Football use, what the diff does it make?
 

coaches,

Why do some leagues allow the pill football and some dont. 2 prominent and respectable leagues

1)the mid ohio

2) the pro set

deem it quite O K to use the footballs in their leagues and no one complains. Why do other league say no ? Is it because one or two coaches dont like them so the rest of the league has to follow suit. Is the completion rate that much more positive. if a coach is comfortable with that football, why say no.

Is equipment use a personal preference for some but not as a whole ?
Is the football that much bigger than the others ?

The pro set league bans no ef equipment, they just want you to bring your mind to the game.

Mid ohio commissioners, thank you for allowing them. Just curious, what made you guys decide to say yes to using them ?

I still see coaches miss with them so whats the diff ?

DIPLOMATIC ANSWERS PLEASE, NO, "CAUSE ITS IN OUR RULE SET"
MECHANICALLY, WHY DO YOU SAY NO?

MANTARAYDRE

Didn't we just have this discussion recently?

Choice of QB
 

We use da pill in SF with no problems remember the coach still has to complete the pass and we have had a coach complete 90% and we had a coach complete 1% of passes using da pill. The biggest issue was the choice of QB. The coaches in my league voted not to use the newer TDQ because it was unfair to those who have used the older standard tudor/ miggle QB's all the time. So we only use the standard QB's for league games and that can be a challenge. ltsplbll

Ok I WILL say that the rules state the pill is not allowed. That is the only reason. That's in our League which you helped start. I feel disrespected often by some of your posts because it appears directly aimed at a league that you helped to start and also endorsed in the beginning. I apologize if I have unknowingly Done something to offend you.

THIS WAS A QUESH FOR ALL 20 PLUS LEAGUES
 

This is a question for all 20 plus leagues. maybe 30. Why did you feel the BAM WAS BEING SINGLED OUT. In wayneins post he stated they used the pill in sf. I had no idea they used it also. So the thread reads why do some accept it and why do some reject it. a legit answer i was looking for was it is just too big for these small players. But, like wayne stated, some coaches still have a low percentage rate.
No need to be offended when i was speaking in general. I could see if i said, " why dont the bam use the pill football ?".

Its not just you, im sure my post offend alot of people but i have to ask the hard questions others may hold back. but you see nothing ever changes.
I stated before, i write post to create dialouge where other think it creates trouble.

mantaraydre

Hey Dre and Mozeek...
 

no big deal. This is a topic we could have a discussion about to consider for the rules for next year - in fact we could talk about it this Saturday (10/16) at our next BAM play date.

Here is that thread from a month ago.
http://www.miniaturefootball.com/for...highlight=pill

I will speak for our league.
We allow them for one reason
We want to include any product mass produced and that is available to the general public , and has to be within certain size requirements .
The only thing I know we do not allow is some kind of round base . I think it is a munroe , but I am not sure. We have to have distinct front and back of a base for our style of play and this base did not have enough of one for us .

we want to be an all inclusive league , where if someone took the time and $$$ to make something, we want to allow it . There is no reason to outlaw certain peoples offerings.
What I like you might not and vise versa.
Bottom line is we want to just play !!!

We want to just play
 

Jeff,

Exactly what I have been trying to say for a long time. And yes Wolf this same discussion not that long ago.

Anyone have a pic???
 

****** do they look like?

the pill pic
 

Here is a pic of the yellowish pill by the 4 and some leather skins along with a miggle white felt ball that I bought on ebay. ftbll$

Please explain the TDQ vs the TTQB issue further. How is it unfair?


Geno H

ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn ppcrn

TDQ vs TTQB
 

"Please explain the TDQ vs the TTQB issue further. How is it unfair?"
Since we first started playing in the 70's we only used the TTQB's and when I tried to introduce the TDQ's late last year a majority of the coaches voted to use the older TTQB instead. Most said that the new TDQ made passing too easy and preferred the challenge of passing with the older TTQB.
I now have a righty and lefty TDQ that I can only use in practice. ltsplbll
Nothing wrong with the product I bought two last year and it's more of a preference thing. ftbll$

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ wnnrcgr wnnrcgr wnnrcgr wnnrcgr wnnrcgr wnnrcgr wnnrcgr :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ :dohdh: :dohdh: :dohdh: :dohdh: :dohdh: lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: mgngcrz mgngcrz mgngcrz :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


Thanks for the explanation Wayne.
One more question though........Can you use 1st,2nd,3rd or 4a run Proline bases even though they are better than the other bases?

Geno H

I use the TDQ and have done so for the last two years. While it has helped improve my passing...and is a good fit for me....I led the CBSMF in INT's as well as attempts. Many coaches are better passers than me with their TTQB's and although the TDQ is allowed to be used by anyone out here in the LAEFL, I am the only one who uses it. I have no idea how that makes the TDQ unfair. In fact, all it did was make it possible for me to compete on a more even footing with my opposition. It is available to any coach that wants to buy it....just like 1st run Prolines and many other rare and expensive EF toys.

my only grip with the TDQ QB is in the way it stand to throw...the way the arm is positioned.. ( the TTQB has its arm to the back of the figure. the TDQs is in the front) intentional or not allows the user to lean that thing almost 3 yard past the line of scrimmage before he throws the ball.... i have played against it and had passes completed against me because of that fact. with the normal ttqb they would not have been able to have thrown the pass. its just a long lanky thing that gives the user a slight advantage in being able to just lean over the defense and fire away....and we use hand up linemen.

but thats just my opinion... no knock on the product or the users..to each there own.

Equipment choice's
 

We allow the bigger football and the TDQ in the CEFL and have had no big
change in league scoring. We have found that the TDQ takes just as much practice and skill to use as does the Triple Threat,same with the bigger ball.
If the ball is thrown straight it will hit the target, the extra size has really no bearing.The bigger balls are easier to see and last much longer than the smaller ones which we see as a plus.
We feel the TDQ and the bigger footballs are great new additions to the game and players should have the option of using them but I can understand that other leagues choose to stay with traditional equipment and that's ok too.
I'm just glad we have some options!
Larue

Thats not quite true. The TDQ's arm is at his side (realistic) not front. The TTQB is the oddball with his arm behind his head. BUT....I understand what you are saying. The flip side of that scenario Rick is with a defender in his face the TTQB would have the advantage. Correct?????? So it seems to me that it is a wash. I knew when I introduced the TDQ & TDK that they would be met with resistance and thats OK by me. It really truly is and always has been.

What I never get tired of hearing is when a coach tells me thank you NOW I TOO have a passing game.:D :D :D :D ppls$ ppls$ ppls$ thmbsp$ thmbsp$ wnnrcgr wnnrcgr


Geno H

No not correct at all... with a defender in its face the ttqb has a even harder time throwing due to its arm location.

you have to lean it over to throw and a defender right in front of the qb does not allow it to lean...so you have to try and wiggle it around at weird angles to throw.

the tdq on the other hand just drops over the defender due to its arm location and can still pass..

but like i said.. its here...its accepted... i have to deal with it...not everyone is going to like everything there is to use, but i have seen it help out the coach who uses it here and it has made him a big threat now as to where before he could not hit a buffalo with a bazooka.lffng$ lffng$

still no knock on the product. it does what its supposed to do, and at least you put yourself out there to create something for the betterment of our hobby.thmbsp$ thmbsp$ thmbsp$ ppls$ ppls$ ppls$

I stopped using the larger footballs because on short passes, I got tired of knocking my receivers over with it when they caught it.

If you were using the pass targets, then I don't know why there'd be any reason to not use it other than preference.

I came up throwing the old Miggle foam ball, and still do.

In the BMEFA days, I don't ever recall us having a rule about what footballs could or could not bve used.

Ed wnnrcgr shkthbx:

Gotcha! thmbsp$ thmbsp$ Thanks for the healthy civil discussion. Oh and the coach that it helped..........:D :D :D :D :D :D wnnrcgr wnnrcgr wnnrcgr


Geno H

TDK vs TTQB
 

I think that the TDK is the best upgrade for EF special teams and made kicking fun. I could never kick using the older TTQB kicking option just couldn't get it to work consistently. ltsplbll

I'm the coach that the TDQ helped in California Geno. I love how it levels the playing field. I get very little opportunity to practice, so that made EF life difficult. I have always had strong defense, but my offense needed a boost and passing is where it's at! The TDQ still requires practice and aim, but since the design makes the throws consistent the learning curve is not nearly as steep. I now can regularly hit even the long throws....the TDQ arm position hasn't helped all that much and I really don't see the TTQB having much difficulty with its arm position either. People bend down the front arms and move the platform back on longer boat bases to get advantage too.

Oh...and the TDK is great too. No longer does a coach have to fiddle and experiment with a dozen or more kickers to get that special kicker. Buy one TDK and you are set.

DSMEFL
 

Hey guys, I don't think it makes a difference what ball you use because once he completes the pass the defense will have to make the tackle. So to me it doesn't matter if it's pass placement, ball on the string (like we use in our league), or pass with a TC quarterback. If he catch it he can get hit. The majority of the guys just like to play and they all agree Bring it, Don't sing it. This is David Nickles from the deep south, where we hit each other in the mouth.

What is that technic, please ? :confused:

thanks

Big Balls
 

A short story from a "newbie" not too long ago...

I use the big "pill" ball only because it doesn't fall apart like the current Miggle one's. I have seen older, I guess, Miggle or Tudor balls that are really good. Had one given to me by Geno and he agreed, mine were not good. So if I could get the smaller balls that don't quickly become navel lint, I'd use em...

Now, on the TDQ vs TTQB debate, I'll share the opinion of someone who's "at it" a little over 1 1/2 in a lot of league play down south (me), and of course just my opinion as stated.

When I started, I had never thrown a TTQB pass as I used dice as a kid playin solitaire and it had been 30 years since I saw EF. Having the horrible felt footballs and a 1969 TTQB I had a hard time just getting the ball to come off the arm.

I did not want to use the sticks in league play, as I wanted more control of the outcome. I heard about the TDQ, got one, and I was at least able to get the ball in the air and a chance for a completion or interception...I still did not pass well until I practiced and was helped w/ball placement, angle etc from Geno @Miggle last year. I am still no where near the level of throwing as the guys in my league who throw with a TTQB. Point being, you still have to practice.

I can now pass just as good or bad:) with a TTQB and use it for my "leaning" throws. The trick is, if you have to use the TTQB it is best to have an old one...(not sure of timeline)...I had both Joel and Geno check the old ones I had and they said they were, ah, OK.

So, bottomline, I think, if you are going to ban certain "stuff", perhaps you can help a new guy get the same "stuff" you are using and maybe spend 15-30 minutes filling them in on some basic tips for throwing if you want them to stay. After that, it's up to them to practice a bit or a lot depending on there schedule.

For me, as I only had 3 weeks when I started to build a team, learn how to tweak, rules, pass, strategy, etc. etc, the TDQ helped keep me interested.

Now, it doesn't matter, I'll play any weight, any style, any rules as long as the rules are the same for all. I am equally as bad in any ruleset as the only constant is ME as the coach:) I certainly don't mind winning, but hangin w/friends, meeting new friends, laughing, etc. is really what I look forward to.

Well said Joe! thmbsp$

Joeram57, a little tip on the ball troubles you mentioned. You can try using Miggle-Tudor foam balls or if using the felts, rather vintage or new, hit them with some hairspray.
You can also brush on a little ModgePodge, that will keep them together and stop them from coming apart.