Should we give each other a heads up on w
 

Should we give each other a heads up on which sellers are honest and true to their word. Or just keep it to ourselfs and pay the price????

Which you may have to pay the price later down the road.

Thanks

Doug
 

I used to ask around thru pm's or phone calls before...but nowadays I know who can be trusted and who cannot......I haven't actually had many bad sellers.......but there are some on here.

If others don't ask then how can you warn them.......

I say ask all you want.

Ask before you buy!
 

I know people from their Ebay days all the way to current. Any questions from anyone just ask through my PM. If I don't know I will research and provide the information to you confidentially. You will be required to agree to total confidentiality regarding what I know. Understand that there will be nothing but fact-finding information. Nothing personal. That way you can use the core information. Hope this helps.

Honest and true sellers
 

Ken, very good suggestion. I would suggest also that everyone read the MFCA's legal disclaimer posted at the beginning of the Trading Forum.

Wish I had known what I was getting into!
 

Came home from my son's meet the coaches for football.

I am just going to say this:

Based on my PM's, messages, and calls feel free to share and network what you know. I have referred people to old Ebay accounts etc so that they can see who they are dealing with. This stuff ain't new and not a single member should suffer because the information, via profile, is available.

It can be found legally without any harm to the MFCA.

I compiled a list of handles, and who they belong to, when dealing with people on Ebay. I will add profiles for any information I receive on this site and match it with any Ebay profiles as well. I shall not provide information based upon accusations because there is always two sides to every story.

Just ask before you buy, get the information (facts), then decide. That way they can sue Ebay or the guy with the receipt showing he paid for something he didn't get. I think they'll get a pair of handcuffs instead of a settlement!

thmbsp$

Although I agree
 

It would be conterproductive to this site Jeff. To be honest if there are people out there pinching others, don't think they won't sink any lower by attacking the site as well.

I say keep it private and only act on certified proof, ie, receipts, paypal statements, Ebay accounts, etc.

That way, there are facts that back up what you say.

Ken
I enjoy your words of wisdom each time you post.ppls$ ppls$

I should have been more clear.
Ask the seller here on the chat board when the product will ship , they can always post up shipping receipts like Norbert does.

Should we give each other a heads up on which sellers are honest and true to their word ? the answer is yes

i agree. in the last ten years, i have over 150 transactions, mostly ebay. i am at fault every once in a while when i sell something, i will admit my discrepencies were ...

once, sent item that wasnt up to par with description..worked out .
and on more than one occasion in the last 15 months, maybe twice, i sent merchandise a few days later than payment was recieved. as is the case with an esteemed member here now, he sent payment last week, and i have to wait til tommorow to send it priority mail.

so, i dont mind the "network". lots of times these "problems" are easily solved. in my current situation, i am adding to the buyers box of goodies, because he has to wait til i get money to ship it....you know me, out of work 14 months makes things work a little slower.

i love the way mr. allen is stating only facts, thats the way to do it, you never know why a person may not follow the deal exact.

i echo what some have said, do a little research, and then base your decision on what you find. in over 10 years, i have no negative feedback on ebay, although i rarely have used ebay in the last couple of years.

so too the coaches im dealing with now, both of the deals will be worked out.

signed,

workless in texas...lol.

I believe we should
 

and im sorry i hadn't asked around, because ive been on an order that i placed in December, and still havent received it. I dont mind being patient, but just keep me posted on how my order is going.

That is too long for anything. I once built a car for a guy in less time !!!

That sux! Try last year for me!

Its tough
 

A very good portion of us here have good hearts, so its tough to Blast someone over a shady deal, publicly. I have had one deal that did not go down in a timely fashion and still might not even be quite completed, i dont know, and dont care anymore. I would not want someone else to go through this, but in keeping with the overall harmony of the hobby, i would never say who it was publicly. Also, sometimes people have stuff going on in their lives, and i try to be patient and sensitive to that. I also applaud the entrepenuers of the hobby and what they try to accomplish, but perhaps, orders come in a fast pace and they become hard to fill in a timely manner. I am aware and understanding of that as well.
I would only go as far as stating the facts without bias in a pm. Like writing a police report or any anecdotal of that fashion, keep only the facts of the matter with no opinionated wording at all. Thats as far as i would go.
Getting jerked on a deal still sucks!!!!!!!!!, but for me, keeping the harmony of the MFCA is far more important than getting into, or being a part of any squabbles that go on.
I wish there could be a _____________(cant think of a good word:dohdh: , dont want to use harmony AGAIN) way to expose the bad eggs in the bunch. Until then, i think i gotta stick to what i wrote.
But it is a tough one at times, no doubt.

Maybe a new forum for feedback is needed,...........each member starts his on feedback page within that forum,.......the heading would be,.........example,........Feedback for Norbert Revels,.........you would then copy the URL off your post and then paste it in your signature, whenever someone does a deal with you they can click your link and leave feedback.

P.S. I myself have some deals left to finsih (5), they will all get done.

Norbert Revels

There are good points being made, but...
 

we may be traveling down a slippery slope with this one. As someone with a company that caters to this forum, I sometimes am puzzled at why someone may write a particular post. I think back to the last post regarding why some sellers do not become business sponsors of the forum. I, like any other company, try to listen to what the customers say about the way I go about my business, or what products to offer, or improvement I may need to make. But, I feel it is bad business to change my practices bases on something a NON customer thinks. If you have not bought from me, then who are you to try to dictate how I run my business? I am speaking in general terms--not taking on any individual.

Regarding this forum, I know of at least one example where one of my customers blasted me on this forum for not shipping his order in a timely fashion. Here is how that transaction really went down:

1) Customer did not designate year, or team when placing the order
2) When trying to reach the person to clarify--had wrong phone number
3) When order was completed, tried for months to verify customer address, with no answer on this forum, or through email

Anyway, I ended up holding onto that order for months until finally customer got back to me with address verification. During this time, customer took it upon himself to blast my company. :confused: :confused: :confused:

So, my point is, that before you go badmouthing companys or individuals for their business practices, take into account the fact that there are some customers who are just unreasonable when it comes to getting their stuff. We all know that when we order EF merchandise, we want it yesterday, and I understand that.

Joxindabox was shut down last year for months, and threatened with legal action if we dared ship any merchandise at all. This created a situation where the orders that were in house at the time, were put on hold, and we did not ship anything for months. Luckily most of our customers understood, and stayed with us. My point is that, somtimes the customer may not know the whole story. Communication is key, but sometimes difficult, and many of us on this board have gone through hell and back the last couple of years, myself included. JMHO

Dallcow

There should be some accountability.....
 

...On this forum. I am not in the business of selling teams and luckily, I have only had one instance where a coach didn't pay me for the services rendered. I am not going to use this forum for my own personal gripes (and will deal with this individual at some point), but it does seem to me that the community should have access to some public information on coaches who, on a regular basis, don't pay or provide poor work or never provide the work they were paid for. There really should be some sort of rating system. Perhaps if not a negative rating system, but a positive rating system, if you sign up as a provider, and have no history of complaints, you get a MFCA shield, or star or something.

kind of like a better business bureau for miniature football.

This goes both ways. I painted a 72 man team for someone and sent them to him last December. I still haven't been paid for it. I've sent several e-mails, PM's and left a few voice mails on their phone. Needless to say, it doesn't look like I'm going to get paid for them. I'm not painting teams for anyone anymore. I do have 6 figures that I'm doing for Mark Robin that are taking me forever to get done, but I at least have let him know that I'm having trouble (arthritus is a bitch!) I promise Mark, they will be done before the end of June one way or another! Thanks for being patient!

Call them out on here! That's CRAP!!!

That's alot of painting not to get paid--OUCH!!! When doing custom work, it is a good idea to at least get a deposit up front, with the balance being paid upon delivery. That's just theft, right there!

Sharing is caring.... SWEETKA said it...
 

keep it available but dont cause (-) harm to the site. Everyone is not about integrity or a code of moral conduct. Check ebay ratings and also read what happened when they do get (-) FB.

This is a family and if there is nothing that can be relied upon....let the exception be honesty.

I have learned and shared the lessons with others when asked.thmbsp$ thmbsp$ ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn

I agree
 

And thats why for anything ive ordered, or agreed to purchase, i have always paid upfront. I figured everyone in this forum was like family, so you don't mind trusting someone that they will fulfill the order, or pay when the time comes.

Research!
 

Would have provided easy answers to your questions had you sought it. That's all!

Norbert
 

Are you kidding me! Sure you may have some deals to finsish but you are the guy that verifies every delivery with a picture of the post office's mailing receipt. You can not be more honorable than that

Another Great thing you do is communicate. I have seen countless posts where you have kept people informed regarding delays. You are the example, the exception, and the tranparency that is needed when trading!

Kudos to you! ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$

I honestly believe that IF the issue is with a company, that the issue be taken care of off the site and with the company. There is always going to be issues between the buyer/seller(Customer/Vendor), whether its from tracking information, to payments, to paypal, Ebay, all the way to he said/she said. Company's have IRS tax ID numbers, of which Dun and Bradstreet and the Better Business Bureau all have credit information and credential information for being in business.(Miggle, Buzzball, Joxindabox, CowboyMike, Jennings, and FootballFigures), sorry if I missed any. So if there is a legitimate claim with Ebay or paypal, file the claim with them and let them settle the issue. If it is on other issues, then file it with D&B or BBB.

If the issue is with a particular individual, and they are not co-operating or responding, then I'd bring it to the attention of others privately first, as maybe that will trigger the communication between the two.

IF all else fails, call them out.

Preventive Maintainance- If you are going to cut a deal with individuals, do like I do and ask for payment for supplies up front. Services rendered can be settled afterwards, and if that isn't settled, then sell it. You've already been paid for the supplies.

This is the way I see it.

That sounds very reasonable.

My other hobby feedback setup
 

Read it over and see if this would work here.

Rules for Trade Feedback: In order to provide the most direct and easily accessible feedback for each user who conducts trades on our HWC Message Boards, please follow these new guidelines for all Trade Feedback from now on.

1. If you wish to conduct trades using our Message Boards, you must create a feedback topic for yourself in the Trade Feedback forum. Your topic should be titled "Trade Feedback for ." You may post something about yourself, what you generally have to offer and/or are seeking, etc. in your initial post. Note that you will no longer create any new topics for specific trades in this forum; such posts will be closed. We recommend that, once you create your personal feedback topic, you save the URL for your topic to provide to trading partners so they can easily leave feedback in your topic once your trade(s) have been completed. (You may also wish to save the URL for any existing trade feedback posts from the past, as well.)

2. Whenever you wish to trade with someone, you can search or ask for the URL to their Trade Feedback topic and review what others have said of trading with that user.

3. Whenever you complete a trade, find the single Trade Feedback topic for the user with whom you traded, and be sure to add a post about the trade to their topic. Again, you will not create a new topic for the trade, but will only leave feedback in their topic. Be honest, be fair, be efficient. By doing so, you help ensure that we have a system which provides the best possible opportunity for safe trading among our Message Board users.

4. Finally, if you have a dispute with another user over a trade, you may leave ONE feedback post in their Trade Feedback topic stating your case. And if someone leaves you negative feedback in your Trade Feedback topic, you may make ONE rebuttal post stating your side of the story. Should you mutually reach an agreement past that point, you may make one more post in the OTHER user's Feedback topic (not in your own) to note that the matter was resolved. After that, no arguments, disagreements, or "flame wars" within Trade Feedback topics will be tolerated. Mattel assumes no responsibility for trades conducted between private parties using our Message Boards -- you must work out your differences on your own, and privately -- NOT on our Message Boards.

Thank you, and happy trading!


Norbert Revels

ONCE AGAIN...THE UNPOPULAR OPINION...CALL EM OUT
 

I think you have to name names. Call them out, and make them accountable for their actions. I have heard stories as well. The most recent story is Rick Garrison's son (L.A.) sending $ to someone in DC for a customized Ravens team, which he never received. The person in DC says that he never received the cash, but evidence (shippers receivers receipt) says that he did. After that experience...Rick's son is now turned off to the hobby. If I knew who it was, I would name them so that no one else gets duped. Why protect dishonest people who are not good for the hobby. As I have said many times, the protection of the rotten apples in EF will be the down fall of this hobby. I'm not saying ban them, but call a spade a spade, and make them accountable for their actions.

Can't do that bro'
 

Could cause legal issues for the forum.

People need to check before they buy. I always start off my deal by checking the party involved then I still proceed cautiously. If you don't trust them with your children don't trust them with your money.

How would a person go about checking someone out ? I know you say give you a call, but maybe your transaction with that person was the exception ....not the norm .

I know that one thing that I practice is to only take orders in writing via pm, e-mail, etc... That way, there is a paper trail of what was agreed to between the buyer and seller, and there is no he said-she said. If I agree to do a custom job for someone in person, I always try and follow it up with a pm or an e-mail to confirm the transaction.
As far as payment is concerned, with me, I take payment once the job is completed, and then ship the item(s) out. If it is a larger job, I take a down payment, then collect the rest at completion.

I agree Nobert
 

I think a forum should be made to tell who you should buy from and those you should stay away from. Great Sellers should be praised for their great work! Those sellers that are not up to snuff may up their game too. Also those sellers who are on the no no list, may not know what they are doing wrong and they can work on it. It would be great for rookies to see, that way they don't get angry and leave the game, all because one bad deal.

Quick solution.
 

I have been selling and trading football items since, well, since Ebay first started listing items. Myself, George Diamond, Mike Pratt, way back then. Before Buzzball.

One thing that stays the same is the crooked people. So far 100%. It's not that many, just repeat offenders. To be honest I can give you a no-no list based upon many instances not just my own. But the forum prohibits that.

I do business with Chris Stacey, Mike Guttman for my teams. I give them half the money up front. Actually I would give them all the money because they put things in writing and have proven to be extremely credible. I take extra care not to let anybody screw me out of my money because when it comes to cash I am cut from a different cloth. There would be no diplomacy, no paperwork, unless I'm being booked. Got too much going for that so I ask around and check. Just that simple.

I don't claim to be a know all be all I merely offered what knowledge I have. Norbert's idea sounds fantastic but while that is being moved from talk to action, going through legal red tape, etc, someone else could be taking a swim. Not if I can help it!

I think you have to name names. Call them out, and make them accountable for their actions. I have heard stories as well. The most recent story is Rick Garrison's son (L.A.) sending $ to someone in DC for a customized Ravens team, which he never received. ...Rick's son is now turned off to the hobby. Why protect dishonest people who are not good for the hobby. As I have said many times, the protection of the rotten apples in EF will be the down fall of this hobby. I'm not saying ban them, but call a spade a spade, and make them accountable for their actions.


I want to make this clear...the deal between myself and the other party WAS RESOLVED BY US TO SATISFACTION STATUS !
the 2nd party re-embursed FULL PAYMENT in a timely manner.

the fact of my son , although unfortunate, has nothing to do with the deal.

I have received numerous pm's and emails from people who feel they have been stung-both buyers and sellers. To all of them, I have issued the same notice which has been posted almost since the inception of the Trading Forum.

There is no reasonable way to legislate this unless someone on here wants to take the time to be judge and jury over every case that arises and also assume personal liability when the word slander comes up. We can't get people to volunteer to do the fun positive stuff let alone take on this role or responsibility.

There are 2 options.
1) ebay/paypal (they have million dollar lawyers and an extensive process in place to handle bad sales-I've used it myself with great success!)
2) sticky thread where only positive feedback for good trades can be made. If someones name isn't in the "good traders feedback" thread, don't buy from them.

As always, buyer beware...that is all the MFCA can do from a legal standpoint. I don't want to see people taken, but there is no other option. I have talked with other websites who have attempted to have trade forums and in the end, for all of them, it is a hands off policy/enter the trade forum at your own risk. I have also found reports on sites being sued and taken down over trading forums.

A good traders feedback thread may be the best solution, but even then there will be those who try to insert bogus good trades.

Good luck with this one, but don't expect the MFCA to do anything more than what I suggested above. Many of you don't know this, but if the MFCA is sued for any reason do you know who has to pay the bill and face that suit. The answer is...me. I stand to lose personally as I am the lead name on all the paperwork. I simply cannot or am in any way willing to take that risk. If it wouldn't kill the forum, I would eliminate the trade forum all together without so much as blink of the eye, but I know what it means to most people on here.

For me, I only buy from people I know or via ebay. There is no way I would buy from anyone in the trade forum unless I knew them very well.

I have to say like other painters I have never had a problem with a customer so far. I know I'm still pretty new to the hobby, but I have been invovle in over 150 transactions and the way I do it is the same as others have. I ask for half down and the balance when I'm done with teams or figure. It is a shame that some have been burned by some dishonest sellers. I agree that you should ask around about someone before you buy. If a painter,customizer is good and trustworthy there will be enough people to vouch for them. Just my little two cents.