2 cents

Dear MFCA
 

Although I understand there are financial burdens in operating this website, I hope you would reconsider your decision to make the MFCA a members-only club. This is a tough year on me finanacially. First, my wife was laid off in January. Secondly, I suffered a stroke last month. I will be out of work for 3 months. I am sure there are many others on this month who are a similar situation, especially in this bad economy. Please reconsider my request. I have learned a lot of things regarding electic football thanks to this website.

Yes sir! I bought a cleat keeper from him and love it!

Nat'l please post vacation photos!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D

where have you been????
 

what up 8ball....been awhile....

since you have not been "active" here, so much as changed and traveled under the bridge....someone will get your message and turn it into something ugly. That is one of the reason the MFCA will move into another direction. Those who support the efforts here have one purpose - to support the efforts here!

Sorry that you feel this way, but we all knew it was going to cost something at some point, but this way we all know what is going on without having to complain about it.

K-Lo

Maybe public bashing is okay with you
 

I will say this public bashing is not okay with me that opinon could have been made to wolf pirvately not wide open and if so then your open for criticism.Like pulling your pants down in public either get laughed at or wowed!!

A newbie's view
 

Well being new here I can see both sides of the coin, I am also a member of the NAF (Blood Bowl Federation, a board game based on fantasy football and by fantasy I mean Elves and Dwarves and Orc's) link to my local league http://www.biattl.goblintoolbox.com/...p?section=main

When the NAF switched to a user pays forum the Blood Bowl world errupted in a flame war, this was said and that was said and eventually the storm died out, but it effected many people who left the game:( . NAF membership in Australia is $50 a year.

Now I have had a look at the MFCA website and see that for $20 smackers I get full access to the forum and 4 issues of a magazine that would be rarer than rocking horse poop in Australia. I know that I may never get to a tournament in the States (being single income family with 3 kids) but I do know that being a MFCA member allows me access to the knowledge of others on this board (man I feel like a parasite of knowledge:eek: ) who share a common interest (even though I am just starting out Aug 09). It also allows me the grounding to try an get this hobby going in Australia an untapped area for American Football, lots of fans here.

So in summary I tend to waffle on a bit I will be joining up and paying the $20 to keep access to the knowledge here in my journey, and in the end whats $20 anyway going without a cup of coffee at the shop's for a week?

Brett

Jimmie what are you talking about!?
 

We had to twist your arm to get your behind on board! RR offered you like 10 bags of figs. The mfca promised you free Lions gear for a year!!

This thread is over. Guys have said their peace, let's move on.

It's all good.

LA Rams fan... you can get in for $20. If you can do half, I got the other half for you brother!!!!

We will start to run $5 raffles for the $50 membership! That would be good for a renewal or a new membership. Hopefully we get at least 10 guys each time so that we break even.
The end of each month we will try this to see how it works out. So you may get a membership for $5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MFCA member #11

Nat'l

Where are my ten bags and lions gear
 

I never got that stuff either the thing is I did join!!

Nice posts CorEy, I agree

We fully understand that there are financial problems through out. Overall, $20 a year works out to 5 cents a day. You don't even have to give up your coffee, just 1 lump of sugar. We would happily work with you on a payment plan if so needed. Corey offered $10 and I will pay the other $10 to get you started. We have done the same for others MFCA members who are experiencing hard times. I think you will find that if it is hardships in life that are keeping you from being a part of this, that most MFCA members will jump in and lend a hand! We want you to be here! Go to this link and fill out the form and we will take care of your payment for year one.
http://www.miniaturefootball.org/sit...fm?pageID=1223

Jimmie we holding them hostage!!!!
 

lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$

You know our boy Fox would be a member!!!!

R.I.P. David Fox

Nat'l

Fox
 

You know Corey I think about David Fox a lot he would have gotten someone to pay for his membership!! LOL

amen bro
 

i agree 1000%

I said my piece, and you have said your piece . . . it's all good. My initial post was as much as response to a previous thread reguarding "what can be done to increase membership" as it was about the impending forum changes. If ya'll are happy hovering around the 200 mark as far as membership goes, then keep on doing what you are doing . . . and the hobby will survive as long as the last surviving member of the forum. This hobby already has a number of strikes going against it; it takes time, imagination, it's expensive, and it has rapidly diminishing name recognition among the younger generation, don't add exclusivity too that list. If finances are an issue . . . and it's natural that they would be, perhaps it is time to take a good look at what you are spending money on. For example, in this "green is good" era, does it really make sense (ecologically or economically) to publish a glossy magazine four times a year? How does this serve the "original" MFCA mission statement when the "printed copies" are strictly for members? Is this not just a "warm fuzzy" for those who are already on board with the hobby? Would it not make sense to hold off on the expense of a glossy magazine until association is large enough to accomodate it financially and get it out into public circulation? Until such time, wouldn't a downloadable .pdf version serve just as well and be more cost effective? You have to ask yourself, who is the association serving? If the answer is the "paying members" . . . then what you have is a "private club". When "member benefits" and "mission statement" collide, how much credibility does ANY entity have when they change the "mission" to suit the "members". Something is backward here. This is why I have chosen not to become a member until I see that association is truly dedicated to moving beyond the BS from the past with more than lip-service, and backs it up with steady enforcement of its rules and bylaws.

To CorEy, Ken, and Steve . . . I appreciate the kind words, and the feelings are mutual.

The magazine costs us $32.00 a year per person to print and ship. Originally it cost $29.00. This is covered completely by the gold membership which will need to go up to $55 at the start of the year 2010. Thus the magazine is not an expense incured by the MFCA that takes away from anything we do. Also, the older pdf versions are available for download to the general public at no cost. Being able to hand a hard copy magazine to a new interested person gives us validity and legitimacy and helps promote the hobby through the positive info presented.

Membership has not increased signifigantly since we hit the 200 mark with the forum wide open for all to see. Maybe, this is all there is.

was not an attack !!!!!
 

coaches,


This was not an attack on any one individual in regards to my response. I was simply pointing out where we are in regards to the money. In reality, YOU GOT TO PAY TO PLAY. my SIRIUS SATTELITE radio cost $13 A MONTH to keep on. I am not giving up that service for nothing.. I listen to it everyday without fail. I pay because it is a service i love. It brings me the entertainment i am looking for. So that shakes out to $156 per year.
The MFCA $20 per year for the same entertainment but in a different arena.
This is all i was getting at. Imagine going a road trip with some friends (IN YOUR CAR) and you had to stop 3 times for gas. You get out the the car the first two times to fill up and the friends offer nothing towards the gas. The third time you have to stop, aren't you going to look at them and say, "WHEN ARE YOU GETTING OUT ". Not trying to diminish or hurt any feelings, just pointing out some things.


MANTARAYDRE

GOLD MEMBER CLUB.
 

GOLD MEMBER,


I pay the $50 per year because i want the glossy magazine. I DONT WANT A DOWN LOADABLE VERSION. This is why i pay the extra. The glossy mag gives the magazine a sense a professionalism. JUST LIKE ESPN THE MAG and SPORTS ILLUSTRATED. When that sports illustrated SWIMSUIT edition hits the stands, do you want the glossy, or down load it from somewhere.
i could stay status quo and pay the $20 but if i want something extra, i am paying the $50, WHICH I DO.


MANTARAYDRE

Eightball
 

Hey eightball I actually agree with you on a lot of what u are saying in some ways but you know when u throw mud some flings back on u.

I didn't really think I was throwing mud . . . lol . . . but I understand what you are saying. Because you and I don't know each other, I took no offense at what you posted. Besides, If I was afraid of getting a little dirty I would have kept my thoughts to myself. Conflict can be good if something positive comes from it. My purpose for posting what I did was simply to offer the other side of the coin. Will not having access to this forum have a major impact on my life? No, not really. Right now I am knee-deep in pursuing a degree in Digital Filmmaking, Communications, and Marketing . . . so at this juncture I have no time for hobbies. I do check the forum from time to time when I have a break to see what's going on, but it's not a part of my daily or even weekly routine. This hobby has potential for some significant growth, but the window of opportunity is closing. The comments I have posted are not for my benefit, but for the future of the hobby. For better or worse, ya'll are the champions of that future . . . what the future holds for the hobby lays in your hands.

me too ppls$

Once our generation (35 and older) die off so will this game. We have been stuck on registered users as well. We are the only ones keeping it alive.

8ball
 

Hey I hear ya I think unless their is some type of national interest that MF has seen its best days.We have gotten more custom than ever!!Its good for the lifer but 450.00 for a board 250.00 for painted teams no NFL license.I was thinking about the last weekend convention if the NFL had walk in they would shut it down nothing in thier had NFL license.But this web site is good for those who are in it(the hobby) and those who do like what we are,and thats cost money.It took me years to join one because I was pushing this about 15 years ago with my newsletter called Outside the lines.So it was like paying some for your own ideal.Didnt try to offend maybe my defence of this forum came on strong my bad.I hope that u can see it for what is and come in and join us you know u want to come try it do it LOL.:rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:

IF NO ONE ELSE JOINS
 

COACHES,

I think we should concentrate on making the hobby as great as it can be for the coaches who are already in it. if no one else ever joins, lets make it better and better for ourselves. The NFL concentrates on its 32 teams not looking to aquire another 5 or 6 each year. If more people come great, if not, we already have ourselves. WE ARE THE NFL 32 TEAMSS WHERE WE STAND

MANTARAYDRE

when
 

most of us that truly enjoy this game called electric football, are indeed in the thirtyfive and older bracket, i believe when we all pass on , yes E.F. will take a significate hit, but instead of dying it will simply hibernate as it did in the 1980's and early 90's,waiting for new generation of coach's, as far as the n.f.l. goes ( i dont even wanna get started on those idiots) they said the same for rock n roll ,just my few cents worth.ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn

Wow, thank you Mr. National. I think I can handle that. I thought the yearly fees were $30. thmbsp$

You said it, Styx!
 

I agree. It is like RnR, and it ain't never gonna die - AC/DC

In my short time playing again, I have spread the "gospel" to many people. I have no way of knowing if they took that small experience and decided to investigate for themselves. However, I would like to share a little story...

I know my nephew is now an enthusiast.

He wanted to know what was in the workshop that looked like football fields. I took down several teams off the shelf and an old board and I showed him how to play. It didn't hurt that he loves football...

Four hours later, he was asking how to make teams, design plays, etc. He wants me to make him a Browns board for Christmas so that he, his friends, and his dad can play.

The point of this is that he didn't need to access this forum in order to develop an interest. It came from me. I shared what I love with him and that was enough. As he gets older, he will probably want to get on this forum and learn even more. But, for right now, just having his uncle around to show him the ropes is all he needs to learn about MF.:D

I guess I'm out
 

Well, guys, it's been nice being here, but there is no more spending room in my budget. I guess I'm out on Sept. 30 and back to the Miggle board. I guess you'll need to yank my link off of your boards as well, since I'm not a paying member. I'll leave that up to you. It's ashame the casual hobbier won't have access to this, but I understand some of your concerns. Take care.

The board needs support
 

Brian I hear ya but the board needs support 20.00 is not a lot to ask for support!!Thats affordable for any budget that just is not a good objection for a grown man.If this info and fellowship is worth it you would pay its must not be worth in for you should be though.

This is a mistake.

To start out with, I well understand the concerns that the people running the MFCA website have expressed and the diffiiculties, financial and otherwise, that ensue in the running of a website. Nor do I see malice in the decision that has been taken or any sense of elitism being expressed by the website managers.

But this move is a mistake.

Not only will this not solve the MFCA's immediate problems of financial support for its activities, membership growth, or the further promotion of the hobby, this move effectively shuts off what any group of people should most value for an activity: an outside source of ideas.

The free and active exchange of information is vital if any hobby or activity group is going to thrive and expand. This is an intangible, but the value of having and attracting more people willing to share ideas, insights, perspective, alternatives to set formulaes, and humour, is incalculable.

Beyond that, the bleak fact of the matter is that, in the course of a simple Google search for "Electric Football Forums" or "Miniature Football Forums", only three or four sites come up in thirty pages: one of them is a private forum, one has sporadic activity at best, and one has had only one new post (within 2009) in two years, unlike the case with any search for "model train forums" or "model airplane forums" in which you easily get the first five pages listing open-access forums available.

In this environment, you need as much of the outside world to keep coming in here as you can invite in. Practising exclusion as opposed to inclusion can only lead to an eventual dead-end when your closed-loop exchanges become increasingly stale and bereft of original thinking.

There have been problems with dead-wood users who sign up but never post anything in a year or even ever. There have been problems with people bringing in their disputes and touching off the odd flame-thread or two. But this solution is rather akin to treating a small cut on one's finger by amputating the entire hand.

It is also not helpful to just dismiss the legitimate concerns people have expressed over their own financial constraints as barriers to MFCA membership as if they are mere trivia. These days, nearly everyone has to face that sort of decision every given day, especially if one might not be too confident that his or her job which they've got today won't be eliminated tomorrow. I often have to make that choice and it always comes down to what decision gets the most mileage out of my available cash. To put this in terms of EF/MF bugeteeering, I can either spend that $20 on a membership, or I can put it toward buying up to four bags of Miggle/Tudor men for bargain prices off e-Bay to repaint and add to my own solo empire. Or, I can save that $20 for a rainy day. I might actually need it.

I've said my piece. I suggest that there might be alternatives worth exploring, such as a PayPal donation button for one, and I will continue to contribute to the boards for as long as I remain able to. I may one day be able to work a membership to the MFCA into my own budget. I only point out that practising exclusion rather than inclusion has not succeeded for any group that has ever attempted it, in the end, and that you may want to be really really sure that this is the route the MFCA wishes to follow.

Hello...People!!!
 

Did anyone notice that we had a gentleman from AUSTRALIA put a post on this thread! :eek:

Welcome Wolfden!!!! :)

There are coaches in Canada, England...Australia...I for one thinks this hobby will just continue to grow...even if it is just one coach at a time....

Also...while I have everyone's ear....Let's get one thing straight...as has already been mentioned...the MFCA will not turn anyone away due to financial stress. I won't allow it...I am willing to help....

I can't even fathom how much "good will" money I have put into this organization over the last two years. But like Corey and Lynn stated...if someone needs a hand, then we will help....so these changes are not about the money...they are more about asking those who can help, to consider giving the MFCA a hand...it is as simple as that...:)

$20
 

let's see. $20 . . .. hobby or church tithe? Or global cause? Or even feeding my own child?

As I have mentioned before, the forum is not a requirement of the MFCA to complete our mission statement.

5 cents a day....In 1 day, I probably lose that much in the couch or my car seats or in penneys I leave at the store counters.

It is a choice. For some, $20 is no big deal and they feel that what is presented is worth that amount, for others what they get out of this site and association isn't worth $20. I have no arguement with that. We each have diferent value assigned to the things we enjoy. I have to have my morning coffee. I'm sure I spend a $1 or more a day on that. The next guy could care less about coffee and wouldn't spend a plugged nickel for it.

It is a choice and we are all free to choose. If in a year, we see that it has not worked, we can review it and make the necesasy changes. Overall, there are just not that many people out there right now banging down the door to sign-up while the forum is already free.

What we do to promote/market it with the new front end of the website that is being worked on and the things we do in our local regions and if we can ever get a boxed product that runs like it should out of the box are going to make the ultimate difference as to growing this hobby and the EF/MF sites around the country.

5 cents a day.