3.WHO ? 4.0 HAS OFFICIALLY TAKEN OVER.
 

COACHES,


Reading different post in the various sections. Coaches are only talking playing at 4.0. I even saw a post from a coach stating after playing at 4.0 he cannot go back to 3.2 or a lower weight. Due to players running smoother on bigger boards. This is what i've been saying for years but the 3.2 lovers get offended. I think it is quite evident 4.0 rules the day.

1) 4.0 is a cell phone

2)3.2 is a phone booth.

many have finally made the transition over.

Although i prefer THE MPFL unlimited weight class to create your team in your eyes. 4.0 is my next option for my teams. The haiti repros, wellingtons, miggle small figure, all run faster and smoother with the added weight and dont pop around ready to keel over. At 4.0, you put weight on a lighter figure and have those prongs just right. You have yourself a nice running figure.

I just want to thank all who like me, felt it is alot easier to add weight to your figure. Than to hire a construction crew to cut, dig, scrape, sand, drill holes to remove plastic and every other cosmetic trick JUST TO PLAY 3.2.

Notice how your figures feel with a little weight added to them.

1) golf tape is the best to me.

2)second best are these jewlery bricks i brought

3) nuts and bolts are the 3rd op

4)putty also works well

What i do is place the figure on the scale with the base on the figure.
Then i cut a strip of golf tape and place it on the scale with the figure.
sometimes it is 3.8, 3.6, 3.9, 3.4,3.5. Whatever the case may be, this is how i build up to 4.0. JUST KEEP CUTTING TAPE AND PLACE IT ON THE SCALE UNTIL YOU REACH 4.0.

Sometimes it may go over to 4.1 or 4.2. CUT A SNIPPET OF TAPE AWAY UNTIL THE SCALE GOES BACK DOWN.

****LONG LIVE THE HEAVY WEIGHT CLASS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MANTARAYDRE

I guess I use to be on the fence about it, but at this point, if it were up to me I would set 4.0 as the standard and be done with it. I just don't see the point in 3.2 any more with all the new fields and customs being made out of every type of figure including Miggles, Buzzballs, Jennings and FF.coms. It just seems that 4.0 makes more sense. It is so easy to weight up with tungsten or lead tape and by the time you are done customizing you hardly need that. For the most part it gives you more versatility and they run better in most cases.

I am against going to 4.1 though or any other new weight. We have to set a maximum somewhere and 4.0 is easy to remember and easy to adjust to.

That's my 2 cents.

I agree..... 4.0 lock it in.

I'm not a big fan of 4.0
 

Just another thing I have to buy. The NEFL thrives with a 3.3 limit. The BEFL is 3.4 and H-burg is 3.3 So is the NHFL.
Anytime you're adding weight to the base or platform you are weighted, and if you're going to be weighted there shouldn't be a limit...ala the MPFL, or any other league that has unlimited weight.

I put a rookie base on my BB fig or fab 5 guy, he is 2.5 or 2.9 that's it, I'm fine with that. Then you want to add lead tape to bring him up to 3.3 or 4 or 5, or 4.0????

I don't care how much lead tape you put on a player, if the board is up too high and the fig is not balanced, he's going to fall.

I'm content with having the 4.0 & the 3.3 Then you have the unlimited. Just like you have Front of bases tackling, and any touch tackling.

I wouldn't say the hobby is moving towards 4.0 we have 32 coaches in the NEFL and another 8-10 coaches in the Deuce that are having a blast with 3.3!!!!!!

But it all comes down to where you play, and how you like to play!!!!


Nat'l

CNYEFL plays at 3.2
 

And we have great contests. Speed, strength.

Now - we play primarily on the Super Bowl size board and 620's - that have a very nice, smooth vibe - even at higher speeds.

Remember - everyone plays on that size at the Miggle Convos and don't seem to mind!

And we do have to add some lead tape and putty to figures to get to 3.2.

The one thing that 4.0 allows is a faster field speed on a large field - But - I have noticed many large fields suffer from odd vibration wave to get a higher speed.

Of course it is not just the figure weight but the rules as well - we could go to 4.0 in the CNY and still play by the rules we do - and after two seasons in the BAM I feel we could also play at 3.2 and still use Shootout rules.

BOTH 3.3 and 4.0 are great categories
 

Just like unweighted has a standard of 2.0 figure and 1.2/1.3 base, weighted needs a standard too. Clearly 4.0 total weight has kind of a become a standard "weighted" category. Unlimited is the "other" category for the weighted.

Great points National. I personally love the 4.0 system because of the ability to push the envelope from figures to bases. In the 4.0 category you can have "athletes" on buzzball rookie bases running at the same weight as Miggle TTCs and other custom bases. Also, there is no doubt that the weight added low in the base/platform area is great for balancing the figures. After "banging" plastic with 4.0 its harder for me to want to go back to using 2.6g figures on unweighted rookie bases.

OK, I don't have an issue with 3.3, BUT at one time it was 3.2...now its 3.3 and you mentioned 3.4 and 3.5. Some leagues have gone to 4.1. I think somewhere along the line we need to find some happy numbers and stay with them.

3.3 is fine, 4.0 is fine and unlimited is fine, but for the sake of any new person entering the hobby lets set some standards. That doesn't say you can't have a league at 3.5, but if we as a community set standards that use these numbers than leagues that run at 3.5 would be considered as 4.0 leagues, "by the standards" and would be classified as that.

4.027
 

I'm starting a new league @ 4.027......:rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:

You crazy
 

Zeek you are a crazy dude!!! :rtfl: lffng$ :rtfl: ppls$ lffng$


I don't care what you make standard. A guy coming in is going to have to play the way the guys in his area are playing. PERIOD!

So any attempts at making a standard anything is almost useless.

Unless the newbie is willing to travel to find a league or place that plays the way he wants.


Not being negative, just keeping it real!!!!

If a newbie popped up in Texas.......let's say Arlington, how is he going to be taught???

I get a call from a dude that lives 20minutes outside Philly...what rule set am I going to show him?????

When in rome, do as the romans!!!!!

Nat'l

why stop there!
 

why not unlimited, ................... like we had at the BuzzFest, as long as it moves, it's good, ............why waste time weighing things in when weighted at 4.0 ? if you have a no-weight at 3.3 that's cause to weigh, ..........4.0 is better than blah blah blah, ...............it's just another team one has to build to play in some tournament/league.

Some of you guys think that playing with the board cranked up somehow translates into "better gameplay" .............You are wrong, ........ you guys are ratcheting up the ante with this nonsense and you make it harder for a new guy to enter and get competitive right away. :rnt;

Morgan, I somewhat agree with your suggestion,............ but I think it should be 4.028934 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lffng$

Opinion
 

Just looking at what is readily available and like Corey stated regionally where the newbie resides will most likely determine what weight/style he plays at.....But a newbie will most likely not be aware of all the variables available to him so he will most likely roll with right out of the bag..so where does that leave him @ 3.2 or less.....So the standard is what the customer/consumer asks for......

JUST LIKE A SALARY CAP
 

COACHES,

I agree with a standard weight. I think we should implement the poundage cap on figures and be done with it. THAT CAP IS 4.0. You can create and play in any league you want under the salary/poundage cap. What wolf is saying the ceiling should be 4.0. DO YOU YOU WANT WITH THAT LIMIT.
A newbie would see and understand this weight cap once it is written. I think it should be put on the opening page of website with it explained fully.
They will know they can play at any weight they choose under the cap.

***weighted is a special form under the MPFL RULES. Totally different system than everyone else.

If it is explained how to weight teams, a new comer will know 4.0 is his limit.
If he is to seek a league in a paticular area, he can inquire what the weight cap is in that league. If they tell him 3.2 or 3.5, he knows the cap is higher than that elsewhere.

MAKE 4.0 THE STANDARD WITH THE EXPLANATION LEAGUES WILL HAVE A LIGHTER CAP DUE TO PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

MANTARAYDRE.


TO PUT THIS TO BED, WHY DONT WE HAVE AN ONLINE VOTE WITH A DEADLINE DATE. if you did not vote within that time frame, you had your chance to voice your opinion. WHATEVER WEIGHT CLASS GETS THE MOST VOTES, IS THE STANDARD. We will let the MFCA governing bodies decide what weight class they want to vote on. lets make it a private voting process so no one can see the votting bars increasing or not moving. Suprise everyone after all the votes are tallied.

Since we are playing politics, LETS HAVE A ONE TIME VOTE

LETS GO

MANTARAYDRE

I completely disagree that it is useless! Every sport, hobby etc has a standard! Ours doesn't...and that makes it less than what it should be. This isn't about what your personal league plays. You can play by whatever you want, but there should be something that defines what is miniature football and classifies what we do. Right now, you could build a 200 inch field with McFarlane figures and it could be called Miniature Football. Dre's idea of a cap is just it....there should be something that says, no bigger than "this", whatever "this" is or classifies that what "this" is falls under "this" classification.

Model Railroading-You can't run an O scale train on an HO scale track
Nascar-I don't see any Indy cars racing against Stock cars
Boxing-160 pounders don't fight 280 pounders

It is about a standard to give our tourneys more official credibility.
Why can't we, as a community, set some standards?

By the way, calling this discussion useless is the same thing "they" kept telling us when we talked about a coaches association. :D

You got my dander up when you used that word!

foreign beginner point of view
 

Without any interference in any league rules, I believe an "official" weight standard should be a good idea, simply to make the things more clear for the beginner.

As a beginner myself in the game of miniature football, first I was lost with several things :

the figures brands
the figures choice for each position in the squads
the bases types
the board choice (brand, material, size, etc...) and differences
the basic ruleset and advanced options for it (timing, passing sticks, fbt, etc...)
and finally, the weight.

Believe, that points wich certainly seems obvious for most of you, are chinese speaking for the newcomer. So any clarification for that points, including weight is good for me and for the other beginners. Today for me, after months of MF practicing, hours of forum browsing each day, a lot of infos stills hard to find or to understand :D

In a opening to newcomers perspective, the "hardcore MF players", and/or MF veterans has to think the things simple and non too technical. Pedagogy is the key !

So why not write somewhere a little pedagogic statement, explaining there is basically 3 categories in MF : 3.3g or less, 3.3 to 4.0, and 4.0 to no limit for example, and what are the reasons of that categories, the pros and cons, what league plays that or that, etc, etc...



I agree with that, from my beginner point of view. On my tweaking videos, I show figs running 6seconds the 100yards, BUT when I play my board is tuned slower. I'm happy with that, and my MF partners too.

The board is quieter, we have the time to see the plays delloping, etc... Faster, the game become too complicated for us to play and marshall in the same time (since we doesn't have any spare referee :D ). That is a good example of what can be intimidating for newbies too.


My 2 euros, I mean, my two cents (cheaper) :rtfl:

FURTHER EXPLANATION.
 

COACHES,

Lets say a new comer or anyone builds a team with haiti repro's and likes them. Just like having a house sometimes you wan to expand. You look at the gallery section and see all these beautiful custom figures. Lets say he decides he want a few custom figs to add to his haiti repro team. We all know some customs will run over a 3.2 limit. WE LIVE IN A CUSTOMIZING WORLD RIGHT NOW. The gallery is your proof. Many coaches across america love ff.net figures. They like to customize them due to their butter soft plastic. But this plastic is a little heavier than other figures. They are on teams acros this land.If a new comer or any coach decided he wanted to expand/upgrade, a 4.0 cap allows him this freedom. A custom can register at 3.6 to 3.8 or 4.0. he will be fine, he is under the cap. If you have a cap at 3.2 and he wants to upgrade, he may become hesitant to add additional figures to his team. A 4.0 cap will prevent him from making an entirely new team.

customizing is here to stay. No one said YOU HAD TO change your team to 4.0. That's your call. But allow a coach his freedom to build his team within a cap limit. Due to massive customizing, a 4.0 cap is only right. This is the world we live in today. The consumer wants customs. Your entire team can be 3.2 and your opponent may have some 4.0 figures on his team. You cannot cry foul because you did know you had the freedom to upgrade.
Imagine a coach got a custom fig made that turned out to be 3.9. The cap he knows is 3.2. Now he has to sweat trying to reduce the weight on that figure to add to his team. Where, if the cap was 4.0, he can say, "I JUST MADE IT".

It's not about any 1 league, company or personal pref. It's what is going on in the hobby today.


Mantaraydre

DRE AND WOLF
 

POINTS WELL MADE ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$

Thats why we EM F'rs.............
 

Every sport or hobby has one way of playing also...............
Darts, horse shoes, Texas Hold'em, Rock, paper, scissors all are played one way. We have 20. But we all enjoy it.
Maybe I will take back the word Useless...maybe it was too negative.
This scale and getting a rule set would be used during the MFCA convo for the tourney, but I'm telling you a new guy coming in is going to play the way his region plays.
I have a 3.2 no custom 49ers team that I use in Buzzball, I have a similar team (USA Dream Team) that I use in the NHFL.
I have a 4.0 team for the BAM (49ers)
I have a 3.4 team of Oilers that I use in the BEFL & for the BASH (Did I mention they won the title??? :nhnh: :rtfl: )
I also have my 3.3 home league 49ers that I use in the NEFL

And that team is full of custom figs..from all the top guys! I have FF.com I have Franny J-boy figs on that team.
In half the effort it takes to bring a player up to 4.0 I can get him down for 3.2 or 3.3

don't sit here say you can't play with customs unless you play at 4.0???

And guys didn't say forming an organization was useless, they said it wouldn't work!!!!

Nat'l

:rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:

National,

How in the *%&$# do you get time to play in all those different leagues? Not to mention all the tournaments I have seen you attend. I want your job!

Job???
 

Being Mr. National, The FOTH - is his job. :D

And he works at it!! :D :D

A NEWBIE VIEW FROM TEXAS
 

OK................I'm just trying to find a league to play in!this 3.3 and 4.0 thing is foreign to me (for right now) but it would be nice to see something official per league play so we can see and understand and get a feel for playing the game with whatever size is used.Right now I don't know what teams and bases to get (or even where to get the right kind for whatever league) but if you know your area league plays a 3.3 or 4.0 (or no weight) then at least you can start with buying that particular size and know what is allowed within that league.Standards are helpful.

based on manufacturing
 

3.3 IS the standard, everything goes up from there. It is impossible to make anything else the "standard" because EVERYONE would have to ADD to basic equipment, therefore making it "custom"...................this discussion is ridicules.

Being NATIONAL ain't easy................
 

but somebody has to do it! :D :D

SteelerFan, you don't want my job!!!! Believeme. Lomax has the best job!

Artlax, I do put in the long hours don't I!?? I meant ain't I as in Ain't I Nat'l!
:rtfl: lffng$ :rtfl: lffng$ :rtfl:

Allftbl, you are on the right track brother. We just debating :rnt; :fghttt:
I hope we're not pushing you away or anything. We saying it's all good, whatever size you play at. Just play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are in Texas so you might be playing 4.0 Tx Shoot out style, which is the BAM style, which is the LAEFL style, which is the CBSMF style. So you are in a good area. Just don't put the blinders on to different styles or formats.

Hey SteelerFan, I didn't even mention the Duke Bluedevils college team that I have!!!!! :chr: :chr: lffng$ They are mostly stock BB & fab 5. The roster is all time best B-ball players tho!!! Bobby Hurley is my QB. Grant Hill is one of the RB...and so on & so on! That team was for the Harrisburg league. I use to work all day, rush home to get a shower, jump in the car and drive 2hrs to play. Tell the fam that I was working at my Sears part time job :nhnh:
Play my game, then head back home! Get home around 1130pm. Alarm clock goes off at 430am for work!!!! :dohdh: :dohdh: :dohdh: :dohdh:
mgngcrz mgngcrz mgngcrz mgngcrz mgngcrz :dohdh:

That was crazy, but I would do it again if they still played on Thursdays!


Nat'l

3.3 ????
 

COACHES

I don't see 3.3 being the standard when you have ff.net figures that may weigh heavier than other figures without ading additional weight. A ff.net figure on a ttc base may weigh in at 3.6 or 3.7 just painted and decaled.
These figures are extremely popular today 2010 by many many coaches in the hobby. Watch the dvd from last years convention and see all the ff.net figures on coaches teams. lets not forget them as being part of a standard !

MANTARAYDRE

So if mini Miggle men and Hati Repro are the standard figures, they didn't have any "arms forward" ...so what is the standard with figure shape, just Fab 5 figures painted by Miggle? How about field size, since there are no mass production suppliers out there is the Miggle Rose Bowl the standard board size? :eek:

All I can say is thank goodness for progress in this hobby! That includes buzzball, FF.net, and Electric Gridiron figures! Thank goodness for the Watts boards, 308s, Buzzball PD2520s, Roller Boards, and all the custom board makers that have set a new standard. Thank goodness for the amazing customizers, decal makers, TDQ/TDK, base tweakers, painters, field cover makers, and everyone that finds the time to do a craft in the hobby that inspires us all. ppls$

I love big boards, custom figures, wacky base manipulation, and weighted figures- prabably not standard 1960s stuff. By the way, I am going to tell you right now that custom bases that do things that you've never seen before will be the next great innovation, and yes they will likely be outlawed...at first. Oh its fun to see progress!

You can't say 3.3 is the standard when 3.2 WAS the standard till somebody came out with a heavier base that everybody wanted.

I also want the new guys to know that we ARE just discussing. It is time the hobby laid down some standards. I personally don't care what the numbers are but lets put some numbers down. Corey really just made the strongest point for standards when he listed 4 or 5 teams for different weight leagues. Most people are not going to be able to afford the time or money to do that.

Why go to 3.4 or 3.5? Did leagues do that for performance or customizing? Same goes for 4.1? Why bump it? Just asking.

Don't get me wrong....I think its all good but as a hobby trying to move forward, I think we need to put some classes into place. I would vote for a 3.3, 4.0 and unlimited. 3.5 and 3.6 and all that would just be classified in the 4.0 class. That doesn't stop leagues from playing at whatever weight they decide. It just looks to the future and helps us we lay out rules and definitions.

Its "useless" and "ridiculous" to let what was, decide what could be. I'm looking for something better that gives us and this game competitive credibility.

AMEN !

Standard Weight
 

I recently sent a standards proposal to the MFCA Board of Directors regarding establishing certain standards. However I did not specifiy a weight standard. It is very evident that a 4.0 total figure weight and higher is the future of the game. I personally like Reginald Rutledge's formula for a total team weight that he was using for his NFL Greatest Teams Solitaire league. Here is a link to the thread discussing this. http://www.miniaturefootball.com/for...ad.php?t=14606

If any one would like to see a copy of the proposal I sent to the Board of Directors, please send me an PM with your email address.

I strongly believe at some point the MFCA has to set some standards for the game and hobby as this discussion once again proves.

Thanks
Chris LeMay

We just need to continue FORWARD.thmbsp$
I think it has settled out at 3.3 & under, up to 4.0 and unlimited. It is quite obvious when newbies have responded on this very thread stating it would be helpful.
If the newbie Coach has information available it will automatically quicken the learning curve. Lack of information will scare off a new Coach far faster then building his team to a certain weight to be compatable with his or her local league.

Dicussions like this are healthy. Lets just keep our minds open and our eye on the prize.....a great hobby with structure, standards and diversity.

Geno H

Who's Corey?????????
 

Why do you keep saying that? He goes by Champ now!!!! And he won't answer to anything else! :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: ppls$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ :rtfl:

I luv a good debate..............This is good stuff tho.

That's fine what Wolf is saying, lets get some weight classes. Okay, but put it like this weight is dead or everything is going to be this.

Most of you don't realize the time & money that has been put out by guys like George, Kansas Bill, DJ and others to make sure that their product was in scale. The many times they had to sent it back to who knows where because it was .002 too heavy and wouldn't be accepted. Or the fig was hair too tall to be liked by the masses. Let's not forget about that, let's not say oh this is the way it should be.
Wolf phrased it correctly, we can have the 3 classes. Dre doesn't know what he is talking about.......you can have as much custom as you want, and still be at 3.2 or 3.3!!!!

wolf remember when we at the TX-SO and we were sticking the puddy under our bases...and after a few guys we both were like the heck with this, I'm just playing!!!!
Then remember Beenutt's team, how many times we told him a guy was too heavy...and then he would pinch a tiny bit off. We get it back, nope still over 4.0 he take it back pinch a lil more, and that went on 3 more times and for just about every player. And some of them were FF.com guys! Some of them come in under 4.0 depending on the base. Can you imagine running a huge tourney and going thru that. I think RR had about 4 or 5 of us helping to weight in coaches.

We are not trying to phase out any weight or class, we are just trying to get standards......that's cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We want to get to some great places, but we can't forget where we started, and who helped get us there!!!
Some guy named CorEy made that up!!!


Nat'l

So is it 3.2 or 3.3? :D This is a good debate and that is all it is, but hopefully it will lead to something of value. Besides, I hardly ever get to take jabs at "corey" or RIP. Its all with respect and with a smile on my face.

For the record, I don't have a 4.0 team, but I will someday (if I ever get to compete again) and with the ease of lead tape or the cool tungsten weights that I have found with the Pine Car Derby, it will be a snap to get to that point. I've experimented plenty with the weights enough to know that I like what it does for my figures. Weighting adds another element to the game that further turns the figure-base combo into something special or different from another figure-base that may be identical in form. Its one more thing to discuss that can give the edge to one player or another based on where the weight is added thus further adding to the creativity of the hobby.

Here's a toast to the discussion! $br# $br# Maybe more EM-F-ers (Electric Miniature Footballers) will join in.

Here is how the Mid- Ohio league came up with the weight of 4.0.
We took the heaviest mass produced custom figure and put it on the heaviest mass produced ttc . This left us around 3.8- 3.9. So we just rounded up to 4.0
I believe this was the same method used to establish the 3.2 or 3.3 as a standard.
I do sometimes wonder if there are guys in our league that have every single player on their team weighed up to 4.0:D
I like Reggies idea of a total team weight .

Like I said, ..............
 

................there a few reasons for establishing a "standard" as far as playing equipment goes.

#1 A standard is a baseline to go by. Therefor it makes total sense to build from the ground up. No weight, no custom, no boiled.

#2 AS far as I know, tudor, miggle and BuzzBall are the ONLY figures ORIGINALLY designed for this hobby. The other, by the owner's own admission were designed for some other use.

#3 Anyone who has ever run a reputable tournament knows that weigh-ins and inspections are a must. They take time, especially when guys enter at the last minute. Many guys travel a long way to play and it is not fair to them to be loose with the rules.

rules and STANDARDS must be in black and white, .............plain as day..........I don't know how many hours I have listened to complaints about "home cookin" in other tournaments...............another reason I got rid of my phone line!

KISS, ............Keep It Simple Stupid I would advise going with the standard 3.2/3..3 class these are figures originally designed for the hobby in their basic state.


then Modified at 4.0, .........and unlimited, .............. like geno posted.

there it is three classes,............ plain, ...........but, not simple if you want to field a competitive team! lffng$

WHY ?
 

COACHES,

What does a 3.2 team do for you that a 4.0 cant ? At a time it was suggested that if a coach wanted to use a ff.net figure to play in various places, a coach had to

1) cut the head off the figure

2)Get a dremel tool and drill a hole down the middle of the figure

3)shake out all of the excess plastic

4)glue the head back on

5)weigh the figure over.


JUST TO PLAY A OUTDATED STANDARD WEIGHT BASED ON EQUIPMENT THAT WAS THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN DURING THE KENNEDY
ADMINISTRATION.

This so called standard had to be formed way back when where the game only saw

1)miggle regular size men with the dot on the helmet

2)haiti repros

3)Miggle small metal superbowl fields

I would understand 3.2 or 3.3 if we were still only using the above mentioned equipment. We now have

10watts boards

2)308 boards

3)scale size boards

4)ff.net figures

5)miggle proline figures

6)jennings figures.

etc etc etc

equipment used to play this game in 2010 is quite different than a product made 30 to 40 years ago. OFCOURSE STANDARDS HAVE TO CHANGE TO KEEP IN LINE WITH TODAYS CHANGING WORLD.

No one thought grown men would take this game to another level. This is not a box on the shelf sitting in toy's r u s. Due to the talent of our EF peers who bring new and exciting products to the hobby. We have the luxuary to enjoy the game on a new level.

A new comer may get discourared in he see's he must make 3 to 4 different teams to compete. Also, financially, he may not want to do it because of other family needs. But he still wants to create a team to his liking.
A 4.0 cap places every other weight class under it's umbrella except.
unlimited.You can still have your 3.2 and 3.3 under the umbrella. That same umbrella allows for customs and heavier figures. So all is covered. We can keep it simpe and have in writing 2 forms of equipment that will be standard to weight your teams.

1)tungsten weights

2)golf tape

have in writing were these items can be found so a new comer knows exactly where to buy everything he needs to weight his team using the 4.0 umbrella.

Thanx to all for having a diplomatic discussion and not taking things overboard

MANTARAYDRE

ha ha...my 8 year old son just weighted up his pine wood derby car tonight to turn in for inspection tomorrow. He used some lead weights that his mom bought him at ACE. Just thought it was ironic when he asked me for my scale after I have got into this thread tonight.

Forget the putty Corey, just stick the lead tape under the platform of the figure to get the figure to ~2.7g and watch that figure on the buzzball speed diamond base run super straight and FLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey NATIONAL-its all good!
 

Hey NATIONAL-I love a "good" debate--it shows passion for the game!Trust me it will take alot more "debating" to push me away.I'm just getting started and feeling the good vibrations,just remember guys some of us newbies are coming in with basic bases and basic teams so don't forget about us(kiss).I know I've got alot to learn-weighing players and tweaking and special figures and different bases and custom boards but all that takes time and thats the "FUN" part so I'm moving forward with eyes wide open and enjoying this ride!My point: I like what you said "its ALL good whatever size you play at.Just play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Amen to that and ditto Geno H!

For the weight "problem" (if there is any problem), Franny J boy found a GREAT idea to keep the right weight : he make holes in his figures plateforms. Simple, smart and eficient.


I've got several heavily customized Niners linemen about 4.2 grams with TTC base :eek: The problem is simply anatomic : big belly , big muscles (sculpting putty), big size and heavy bones (ff.net figs) :D

Now, I guess if I was in an official league, I should do like Franny J boy and cut my plateforms to match at least the 4.0gr...Or I can unilateraly decide that the french south west coast method of playing MF is to use 4.0g on skill players, and 4.2grams max on linemen :rtfl:

Even if I am an heretic (just joking :D ) with that weight standards, I still think that an official guideline is not useless.It's the same that in slot car racing : they race stock cars, modified cars, unlimited cars. Everyone can choose his preference, or create hybrid rulesets, knowing the hobby standards.


Im my humble opinion, one mistake we should not do is to believe that heavy customs are the best for every MF player and for our hobby. Yes, beautifull customs make the hobby more "fancy" to exterior eyes. It's a good showcase for the hobby (as youtube vids are really good too), BUT I believe you have to keep a "stock" standard.


Once again, I think about slot cars : a newbie can buy a 50USD slot car, and race equally (not speaking of driving skills) in stock category races.

If there is no "stock class", do you think the newbie will buy a 100USD chassis, 200USD armature, 50USD machined gears, 20USD silisponge tires, build his car, tune it and race modified classes ? No, he will just run away and will return playing on his playstation.



Same analogy in MF. Custom heavy classes are a good showcase, stock classes are the way to go for newbies...and for some veteran players too, wanting to put their playing skills before the fancy figs. Stock style doesn't means "low level competition", or "only newbies allowed".


It's the perfect example of what I say and feel as a newbie too (even if I went fast in the customizing side of the hobby, as a former wargamer and sculptor)



AND LAST THING : fashion styles is not burned in stone or durable. What is good today will not be good tommorow for sure. AS a former minis sculptor, I'm sure it's possible to bring really good detail on a fab5 standard size, for example.

You can imagine one day you 'll see a sort of "super fab5" range, detailled figs but with low weight and small size, and every coach will want them because it will be fancy, cool and new, or whatever. In that case, maybe the 3.2 or 3.3 or whatever will become the main standard too. WHo knows ? It's why, in my opinion, keep some standard guidelines is a good idea for beginners coaches (see our texan friend up in that topic), a good idea for veteran players too (who want to play "old school" or the opposite way), and for possible future industry creations, why not ?


We can also imagine that leagues use the same concept than slot racing leagues/club : an "high spec" category (heavy weight or not, big boards, etc...) and keep a "stock" category ( stock miggle or buzzball figures, non weighted bases, rosebowl/620 board, a sort of entry level category for beginners, or for "old school" players) too ?

Excellent posts!

Based on a number of suggestions (Geno, Rip, others) it seems that at least for something that we could put in a "How to Start Being an EM-F-er" guide book, we could layout the following classes.

Stock/Standard (3.3 class) These are figures originally designed for the hobby in their basic state. Customs can be included with additions of facemasks and accessories as long as the overall weight doesn't exceed 3.3.
Or should it just be stock, no changes or modifications other than paint, facemasks, chinstraps. (the essentials)? Maybe Stock comes in 2 classes?

Modified at 4.0

Unlimited

I would like to turn the discussion to definitions for the 3 or 4 classes.
Then we can start talking about height, width standards. :D

:rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$

Great debate
 

This has been one of the MFCA's better debates in a long time!ppls$ ppls$ thmbsp$ thmbsp$

I will simply say that I too, like Corey, have several teams at different weight levels.

The 3 levels discussed would be the best way going forward.

4.0 Ravens (mid-ohio and BAM)
3.3 Titans - NEFL
3.4 Packers, Cardinals, Falcons, Chargers - BEFL

Have not played unlimited in a long time......