The BIG Question! Take your gloves off and discuss...
 

Assuming that the MFCA World league gets going per the previous discussion, the BIG question is: What type of MFCA World League rules will appeal to the majority?

In my opinion the rules should resemble an established rule set that is not too far out that the average Joe on the street with a basic knowledge of football should be able to pick up fairly easily yet should require the basic learned skills of miniature football that with practice can be perfected.
For example, I play the majority of my games by a revised version of the NHFL rules. Without too much trouble, I have played games using the Dixie League, Buzzball, Miggle and Mid Ohio rules. I loved the NEFL rules that I watched but have not yet played , but feel that I could pick these rules up in a couple of practice games. On the other end of this,I played the LAEFL rules and all though I competed fairly well, I still don't know that I comprehended many of the rules we used and I always forgot to stop the board after 10 yards and to shake the box. Not a knock on the rules, just my own inability to learn them quickly.
Equipment should be thought out also as we don't want to have the league requiring more equipment than most of us generally already carry.

What I really want to hear is what rules you have played by, that are not your own comfortable rules, you feel you could best adjust to the quickest and still be competitive?

The MEFA rules where some of what I learned first, and that was a great set. It's a good simple set that people could pick up quickly. But the game has moved on from there and some of the additions we've seen from Pennsylvania and the midwest and the west and Texas all ought to be considered.

I don't know if it's possible to build a rules set that somehow brings in a portion of every major league's rules in the country. I think if we try and do that, we're never actually going to get it off the ground, because people have to realize that it's just not possible to please everyone in this situation.

There are a few basic questions that have to be answered first:

* Will games be timed or be based on a set number of plays?

* How to handle passing? Turn and burn ... Attack passing ... pass placement, etc. A hybrid?

* Single stop or multi-stop?

* Front-of-base tackling or any touch?

* Implementation of dice and if so, for what?

These are kind of the super 5 that we are facing. Work these out, and the rest of the rules set will just about craft itself.

I thought we had good rules in BMEFA (turn and burn, FOB tackling on running plays, 18 plays per half), but clearly they weren't for everybody, since we aren't playing this fall. I'm not the biggest fan of Attack Passing, but I'm not going to boycott if that's what the majority chooses. I haven't played in a "box" league yet, but would like to, so if we go that way, it's fine by me.

Ed wnnrcgr shkthbx:

Just for discussion sake, here are the rules put together By Chris LeMay and a rules committee as a default set for the MFCAL/CPC Championship game. They were not used at the time, but have some great elements.
Download Rules

MFCA World League
 

Wolf,

Although I did not respond to the previous discussion, I did very carefully read and consider all that was being discussed. If we are going to do this, in my opinion, we have to just come up with our own MFCA rules. establish standards in regards to figures, bases and equipment that is unique to the MFCA only and develop a style of play that is an MFCA style of play.

I am working on some things that I believe does address the issues that you mention. I will share when I feel that I have come up with something that does acomplish what is in the best interest of the MFCA and does not show favoritism towards any one manufacturer or already established style of play.

JUST TURN THE KEY WOLF
 

Wolf, chris, ken

I just read the house rules. They seem great in my opinion. The philly rules also. Read them both. If you want to merge more things re both sets mentioned do so. Whatever is officially stamped coaches will print a copy and begin to learn them. maybe during this non tourney anywhere quite time is the time to put them out.

make a house rules stamp logo and

TURN THE KEY.

In our history, these discussions tend to spiral all over the place. I see abase is in place with phillys, and effanatic's rules scripts. if they have to be tweaked, please listen to ken allen. He played 41 years and pretty much played everyones rule set. So has a. baxter. phillys rules are his favorite also.They have 32 deep with 10 on deck. You should have seen the excitement when ken played corey at the convent. Whatever you guys have to do to merge anything just do it. Whatever is decided upon we all will have to learn anyway.

Just turn the key then we can begin discuss the ruleset itself in breakdown segments.
It's time we move discussions into talking about the rules instead of talking about making the rules.
Wolf, a circular stamp makes them official and gives them a look of professional credibility. Like EA SPORTS or some other gaming co.

mantaraydre

I'll read the rules tonight, after work. The only thing I can say for now is stay away from dices and random effects, please :D

and allow diferent passing technics (target, sim, ttqb, tdq, real throwing).

Rules
 

Complete use of the TTQB and TDQ/TDK passing and kicking figure or any other figure designed for passing and kicking.

No dice, no cards, no charts, no box, no sticks, no simulation.

These are just my preferences.

Options
 

Rules if possible should reflect Rick Garrisons' proposal, with each Region having a Representative on the rules committee, it may be in the best interest of the MFCA to try this first, may be difficult, but that would truly represent us as a whole, also freeing the MFCA from charges of being biased. That would strenghten the MFCA by creating trust & cooperation among its members.

I think there should be multiple rule sets proposed and then a vote by all MFCA members to pick the set used. I don't like having a single regional rep given powers over all. I might even join MFCA for that...I donated first year, but really have been kind of turned off by the power struggles.

Agreed
 

I agree with u Fin, the power struggles is the very reason this isnt done already, our problem isnt who, but how. Already were changing the original concept into what we feel can work. Sometimes letting the solutions reveal themselves, & concentrating on the mechanism to make that happen is over looked, you cant have a builing without a foundation. First off, we have guys working on rules & dont even know who there making rules for, secondly anything u do requires members, u might want to start by contacting those "HEADS OF STATE" who have the info on who attends there tournaments. Build a concensus first without that its going to fail, get your chips in order. Third, let the Market decide how it wants to play, either by Conference or vote as Rick & Fin has suggested again, funny the west coast guys are the only ones involved with this discussion, if u want there support I suggest u listen. the MFCA should be an Organizer at this point, drawing all parties involved into a meaningful discussion about how this can be done, structered around "Existing dates & Tournaments" for these are when we gather. RULES ARE NO WHERE NEAR THE TABLE YET, as they are the 1 thing that will turn guys off, build your support first then rules through concensus!

As Roo mentioned, maybe we should put up a poll and have members vote on what they would like to see in the core rules as far as the basics, for example:

tackles, FOB or any
pass methods allowed
equipment allowed
weight limit
length of quarters, total game time
stacking or not
etc...

A poll voted on by members would get the commitee leaning in the right direction. They can then utilize the various rules sets from all over the country and take little pieces from each set as were voted on by members in the poll. These can of course be massaged and changed or lifted right from the pages of another league's rules set. This gives the core building blocks from which to grow on.

This puts the creative rule making powers in the MFCA member's hands, not a regional spokesperson or committee's hands. We will end up with a set of rules that were voted on by the majority of MFCA members. We can test before releasing the official version and then update and tweak each year, as I am sure that will be necessary.

Now were getting somewhere
 

can work, a result that is visible to everyone, as far as rules, but the basic foundation is still not being addressed. Why do u guys want to skip to rules first, start with your base grow that first, it makes no differense how u play if theres nothing to play for. Find your memebers then decide how u want to play. I have personal commitments from at least 2 major "Tournament Organizers" to support our efforts, there main concern was being over shadowed at there own event, much work needs to be done, find out if were even welcomed, dont assume guys are willing to share floor space, or glory for that matter. I have total confidence that if given a opportunity guys will step up, all they need is a structure to operate. Thats where the MFCA comes in, setup your Organization, contact supporters, mark dates, locations. We cant approach this in the same way, tear up whatever your reading, its time to start over. By starting with rules your already losing guys that may other wise support you, first get agreement from those for there support, then deal with the rules! This way the MFCA avoids being labeled biased, in the long run that will prove crucial, in respect to the MFCA mission statement!

THE POLL
 

Coaches,

Putting up a poll with many waysthe game is played day is an excellent idea.
A break down of what shabby listed. But much longer. then we have a national/international week of voting. STATE CLEARLY THE POLLS WILL CLOSE AT A CERTAIN TIME ON A CERTIN DATE. The poll results will be the building block of the rule set. EVERYONE IN THIS COMMUNITY HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE. YOUR PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE TO BE A MEMBER TO VOTE.. There can be no complaints after the fact because the polls will show exactly what the majority wanted. In fact, print the poll results on the back page of the rules in case someone forgets how it was structured 2 years from now. THIS IS WHAT THE PEOPLE VOTED ON.

make sure everyone is aware when the polls are open via a mass email and also a message on this chatboard. We don't wan't to hear, " I DID'NT KNOW WE HAD A VOTE ON THE RULES" when someone is not happy with them.

The key to making this work is the creation of theist that all member will vote on. For example,

PASS PLACEMENT

1)BUZZBALL METHOD (MEASURE FROM QB TO RECEIVER)

2)MPFL PASS PLACEMENT ( USAGE OF STICKS IN LENGTHS OF 3,5,7,9,12 YDS

3)PRO SET PASS PLACEMENT ( USAGE OF A 4 YARD STICK ONLY, MEASURED FROM RECEIVER)


TACKLING

1)FRONT OF BASE ALWAYS

2)Front of base the first ten yards, any base tackling there after.

3)Any base touch tackling only, throughout game.

EQUIPMENT USAGE

1) Any equipment that was made for electric football from 1940 to 2010.
Includes boat bases, any miggle football, edfw footballs, etc etc


2)equipment not made for electric football

a)lead tape
b)putty
c)nuts and bolts
d)boiling bases (as long as your team is 4.0)
e)lead tape under player platform and any attached weight under the base.
f) all stock figures and customs weighing 4.0 who width is equal to a miggle wide arm figure and the height an an ff.net blitzer(fig with both arms straight up in the air)

This is just an example so we all have a clear understanding what we are voting on.

This will also ensure that no standing entity is left out and any of their playing methods are overlooked.

Keep the polls open for a week in case someone is away on a paticular weekend and does not have computer access to vote right away.
MONDAY MORN to MONDAY MORN whatever week you choose.


mantaraydre

WHAT!
 

Arent u guys hearing, there is "NOTHING" to vote on, no league, no members, call your hommie see if he'll be interested!:rnt; To continue to ignore the real issues is futile, the problem isnt the rules, its a league in which to apply those rules. If u want to do a poll find out how many people will be interested in playing, poll that!:rnt;

I hear you Megawattz, but I think you need a rule set first to build the league around. I am not committing to a league where I have no idea of what the rules will be. If the rules are put together with a majority vote then the league will build itself.

The chicken or the egg?

I like the discussion though.

Same Tactics
 

Same Results, seems to me this has been tried before.:confused: Watch what happens next!mgngcrz West coast guys got the idea, the cooperation of any type of national league will depend on its parts, not a set of rules, thats the key Dre referred to. Create an atmosphere where that can happen, success! setting rules at this point is totally unneccessary. After u set the rules then what?:confused:

Function
 

Ok fellas, Im going to try to explain this as clearly as possible. My original post was to foster a serious effort in a national league, based on "EXISTING DATES & TOURNAMENTS" this is the foundation from which the league would exist. Since its based on that, the cooperation of those resources is the key, the function of the MFCA at this point is not to dictate policy, but to Organize the said "Dates & Tournaments" into a travel oriented league that can sustain itself through active members that travel. U cant start something new with old ideas, every point ive mentioned has to happen FIRST, u cant start a discussion by dictating policies, create a framework of cooperation, then worry about the specifics. U will gain growth if those that matter the most truly felt they had a hand in what there playing for, some times u have to look deeper than the surface!

Futher More
 

I truly feel that the MFCA should completely wash its hands on the rules issue, I truly see no gain as an Organization or to the Mission Statement, to continue on a noble but such devisive issue. Any attempt to wright policy or rules by definition, will serve to devide not unite, the hobby by area, style & or location. Personal relationships within the hobby & board members could also be viewed as a conflict of interest for there setting policy for events that they themselves may participate in. There are real, better yet, true reasons, why we have this discussion every year. Take the rules out of your hands free your minds fellas, if the MFCA were to function as a sanctioning body as far as rules, rattifyng rulesets on a yearly bases. let the parties involved set there own collective policy on rules, u guys choose the time & place then declare the winner. No charges of being biased, no personal tiffs, with different regions saying we did our best, only then will u get true support as they will know no personal bias. we must all understand the language also needs to change. to continue down the same path is what?:confused: To choose to sanction rules on a yearly bases will provide the MFCA with the flexibility to review its operations & make changes when neccessary, as rules often change, its the foundation we need, rules come & go. First thing Shabby stated was under what circumstances he wouldnt participate!mgngcrz WE IN TROUBLE!:eek:

MFCA Rules
 

I recommend we adopt the currently posted MFCA “House Rules” as our rule set for any MFCA sanctioned event. Many of our fellow members contributed a lot of time to get them right. Only minor changes and modifications should be accepted as proposed revisions/change requests to be considered by a board of regional members. After re-reading what was proposed at least a year ago, I’ve gained a greater appreciation for the rules as stated. I really like the way the rules distinguish a “hand-off” from a “pitch” play and allow for the backward lateral. My thanks to the MFCA. Ray F

Handoff rule...handoffs can be automatic anywhere inside the tackle box, but the runner can be no more than 5 yds in front of the QB. This is to allow for handoffs which now occur in spread offenses with zone reads, options and jet sweeps where the exchange takes place in front of the QB.

Once again
 

The Rule freaks!, & the conversation begins anew!:confused: convo has never gotten past this part, the hobby has always rejected any organization attempting to organize a national league based on rules they have nothing to do with drafting, good luck, on that one. STOP AND ASK YOURSELF WHY? until u address that itll always end here. Im sure youll find people if given a real platform, can decide there own ruleset. seems to me if u want participation thats our best option. u have my support no matter how it goes. Maybe u guys have gotten better at writing rules! Did u notice that as soon as guys started on there rule rampage, interest in the convo dropped immediately, same tactics, same results. mgngcrz

Rules
 

I've given this issue a lot of thought over the years and here's what I've come up with:

1) This will never happen organically. Some of us are accustomed to certain styles, certain leagues, etc and we enjoy that style. Some of us want more emphasis placed on the TTQB and offense, some want less, etc. Some like multi-stop and random events some don't.

If I asked the USA to come up with a national style of music, do you think we could ever reach a concensus? No way.

2) The major manufacturers aren't leading the way. They aren't producing or marketing a certain style enough. They aren't putting dollars into events that promote the style that fits their product. I am fully convinced we would have a national style organically if a major manufacturer had thousands of people buying their product and coming to their event. People would gravitate toward that style as the official because they wanted to compete using that method. As it stands now we are too small and diverse within the ranks to create any type of groundswell. There's no buring platform.

3) I think we, as a body, can show some basics and common themes amongst the rule set to help the newbie but it will be one of our challenges. Certain coaches are very adept at one style of rules but won't venture outside of those rules or styles. That's their perogative - they should do what they enjoy. I don't see us, as a concensus body, being able to move the dial enough on this issue as lord knows we've tried.

Good points
 

now how do u BEGIN to deal with those issues stated? The MFCA as it presently stands, is the only Organization that even attempts to represent the hobby as a whole, all others openly promote there styles depending on location. I know the guys have worked hard to come up with something digestable by the public, but the problem isnt the rules, its the process of which those rules were reached. No matter what u come up with, it can never further your goals in regards to the Mission Statement, because the act of creating those rules undermine your efforts to bring the hobby together. No matter what rules u write, by design your opposing YOURSELVES! The MFCA must break the cycle by freeing itself from the act itself. Its like trying to dig a hole, with your partner filling it back in, if u were to shed that baggage, bias & opposition will go with it. The MFCA can not appear in no way, shape or form to prefer any style, there role may be best served, by representing what has been passed up from the players themselves. Until we begin to change the fundamental way we approach some of these issues "SAME TACTIC, SAME RESULTS"!

Wow...you are making some very valid points. The association really needs to take a look at this.

Megawattz gets it.....ppls$

This needs to be a strong grass roots movement from the membership for it to be successful. Just talked with Megawattz and I think he is on to something. He has my support and he will be running with this idea, so listen up everybody , give Mega your ear and see where this baby goes. ppls$

Too many bong hits this morning I guess... You guys are confusing me...

I'll follow along until I can get up to speed.

For thought
 

In the next couple of days I'll be outlining, a plan that I feel may be able to garner some real results in the way of a "PROFESSIONAL National League" based on existing tournament & regional league dates. This is solely voluntary and in no way will effect any established rules or customs of any particular region or league. My goal is to further the cooperation between regions through creating a competitive circuit comprised of members that frequent these events. As always your support & participation is required for any effort to be successful. This is not personal, & in no way bare my name, nor do I have any real power to influence the outcome of events that may or may not shape success. here we go again, lets make it happen this time!:eek:

Ok.. first Good discussion
2nd...I will support what the MFCA MEMBERS decide to go with as the offical set up for play.

My suggestion as far as rules go i think is pretty simple... we all play Electric Football... we all know the Basics of the rulesthose never change (11 men on the field..formations etc)

My Proposal 'if we must talk rules" would be this.... Every member who is going to actually play.not jusr run thier mouth about playing"Gets to pick ONE.. 1... UNO....rule they like and propose it toward a final rule set and it gets voted on. for instance.. in L. A if i knock your runner/reciever over it is a fumble and you roll a dice, odd or even to see who recovers. thats the rule i propose,and only that rule i can propose.you will be supprised at some of the gr8 rules out there that if all brought together could make for some really fun EF.

I think this will keep all involved in the Creating of the NEW league and hopefully will bring some unity to the process, But also keep in mind...
Your not going to please everyone..there are ALWAYS going to be someone who is not happy with the a rule or two, and thats ok, but we cant keep trying or acting like we can please the masses... it just wont happen.

Lets just see who is willing to give it a go first...then we can hash out the OFFICIAL this and that later...

Lets do it, before we lose it !

I am all for the Megawattz plan....a separate sort of event within each event (if I understand the plan correctly)...that is not meant to compete with or take away from the local event....This series of events within an event is meant to bring some national unity to the existing league events. I like this idea. I am not for a binding national rule set at all. A simple recognized set for the event within the event games....I get that....but let's keep that simple and a means of fostering unity. Maybe the event within an event rule set can be changed each year, so that everyone gets exposed to rules from different regions?? Or...perhaps it is just best to go with a simple set of rules for those games. A set voted on by members and agreed to by vote? I think it might really be cool to treat that event as something unique....maybe only allow small 22 man teams for those games....and no luck factor (box). Maybe even make the weight standards on that team based on real football (Give the players a range of weight for each position, and a total weight to distribute amongst the players at their position....so, maybe you get 14 g of total weight for your 4 linebackers...and they must weight from 3.0 g to 4.0g each)?

Just weighing in . . .
 

Sure everyone has their style. I agree to that. My only goal is for all to understand that at the convention their must remain a default ruleset.

With respect to regional tourneys, the object was simply to sanction them, not dictate how they play game. However if/when you qualify for the big elimination tournament at the convention, albeit by tourney points, CPC, MFCAL, or league championship, Then the default rules are put into place. This way the MFCA provides an "all inclusive" opportunity at the convention for it's membership to compete. Anything less than that is unacceptable in my opinion.

I totally disagree with meddling in regional tournament or having back door tournaments for the MFCA because it just can not happen. One will always be dominant over the other and the last thing I feel needs to be done is to push that on anyone. I feel that in addition to the regional tournaments, which the MFCA should only be responsible for sanctioning, supporting, and running skills competition, it also presents leagues with an opportunity to catch up on games like the Mid-Ohio did at both the MFCA and Miggle Conventions. To impose ourselves to a secondary tournament would undermine entirely our support for what the locals are trying to accomplish. No offense but a classic example to that would be the CBSMF dominating the 2009 convention so much that the CPC had to be incorporated into their games this year. Last year I remember watching Adrian Baxter (sorry I singled you out my friend) trying to get a CPC game in with little success. We have a mission statement: it can be accomplished.

Unity: You cannot have votes on the ruleset it is just that simple IMHO. It represents compromise which means no one is happy because for every rule they vote for will not pass. Again no offense but if you have not supported a tournament that has played no less than four different formats that is a clear indication that you are not willing to change. The unity comes from first the MFCA respecting what you do in your area through support, sanctioning, and adding ambiance with the skills competition and anything else we can offer. In return, when you qualify, whether you win or lose, you support the default rules when you come to the MFCA convention. If you choose to pattern your ruleset after the MFCA default rules I feel the choice should completely be that of those individuals running their tournaments in their regions. One clear fact is the average MF coach MAY make one tourney per year.

Integrity: This is the easiest of all to acheive. By having default rules it settles all issues related to those who have enabled themselves by only wanting to play their way. Sure, we are all confortable with our rulesets but we should not under any circumstance fit our rules to any style. Yes, we do need to offer an alternative passing method beyond the TTC. Logically, the passes become more difficult as the distance increases. Therefore, it stands to reason that it would appear that the only way for that goal to be accomplished is to find a established method that suits that objective. Don't give it a name, be not concerned who allegedly invented it because I am sure that everything we did has already been done. With any touch vs front of base it would appear simple unless you have a personal bias that clouds the objective of intergrity. Front of base (my preferred style) is very subjective unless progress is stopped. It lends more to the possiblity of integrity being compromised because one person's interpretation, or objective, is different from someone else's. With ATT it is clear, with the slightest movement, that a tackle has been made in most cases. Simply stated, it is more likely than not that you can see an ATT vs FOB. It's not about preference, it's about eliminating motive and opportunities to undermine fairness.


Fellowship: Again the mission statement is met here by the MFCA sanctioning the tournament, awarding all applicable points in the tourneys, leagues, or CPC. Again, if the CPC is extended people may see the value in not packing their bags as soon as they lose at the regional events which again fulfills our requirement for fellowship. We can only offer the vehicles for success through providing support mechanism that create a positive experience for coaches at the regional level.

I personally disagree that having a default ruleset for the MFCA convention playoffs undermine the mission statement. Trying to impose our will on regional tournaments does. Not trying to appeal to the masses undermine the mission statement as well. Our job is to support your efforts then give you something to play for as well. I don't know about anyone else but the prizes offered for winning the MFCA tourney were second to none this year. NONE! Our job is to extend that support to our entire membership by all the actions recommended above. Build it and we will support it without imposing. If people want to play by our default format then we are honored. Just understand that a "die hard" hobbyist must be flexible when they come to Canton.

Just my thoughts.

Excellent!!!
 

Ken,

Excellent response to this issue.

Thanks

"REALLY"
 

Ken has stated nothing more than whats already in place, ask the guys that take the time to organize these tournaments, "hows turnout lately?" he'll probably look at umgngcrz . Fact of the matter is, Tournys are dieing a slow death, with numbers dropping each year, when there gone, then what? :confused: A "Pro" league & thats what u call it, "PRO" based on these tournaments, with rules written by those that take the time to host these tournaments, collectively then adopted by the MFCA, is a system that I feel has promise, assuming participation of course.

Well....if the so-called "national championship" ends up being based on a set of rules that doesn't really get enough input from each region, then don't expect too much support. I caution folks against making a "national" rule set and trying to impose it on each region. Even if you don't directly impose it into regional events, you encourage some amongst us to push to accept those rules so that they can be more competitive for the national trophy...at the expense of rules that have been in play successfully for quite some time in the region. I really wish we could rotate the championship amongst the regions and then you play by the rules of the host region. Every region gets to be showcased that way and it leads towards unity. Failing that, I suggest a VERY simple set of rules based on the Tudor basics so that one region or another doesn't feel slighted. Isn't that kind of how Miggle worked? I prefer Megawattz' first proposal and fear one group or another pushing their way of play on all of us. Sorry I feel that way, but I have already seen it in action right here in Los Angeles. I am more concerned with the local scene. Travel is expensive and to change the way we play for a relative few doesn't appeal to me. If I travel to play, then I expect to play by the local rules....and that doesn't bother me. Fellowship and fun are more important virtues than winning...we aren't being paid to play this game.

Also, I saw Sweetka mentioning Canton as the site again...and I thought that was not going to the be the case. If it is, then I think you should expect to see some support dropping off out west.

My good friend.
 

There is no Buzzball, the economy is awful. There is no disposable income and the last Miggle convention was actually a wild success tourney wise. We should also look at the "credibility" hit the tourney circuit took from an alleged tourney that never happened.

My position/vision has never changed and it has been this same position I have held since walking away from the last MFCA convention. Please review those post as the similarities to this subject fueled my re-dedication to the hobby.

Our job at the MFCA should not be to change what people do, but to enhance tourneys by extending support, incentives, etc. to make the trip worthwhile to others as well.

Just my thoughts.

Fin Fan
 

Didn't mean to offend or determine where we play. But the MFCA sent two board members out to the Open Run. I plan on being there next year. It's our job to support what you do in my opinion, not dictate. My understanding is the CBSMF is coming your way which is the only reason you guys showed up in Canton in the first place. Let's make sure we understand why Cali was in the house. It was due to your participation in a league, that played to your style, AT the MFCA convention.

Just my thoughts.

U wont kill this one!
 

Relax Kenny this is a discussion meant to address areas of concern that has been plaguing our hobby for quite some time. Namely dropping participation and the causes. I dont think u quite understand what is actually taking place, this is not to change anything existing, simply to explore "NEW" ways of attacking common issues, along side the MFCA. No ones tryin to take your shine, if u have nothing new or constructive to offer please.:confused: I hear u guys out West your input is greatly appreciated & needed. Any and all constructive comments are welcomed, & encouraged. If you feel this isnt something u can support, no comments please, nay sayers time is up. We got the floor now!thmbsp$

It seems to me reading through this thread I get the impression we are all in agreement that Tournament participation is down. It also seems to me one party is offering up a solution that directly attacks that problem. ?????? Am I right???? I am trying to get a grasp, as these types of threads actually get painfully redundant in the past. If we can "fuse" together a "PRO CIRCUIT" with existing and WILLING Tournaments across the Nation (regardless of ruleset) it seems that would be some serious motivation to the local grass roots coaches to participate in thier local Tournament. Growth from the bottom up is what we need. Knowing that placing well in your local tournament also could give you a chance to officially quailify for a national playoff will fuel the fire of alot of coaches.

Am I even close to understanding what is being offered???????

Megawatts????????


Geno H

Thats the Idea
 

I think if a real effort was made this could be a formula for progress, we must remind ourselves that we cant do it alone, by giving the guys that do the hard work a real stake in something with national implications, that can be measured, with a structure designed to increase cooperation & participation, we may be able to reverse some of the recent trends. I feel Rules should be the domain of the coaches for they are the ones that has to live with whatever is decided, freeing the MFCA from such a devisive issue, will serve to empower the MFCA as they are now truly a neutral party on the rules issue. Each "Region or Tourny" would have a represetative on a rules committee, representing the styles of play for that region. They would draft the rules together, with the MFCA overseeing the process. Those rules are then adopted by the MFCA as the official "PRO LEAGUE RULESET" ratiffied on a yearly bases, allowing for easy review & amendment if needed. At this point rules arent on the table, the cooperation of regions is first on the to do list, Ive contacted various Organizers, with verbal commitments from "MOZEEK THE BAM NY REGION", DEARELL BREVARD BELTSVILLE, "MIKE ROBERTSON SOUTH WEST REGION" "JIM DAVIS GREAT LAKES MID-WEST", this is just a start, I need someone to represent "OPEN RUN WEST COAST", cant reach "DAVE NICKLES BAMA BLAST DEEP SOUTH" any info on how to reach him will be greatly appreciated. These guys were chosen because, they already run a TOURNY or LEAGUE with major support, have an active members list already established, & have displayed dedication essential to success. This in no way is set in stone, only a place to get started.thmbsp$ any Major events or areas with significant membership, that may have been overlooked please make yourself known.

all points good
 

but you have to think back to PHILLY MIGGLE convention when I and other coaches sat down on a FRIDAY night to put together a nation rule set. it worked for MIGGLE, but coaches still did not opt to use these rules in there rules. then came REGGIE'S TEXAS SHOOT-OUT-RULES and most LEAGUES have gone to these rules. I for one have played all the different rules in my travels in tournaments.
KEN, coaches came west to play in CANTON to compete, not because the CBSMF will be in LAS VEGAS next year. love to see you in L.A. next year at the OPEN RUN.



BRONCOMAN