BIRTH AND DEATH OF THE TTQB
 

Coaches,

Many moons ago when TUDOR came up with an idea to create an electric football game.Upon making the fields, the teams with dots on the helmets, and all the other little items. They knew they had to create something for the kids buying this game that mimicked a throwing qb. Notice there was no real qb pose back them. just the fab five. So back then that was good enough to give the kids the joy of acting like a quarterback. Imagine if tudor never made a ttqb, Then the kids would have to explore how to create a passing play.
When using the ttqb years ago the footballs would get lost all the time.
No one i ever new spent 1 second practicing passing They just loaded up and flicked the ball hoping it would just stay on the field so they wold not have to look for it.

I SAY DEATH because eventually the kids became fed up and began throwing with their hands. All of a sudden in our league coaches were alt happier playing because they were no longer discouraged trying to flick a football with that little plastic thing. No one was concerned about pass patterns and anything elaborate. The ttqb was just the toy that came with the figures in a box. Here kids, fool around with this. We knew nothing back then, the men just ran around in half circles and we wondered why they don't go straight.

As kids, we said what the hell and were satisfied. At least i have a football game to fool around with.

Game fizzled for years and we thought it was gone forever.

But all of a sudden, it was back like jason. now the people who loved the game as kids are now older and understand football a lot better. With age and knowledge, coaches like rip and anthony burgess thought of a new way to pass the football that would replace the toy that frustrated many as kids.
It still frustrates many as adults.The only option we had back then was throwing with our hand. Now we have elaborate stick systems that mimic real nfl routes. Another thing that came with age is someone figured out why the bases ran in circles and showed us how to fix it.

Anyone who has grown with the usage of there ttqb and have perfected the operation of it should be applauded. Due to making that little plastic thing work for you.But many coaches have grown past using the ttqb due to the options we have before us today. What would you say if you saw a person looking for a phone booth when the world has cell phones.

Its mind boggling that this form of passing is not widespread in every league.The ttqb is like elvis, but didn't the beatles come along

I feel pass placement is not respected in many areas.
The ttqb is the toy that came with the game in the box.

pass placement is an enhanced way to pass the ball in our hobby. It has nothing to do with whether or not a coach can pass with the ttqb.
Some do not have an interest in passing with the ttbq.
So how could anything grow/advance when all options are not recognized ?

Here we started with buzzball-style sticks (but with some rules diferences and big board scaled sticks). It was fun.

Then, I readed that the TTQB was fun and was part of a competitive way of playing MF. Since I'm the first in my country (as far as I know) to play the game, I tried to play with the TTQB.


First, I trained, and trained again on targets, with decent results (I posted vids of it here).

Then, I organized a game against a friend. I explained him that TTQB was the way to do to play "like the pros" in USA. So...we tried.

The passing percentage dramatically fell :D It's a way harder to throw on real figures, hinding behind opponent team, on game pressure. If I remember correctly, the game ended on a 7-6 or 7-7 something like that. Only running plays allowed us to score (not including FG).


We never played with TTQB again. Too bad...we'll probably never win ttqb pass tournaments and league in USA :rtfl:


What I mean, is that the "real passing" in MF is a sort of big wall beginners and newcomers will have to climb if they want to get involved in the game. A newcomer, already fighting with figures choices, bases choice, tweaking, choosing a ruleset, will have to deal with the real passing to play in a lot of leagues and tournaments, facing men with 10,20 or more years experience in the real passing skill.

With good bases and teams, and passing simulation, that beginner guy will be able to fight fairly against this "veterans" in a couple of weeks (since we all know that playing in an organized evinronement helps a lot to learn). He will be able to compare his strategic skills, his nerves under pressure, the way he read the game : not his dexterous hand. MF is a strategy oriented game, not a tablesoccer, table hockey game or even a pool.

So finally, "real passing" playing is great, no doubt. I perfectly understand that some MF players love it, to be part of the action, or show their 20years experience skills in tournaments. A new device like the TDQ seems to improve it a lot too. And a very motivated newcomer, training hard again and again, will be good throwing "real passes". So I don't say that the ttqb is the past, and passing sim the future. It's important to note that point.

But just think about pass simulation in a way to bring newcomers, it is also a way to keep the game on a strategy point of view for coaches (experienced or not) who want to simulate a coaching game only, and not just a way to help physically disabled persons to play. thmbsp$


2 styles of play. Not one good and the other one bad. You can be a great player in both styles. But passing simulation is probably easier for newcomers.

Pass Simulation vs TTQB
 

I think pass simulation does offer the beginner a good way to immediately develop an effective passing game. However, given an option, I will always use the TTQB.

I do think it is important that the skill of using a TTQB for passing and kicking never be lost.

Actually
 

The metal QB which is used in the CNYEFL and the BAM came before the TTQB.

what year
 

what year did tudor officially launch electric football. Did the metal qb come before the plastic ttqb ? I think someone else made the metal qb didnt they ?

It is still an evoluntionary process. Look at madden, i think it is up to 11. Im not sure but i think with each madden they add a new feature. madden 1 and 2 cant be the same as madden 10 and 11.

mantaraydre

As someone who just returned to the hobby about a year and a half ago, this topic is very interesting to me. I do feel that the learning curve to get back in is very steep if you want to play competively. However, I have no trouble with the TTQB. I also have no issue with the passing sticks. I think that leagues should allow both. The reason why I feel this is because I am disappointed in what I am seeing happen on the field.

While I love a good defensive battle as much as the next guy, I still think we need to make the game more free flowing. When the TTQB is used exclusively, coaches tend to just put 9 guys in the line of scrimmage every play. This bottles up the run game and DB's are allowed to commit defensive holding and maul receivers and we call it coverage.

I would like to see something a little more sim without having to resort to multi-stop games. like multi-stop also, but I know a lot of coaches don't care for it ecause it slows down the pace of the game.

I think the sticks tend to make defenses play more honest and not put 9 in the box. I also would like to see more rule sets where if receivers are jammed, the DB is required to let him go after sayone second and run with him. That or adopt the traditional Miggle rule where the two most outer receivers are not allowed to be pushed against directly.

Just my perspective.

Metal QB
 

is still available on ebay - sets with the all metal men.

Earliest Tudor EF games.

Iron Eagle
 

That is what makes the shootout style - as we play in the BAM so exciting - very little 9 men in the box and coaches devise creative schemes and develop players to get open.

And yes the run is still viable and works well.

ttqb
 

In playing the three or four seasons I've played in the deep south league,I have never seen anyone advance through the playoffs using pass placement.All the playoff teams right through the superbowl games have been excellent passers with the ttqb.(except me I'm average at best).If you use sticks down here and the defense knows it you are going to be in for a long day due to speed in the secondary.

EXACTLY.... Alan... we found the same here in Tornado Alley League as well as this past April at the Mid America Melee. Sticks are for beginners or maybe better stated it gives the new coach a "fast start". This allows the new coach to have a passing game immediately. BUT stick passing is not a weapon that will beat a profiecent passer throwing to the figure.;) sometimes maybe... but not as a general rule.

Depands of the ruleset perhaps ?

If the ruleset is designed to work with TTQB, it will work with passing sticks, but certainly will be weaker.

Dimitri yes you are correct. Rule sets change some of these dynamics.

Geno H

just weighing in!
 

First is the history issue:

The metal ttqb came first. In the mid sixties, during the two peg first attempts at deluxe white and yellowish players Tudor made a ttqb with a spring loaded kicking leg. The following years the spring was removed representing the product you have today.

Now to the debate. Passing requires time, patience, and repetition. I have played 41 years and I am terrible when I don’t practice and okay if I do. I have also played simulation and I like that as well. Its all about what is best for everyone.

Just my thoughts.

I had similar feelings and then I discovered the turn-n-burn/stationary-safety rule as used in the Mid-Ohio. I felt that this SIMPLE rules option created a great balance for traditional one stop rule sets (which I prefer to multi-stop). With this rule set, safties can come up and support the run if a run is called by the offense, or can sit in their spot and play zone pass defense if a pass is called by the offense. With turn and burn, speed on the perimeter becomes even more important, and so does playing with depth on defense (don't get beat deep). All out blitzes actually bring with it a level of risk that seems more appropriate IMHO.

If interested in this rule read my post...
http://miniaturefootball.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=14704

I SHOULD HAVE ADDED
 

COACHES,

I should have added that stick usage betters serves play with a scale size board. it is alot more room to operate with.

This topic will always be a seperate issue in regards to playabilty. So everyone just carry on with the way you like to play . That is the only way you will make yourself happy.

mantaraydre

A POSITVE NOTE ON TDQ PASSING
 

COACHES,

a positive thumbs up for the tdq. That qb makes a world of difference. it is well worth the $ 15. I think i have six or 7 now. I told geno i would never sell them or trade them. I just like to have a back up in one breaks. But guess what, i still pass with the first one i ever brought and never touched the others after all this time. Im amazed some coaches still do not own one.
Much better way to pass than with a ttqb. Way more zip in the ball.

I would have brought at least ten to 12 ttqbs up until now due to replacing them. Someone told me dont use them until game time, they will last longer. THEN HOW DOES ONE PRACTICE. WITH A TDQ YOU DONT HAVE THAT PROBLEM.You can practice all day and night.

mantaraydre

Joe,

It's funny you wrote this, I use turn and burn and 1-3 stationary players in my solitaire league. My defensive set up in the secondary look like real football. Depending on the offensive personnel.

For instance, say I roll the dice and the offense comes out in 11 personnel (1 RB 1 TE), with the third WR on the weak side of the formation. I may call a Cover 1 - weak cover shell (1 stationary safety over the top on the weak side of the formation).

Or if the offense comes out in 21 personnel, and it's third and 3, I may call a cover 2 w/ hard corners to take away the flats and the outside run

Or if it's 20 personnel and 3rd and 4, then maybe a cover 3 w/ the FS dropping deep with the corners and the SS in run support. It all depends.

I just don't see that when I watch EF games and this type of stuff can be done without multi-stop. I would like to see your League's rule set in person. Sounds closer to real football.

I still don't understand the fascination with allowing corners to blow up receivers and hold them or push them out of bounds for the duration of the play. That just seems so archaic to me. The real NFL is making their rules more and more receiver friendly every year and we seem to be going in the other direction. I think that's a bigger issue than pass placement versus TTQB/TDQ.

I use sticks, but I remove the turn and burns or even WR pivots (=you put the stick and pivot the WR) of my ruleset.

In my ruleset, you turn on the board, you turn OFF when a receive is open (in a timed limit). Then, you 're allowed to put the stick on a 180° angle IN FRONT of WR base, BUT YOU CANNOT pivot him.

So you have to know your WR course perfectly

It makes medium or long range passes more difficult ,to make the red zone offense game more fair.

it makes the game faster.

Finally, I obtain a sort of old school (based on tweaking performance and team knowledge)/new school (passing simulation, allowing defense and offense complex runs) gaming.

here is a suggestion for solitaire players. any DB within 5 yds of LOS MUST be running away from the LOS. all WR's must be on rookie type bases. that should get things goin and be more WR friendly. and allow only ONE stationary player, BUT he must remain between the hashes. ppls$

Mark,

My rule set is like that. Can't directly push on the two outmost receivers w/i 5 yards. I do use 2 stationary safeties however but they have to be near the hash marks and at least 15 yards from the los.

So how to you cover the TE?

In my solo leagues, the TEs are on TTCs so that they can serve as effective blockers and for the most part, they only are going to catch passes occasionally.

Roo wnnrcgr shkthbx:

jam. you can use any number of ways.

allow no jammers

allow one jammer

allow 2 jammers.

one easy way.....no jamming on any rookie base, all directional bases can be jammed.

ironeagle. i like your way, its very close to mine. its really all about YOU, as the solitaire coach, finding what makes You enjoy the game more. im sure we all want to get close to realism, but , no matter what anyone says.... its a board game first, ..........what you do with that, is what it becomes AFTER it is a board game. have fun.

Perfect
 

Perfectly said, that's why I enjoy solitaire a lot more than league or competition play.

Makes sense. I thought about using only rookie bases on CBs to match WRs, but I didn't have enough double-clip rookies to match the various Miggle college teams I have, so they are on TTCs for now (which I had many more of in terms of usable bases that would fit Miggle figures).

Roo wnnrcgr shkthbx:

Ed, did you get my email ? i think i can hook you up with any kind of bases you may need. i only have about 5000 of them...lol. if you did not get it, i got a new email addy a month or so back....

dullbladez@yahoo.com

I did, glad you gave the new address, though, because that's not the one that it pointed to when I tried to respond. I'll take care of that now.

Roo wnnrcgr shkthbx: