The Usage Of Al Reveena's Spring Leg Kickers In Tourney's) Why Are Their Handcuff's
 

COACHES,


Why are their handcuff's on the usage of al reveena's spring leg kickers in tourney's or just period ? If he offers them to everyone, isn't it up to you the coaches, to try and build the best team possible ! Also, boat bases and any other kind of base, if you can find it, why cant we use it. Isn't that part of scouting to build the best team. Did the patriots say you cant send the fridge perry into the lineup as a rb to score a td in the superbowl. The great smitty ravens is right, the mpfl will be the future style of play. The multi stops allow you to develop plays instead of waiting for plays to develop.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE HANDCUFF'S YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE LIFTED.

I said this a million times, the entire weight issue has to give somewhere. Like in the nfl, dont they see to it that their lineman are big and strong and weigh what they weigh. You dont see a rule where a lineman has to have a max weight of 250lbs, anything over they cant play. All im am saying is, let us build what we have to build and do what we have to do. If your a coach that comes to a game with lineman at 3.3 per say, and the other coaches line is 4.5, then shame on you for not realizing your line should be stronger.


Back to the kickers, it's great that their is a guy who can fix a kicker to work beautifully that everyone has access to, as opposed to fumbling around with 4 to 5 kickers to get one that works. If BASE TWEAKING IS SO ALLOWED, let the KICKERS be tweaked also. THE SAME CAN GO FOR THE TTCQB THROWING ARM, if their is a way to get better zip on the ball then what's the big deal.

LET US PUT A BALL TEAM TOGETHER AND STOP WITH THESE MICKEY MOUSE LITTLE ROAD BLOCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!


THE OCEAN IS ANGRY MY FRIEND, ANGRY I TELL YA

It's not going to be pleasant in " IN THE DARTS OF TEXAS"

Al's Kickers
 

Dre'

I too don't understand people's fears in banning certain figures, bases, and weights. Al recorded an entire segment on how to create the Spring Loaded Kicker. It's coming out on our DVD. As a matter of fact, the very first TTQ made by Tudor was spring loaded. Check out the 1962 Model #500 set.

People are getting tired of someone eles telling them what they can and can't play with! I understand there needs to be uniformaty, but stunting someone' creativity can push some people away from the hobby.

What if someone came up with a method to make the bases stronger and faster without tweaking or boiling, would they be allowed to play in tournaments and leagues? Probably not! I know a guy who's been on the fringe of this hobby for years because no one will allow him to play with his bases. He came up with an idea to make his bases stronger by examming Tudor's very first toy bases. If you put a boiled or tweaked base up to his, no contest; not even close. He's gonna to blow you out! He has the strongest line in Electric Football and no body will let him play! They think he has an unfair advantage. Why do rules in this hobby try to make everybody the same or attempt to create a "Level Playing Field." Football is Football. As a coach or an organization, I'm trying to get the upper hand, not get them tied by somebody eles rules.

Remember how you played this game when you were a kid? Creativity and fun!
That is the spark that draws guys back into this hobby! You remembered, and you found out that you can relive those childhood memories as a matured adult, still able to use your creativity in creating figures, painting, and playing.

I really believe that's one of the reasons why we don't see the brothers from the West Coast. We stunt their creativity, but the real reason is that we are afraid that they may have something that may be more superior. And if they do, you play them until you figure out how to stop them!

In 40 years, this game has not changed in how it's played! Maybe that's why we can't get the attention of the younger generation. This is a visual, tactile generation, and we can't get them to play Electric Football? You want them to buy a ton of bases and TTQ's just to find a jem! They are not going to do that!

Smitty
BMEFA

play them until you figure out how to stop them...
 

...exactly!

I thought Al liked wearing handcuffs. :D

I know the MFCA rules for skills competitions do not allow any additions to the kicker. That's how we set it up for this year because we needed a starting point. But since the MFCA is owned by the coaches these rules can be changed by a vote.

Because of timing and fairness to all who have already prepared or are preparing and with competitions near at hand we will complete the seven 2007 regionals and national competitions with the rules we have currently. As soon as this years regionals are completed the regional reps will submit changes they would like to see to the skills rules sets and these will be voted on by the reps and then placed before the membership for approval.

I personally have a spring kicker built from Al's directions. I've never used it in any competitions.

This will be an intersting discussion!

I am VERY interested in allowing new products in. Kickers,QB's,figures.........:D

The subject on the weight issue seems quite simple to me.

#1. 4.0 OL & DL
#2 3.5 TE LB
#3 3.2 WR QB RB DB

In this format you would end up with mismatches as you do in real football. IE 3.2 RB blocking 3.5 LB

Just some thoughts

Geno H

Weirdwolfs right, I don't mind handcuffs. It's that dang cattle prod that I don't like, it leaves marks!

But back to the discussion at hand. I would love to see open competition for kickers. The post is still up at Miggle, ball point pens are everywhere. So what's the problem??? Why is it fair to change a base any way you want, but not a TTQB? I still don't understand why there has to be so many rules. If you want to play 3.2, then make it so that you can do anything to the player and base that you want, as long as the total is 3.2 or less. I haven't done a full experiment yet, but I doubt that there would be much difference between weighing down a figure by adding weight under the base, or adding multiple layers of clearcoat to the man. Either way you look at it, you're adding weight!

As far as kickers go, you can add a spring to make him kick farther, but you still have to be able to aim the guy. The spring just makes him more consistant and durable. Viva le spring!!!!!:eek:

Just my take
 

We used kickers with the old pen springs attached around there leg, about 30 years ago its the only way these guys would hit a FG beyond 20 yards . Is that disallowed, thats crazy.

Spring Loaded....
 

...You should be able to use whatever kind of base, kicker, TTQB, or figure(ie in a actual football pose) as long as it doesn't give an UNFAIR advantage. And since the post was put up on miggle for everyone to see ( Al drag the post to this site) then it's not unfair. Let's put it in this context when teams use to think it was unfair to foward pass right. Until they learned now everyone passes. Let's take the cuffs off, weight, types of figures(ie company) , and kickers.

Darrian

Att Weirdwolf And All Coaches, ( Lets Change Jan 1st 2008)
 

WEIRDWOLF AND ALL COACHES ALIKE,

Can we move to get an online petition to make changes for 2008. I can live with what geno say's 4.0, 3.5 and 3.2 weight break downs. Altering the ttqb for passing and kicking (springs on both if possible). Bases, any base is allowed if you have it in your camp. Imagine a game between two coaches that have 11 boiled bases on one team and 11 munro bases on the other (just go get it on). That is a great phrase that was mentioned, "play them until you stop them", that's how football is played anyway right. This entire hobby is going in the direction we all envisioned, but we must leave some of the old way's of thinking behind.

A coach should be doing field work right now to get at least 10 boat bases for his lineman, their out their !!! If a coach boils a base, so what, it's not that hard to find a pot and some water. You can have a starting team with 5 boiled bases and 6 munro bases, or mix them up anyway you like. After all, you are the coach, right.

I would like to hear from some coaches on why they feel the level of play should be equal before a game via their rule set.

Would'nt that be great coaching watching someone create defensive schemes to stop boiled bases.Also, the element of suprise not knowing what your going to face from game to game, munro's, itz's, boiled bases. At the end of a game you cant say he beat me because he had such and such bases, YOUR SUPPOSED TO PREPARE FOR EVERYTHING !!!!!!!!!!! Their are boat bases on the buy and sell forum right now, but nobody's buying them because they are not allowed in leauge's across the country. This mentality has got to stop, if you can find it and buy it, it goes on the field.

I liken this to the boxers in cuba, those guy's are awesome fighters but nobody see's how good they are because castro wont let them go anywhere to fight

MANTAYRAY'S FOOTBALL OFFICES

Al's Invention Enhances the Performance of the Game
 

You've heard the saying, "When it ain't broke, don't fix it", haven't you? I know, the DFW League is one that is innovative, creative, and will do things that handicap most leagues. When new inventions come across the league, I am one that champions that cause. Most people probably don't want the spring action kicker because they never would use it anyhow, just like the Triple Threat QB. So as a way to squelch everyone from using it, let's not have it in. I've seen this with figures, bases, and many other improvements to the game.

You've got to understand, the original manufacturers of the game really wanted passing, kicking, and running in the game. Most media want to really see these skills performed, they really do. You ever have the media ask "How do you pass or kick" and the obligatory answer is usually, "Well, we have other variations of doing those things"?

For us, I remember seeing Al's invention come into the league last year. This was a huge improvement on a product created by Miggle that at that point, was inconsistent and really not up to the old school standard. However, with this addition that Al made to Leron King's player, it enhanced his special teams and helped the league as a whole. Not only that, it helped Miggle because then, there was still a reason to buy questionable kicker products if a guy took the time to invent, a simple, yet ingenious product.

Again, we are looking to bury people for their ingenuity. That's why the hobby gets such a bad rap. Al may not want the fight because just knowing Al like I do, he's modest and really don't like a whole lot of attention drawn to him. However, inventions and ingenuity by individuals should be applauded if they truly elevate the game of miniature football.

At the TSO, these kickers are very much able to play. They can also get injured too! But even in kicking, it's not a sure thing as the board will be on. However, with Al's invention, I know of two or three coaches who kicking percentage went up. What a great invention. And he's been using this for more than 30 years, Yall got to understand, Al's old as dirt and his springs have been sitting in the dust waiting for thier opportunity to help win a game.

Great post Mantaray 'Dre!

Reg

Smitty Is Right
 

Great discussion
 

It's nice to see that players now want to intergrate different styles of bases, this is really refreshing. I think this hobby is going to excel even more with that kind of thinking. Smitty, you are right, most if not all the players on the west coast feel that way, they play with non-boiled bases, boiled bases, boat bases, munro bases, coleco bases, miggle bases, tudor bases, ITZ bases and who ever makes any new bases. CREATIVITY SHOULD NOT BE HANDCUFFED. I have a mixture of all of the above on all my teams now and I was the biggest detractor of NON-BOILED BASES. Time brings wisdom, there is a reason why there are old fools in this world, THEY WERE YOUNG FOOLS.


Vincent Peatros

I like this discussion. Let's automatically look for reasons to include new innovations instead of automatically excluding things because of our fears.

That's what I think is great about David Nichols of the Oxford League. A guy came up from Florida with at least 5 pennies stacked between the base and the player. Instead of disqualifying him or refusing to play, David played him and won. Unfortunately the guy hasn't been back, but it wasn't because his equipment was outlawed.

This guys figures were painted very nice, and it was obvious he took pride in his team, as it should be. We need guys like that. If you automatically disqualify them, you eliminate the chance of something good happening.

Bring on Al's kicker, bring on the boiled bases, bring on the custom figures. Let's play!

Diversity...say YES!
 

There have to be rules in order to define a competition, but a great point was made that we need to be open minded to be progressive. I must admit that when I first started to watch the hobby from the sidelines, the matter of rules always seemed so divisive which really made no sense to me then as it does now.

I think we should embrace the diversity we have in the hobby regarding style of play- the Brawl championship with the divider, the Shootout with its widely accepting equipment rules, Miggle with a traditional set of rules, Buzzball tourney, etc. How about an MPFL tournament to truely establish that style of play because that style is VERY intriguing (you can't coach AND control 11 players in video games!) Our hobby is kind of like golf which has different courses/venues that dictate completely unique styles of play (for any golfers you can appreciate the uniqueness that each of the major tournaments add). I certainly didn't mean to exclude any tournaments by not naming them, but I am still realitively new to the hobby and my whole point here is that we have some great venues and we should enjoy each for what they are- football camaraderie, fun, and friendship. The reason that I'm even on this board is because of a great experience that I had at Jimbo's college tournament in Gary, IN last year. I met some great quality people, had fun kickin it with football enthusiasts, got to compete in a fun style of play, and quite simply enjoyed a "guys day" which was a nice break from being with my little kids 24/7. That was one of my major minature football expieriences that I draw on and it is one of the reasons why I think this is a great hobby. If I had the time I'd have teams made for all of the unique tournaments. So for those of you with a passion for game I say keep inventing and keep innovating and be sure to post your new ideas at this site!

Joe

OK don't take me wrong on this . I am going to play devils advocate for a second.

Here is my latest invention. It's the lead weight linemen.

Ask your self is this legal to play in your tourney?

My point is that we can't let everything go. There has to be some definition to what we are doing .

As we formed the MFCA one of the first things we put in place was this definition.
The MFCA defines Miniature Football as: Miniature football players on bases which are propelled over a miniature football field through the vibration created by an attached electric motor.

I think that the hobby still has to portray the look and feel of football as much as it can. I don't want to see the day again that someone shows up with 40 layers of clearcoat and all the arms cutoff just to win the game. This is why rules are put in place. That's not saying that rules can't be changed as the hobby progresses but lets make sure that we are moving forward and not backword. In the case of Al's kicker I see it as a forward move. In the case of the guy that stacked 5 pennies under his player, I see that as a backword move whether he won the game or not. Of course that is only my personal opinion.

Ultimately I agree with what Michigan Joe wrote. Embrace the many ways to play and enjoy the company. Most of all have fun and if you are not having fun then either buck for change, start your own league or find a league that fits but always have fun!

In the case of the MFCA skills rules there is no need for a petition. We have a process in place and every coach that is a member will be able to vote on Als kickers after this season of regionals. I look forward to the process and if we can have this many dedicated people casting their votes as we have discussing this topic it will make for a tremendous strides in miniature football.

This is an excellent discusion. Please keep this going.

There Has To Be...
 

...some reasonable semblance of standardization. I would love to see the standard weight limits changed to 4.0, 3.6 and 3.2g, but it's gonna take some time for people to realize that your guys perform better at higher weight than at lower weight. Sure you'll still need that Warrick Dunn, 185lber to scat thru the hole, but the whole defense shouldn't max out the weight scale either!

• OL and DL = 4.0 grams max.
• RBs, TEs and LBs = 3.6 grams max.
• WRs and DBs = 3.2 grams max.

Sorry Geno, but 3.6 is even-steven between 4.0 and 3.2. ;)

As far as the original reason for this post, Dre, I agree something has to be done to improve the Kickers. The new plastic sucks and the older plastic TTQBs are getting scarce. If we don't allow the spring as a legal improvement, then we'll end up using our thumbs to fling the ball thru the uprights. Then the new problem will be to ban those guys that have Eagle Claw hand-trainers!?!?!?!?! ;)

Regarding Weight Distribution
 

(Disclaimer) This again is one of the long-thought out post that I wrote based on my experience in this area. I think I know a little about what you guys are talking about. However, if you feel this is too long for your perusal, don't waste your time reading it.)

One of the reasons we created FF.COM players in the way we did was because of the natural weight distribution. For instance, if you look closely at our lineup of 24 players, their weight is based on what we formulated as average weight of players at each position from the high school, college, and NFL perspective.

The linemen are the heaviest. The O-Linemen and D-Linemen are the heaviest players. The LB's are the next heaviest. RB's are next in line. WR's, DB's, and QB's are similar in weight.

Weight distribuition among these players were calculated to reflect NFL-type standards. The Linemen were to range from 300-275 lbs all the way down to WR's, RB's, QB's ranging from 220-180lbs. We tried to get a general perspective on average weights.

Now, our figures are coming up on 10 years running and even we, in the DFW League see different figures in different manners. Some guys don't see the RB's that I created from real-life NFL players as RB's and linemen as the real life stars I used them from. Everybody see things differently!

With that being said, we tried to formulate a weight distribution concept no matter whether you use FF.COM, Miggle, Buzzball, Wellington, Coleco, Gotham, or anyone else's figures. Mind you, this is about 10 years ago! What we saw as the problem was simply "A Way to Police the Figures".

This is a discussion I had on the Miggle board many years ago with people. I felt there should definitely be some type of difference in weights among positions. The concern was always with how to implement that. Most people thought very negative to most things I was talking about. Maybe now, guys will see more diversity in what I say here.

For instance, we took 3 approaches. One approach was the individual weight concept. This was the concept that was based on our weight charts, all linemen had to be 4.0-3.8 grams. All Tightends had to be 3.6-3.4 grams. All WR's had to be 3.4-3.2 grams. All RBs had to be 3.5-3.3 grams. All DBs had to be 3.4-3.2 grams. All LBs had to be 3.6-3.4 grams. All QBs had to be 3.2 - 3.4 grams.

The other approach was the Unit Approach:
The Offensive and Defensive Unit had to consist of a combined weight of 420 grams. It made no difference how that weight was distributed. If you wanted your DLinemen to weigh 5 grams per player, that meant you would suffer in some other area, whether it be at LB or DB. Or if you wanted a dominate DB, you could have one weigh as much as 6 grams. But do understand that your running game may be the most porous in the league! You follow me?

The 3rd approach was to have a Team Approach:
This consisted of having a cummulative weight of players which could be limited to a certain amount of players. This would allow backups to be counted in as a part of the process as well.

I found that each method had flaws with the "police issues". However, each method works in a solataire environment. When I play alone, all of these methods are used. One of the great things that occur when you combine something like this with the DFW concept of injuries is that such weight distribution approaches can impact the team's ability to win games during the season. If one of your dominate linemen that weighs 5 grams get hurt in week 1, you are SOL because your second teamer may only possibly weigh 3 grams! So careful planning of where you would distribute weight among teams is important. The next question becomes, how would teams know that a certain player can only be used in a certain position? This is simply an issue of registration of all players with the knowledge that such and such player can only play this position during the season.

Again, these are issues we had to deal with as a league. It becomes complicated. The question of honor and ethics always came into play. Not that individual guys are dishonest but everyone wants to win and may illegally put another O-Lineman in for a D-Lineman. You can only injure so many linemen during a season.

So anyhow, from a solataire perspective, I love weight limit concepts. I use it whenever I get the chance to play. But from a league and tournament concept, let me know when this mountain has been scaled. I try to "Think outside the Box" with my league and we would love to incorporate something new to keep the spirit alive.

Again, sorry for the long detailed look at what we do. I think it was important information.

Reginald Rutledge

Question , WHY ?
 

We All Seem To Agree On This Topic
 

COACHES,

We seem to like the idea of diverse weight on our off and def teams, so why are'nt we doing this. lets get a stamp on this for 2008 (new years eve).
implement it throughout the country. I still have not heard anyone give a valid reason why a team should all weigh the same, their are guy's in hotel rooms shaving, cutting and drillng players to make weight, come on now !
It would be beautiful to see a running back take on a linebacker of a different weight, (the lb can get the rb out of the way and make his tackle).

BASES, If you can find it, buy it, and it moves on any field, why cant we use any number of them. An example would be at a seawall brawl event, imagine the divider goes down and the offense is on the 5 yard line. To get the right personel in the game (bases) for a power run up the middle, he elects to put 11 boats bases on the field. The defense in its preparation prior to the game should have expected something like this and devised multiple defensive schemes to stop this.

Imagine the same offensive is on the 50 yard line, divider goes down and the offensive coach elects to put diamond speed bases on muliple receivers(spread offense) To throw a bomb downfield. Behind that divider, you cant see him switching personel (bases) for a particular play. Defense should have prepared for that also in it preparation. ALL COACHING STRATEGY. Like smitty said, he's trying to get the upper hand on his opponents. jIMBO, REG, great breakdowns of the weight issue. It seems we want this so why is'nt it happening. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR AN EXPLANATION ON WHY A TEAM HAS TO BE THE EXACT WEIGHT.

MANTARAY OFFICES

Im With You Ant !!!!!!!!!!
 

HEY ANT,


Im with you also, what im saying is let us put a team together to our liking and lets us go to the playbooks. Like you said, defending the out, also the spread and multiple packages. If a player weighs whatever, your dfensive guy still has to hit him to make the play. Im really glad to see all the great football minds responding to this chat. I would love to hear more from vince peatro's, smitty, reg, wolf, al, don smith, darrian, jimbo, all of the great coaches in ef.

THE DEBATE TIL 2008

MANTARAY OFFICES

I don't know this as fact (still waiting on that CD ;) ) but had heard that only green bases were allowed under your rules. If so, why is that the case? If not then I apologize for mentioning it.

All hobbies have some degree of limits. With the model railroad hobby they had so many different scales of trains that they had to define them into O scale, S scale, N scale, HO scale. It would look silly to have a N scale car on HO scale wheels. They did this to give their hobby validity and realism. The hobby we have has the same problem. Many different scales of size, weight, fields. Maybe the day is near that we have to formulate our hobby into scales. Unless you own a field that is 60 some inches long you are not playing to scale based on the average size of men in production and for many that is just fine.

I think that if we ever want to put this issue to rest with some degree of agreement that we need a committee to formulate the groundrules of scale. Then, you may join a league that plays 6.2 scale or 5.5 scale and we can all co-exist happily.

Time and Place
 

I don't think we'll have a universal standard for a long time, in regards to the basic allowances of bases, the hard-to-find variety (boat, brown, etc). I do dig the stripped down rules for some tournaments, no customs, certain bases allowed, because it does keep things on a level playing field, like training wheels for the new-guy. You sh'd have a team for any situation, right? If you have a no-holds barred, barb-wire/ladder match bring out the arsenal, but if you have a situation where your range is limited, have a team at the ready that fits the specs.

I also agree with the notion that 'if its out there, use it', to a point. Not every coach knows what the equipment is. At this point there is no resource guide which catalogs the stuff; history, usage, power/speed dynamics. Nor does everyone have the funds to buy all these things. Here we find ourselves in murky waters, nearing elitism, secrecy, evil Steinbrenner shizzle:eek: I'm not proposing to coddle the newbies, but we must ensure encouragement and the proper information be at hand to help them along.

I've seen the spectrum in my brief time here, fellowship and shadiness. I think before we can grow we need to step back and take the time to cultivate the rookies, and build this thing bigger and bigger, double our numbers, create the monsters, then set 'em loose.

Be a big brother to the new guys, spread the love. I see these things in bloom, and its awesome, but it has to spread deep, far, and wide.

As always I did not intend to offend anyone, any system, any idea. I am simply adding my theories to the communal pee-pot. I appreciate greatly all of yours.

To My Electric Brethren,
Salut!

he he he...he said peepot!

Sorry had to take a breath.

:D

One important thing to remember.
 

Coaches,

I am ALL for changes,but with one thing being kept in the front of all our minds. Do we want change to the point that the equipment some of you have had since childhood becomes obsolete. I know I dont. It is just as intriguing knowing you can still use figures from the 60's and they can compete. So with the changes we as coaches make let us not lose sight and become an arms race. In other words change within the size dimensions that we now have. Keep it all to the same scale it is now.


Geno H

P.S. Jimbo no problem on the weight thingy that was just an example.:D

let me add something to the mix
 

[quote=childslovegame;11193]
What if someone came up with a method to make the bases stronger and faster without tweaking or boiling, would they be allowed to play in tournaments and leagues? Probably not! I know a guy who's been on the fringe of this hobby for years because no one will allow him to play with his bases. He came up with an idea to make his bases stronger by examming Tudor's very first toy bases. If you put a boiled or tweaked base up to his, no contest; not even close. He's gonna to blow you out! He has the strongest line in Electric Football and no body will let him play! "

Smitty, give his name and number, I need some of that talent on my team!!!:D :D

As for the topic at hand, We all know that the last item to be upgraded is the TTQB/Kicker. The fact that for me, it took a long time for me to be able to understand how to pass with it. But once I learned the skill, it was easy to teach others. Kicking was not that hard, but once the plant-leg was hurt well he was no longer a good kicker.

I pickup enough of Al's kickers to have everyone in my league to have one, if they wanted, to make it a non rule issue. Most of the guys choose NOT to get one but they were allowed. It did not improve the kicking game because (1) nobody kicks FG's; (2) PAT were basicly automatic because there was no rush on the kicker;(3) going for 2pt.

Now as for weight of players -

I like the idea of different weight for different positions on the field. Seems like a logical thing to do. Thanks for the break downs guys, but if you look at the current way we do figures now, the concept that RR mentions could already be in place.
Most figures out the bag DO NOT WEIGH 2.0. we build them up to that point or trim them down to that size. Because it was the standard that was agreed upon once we (old EF-heads) began sharing experiences in the 1990's.

We could put DB on rookie bases instead of TTc bases and that would keep them in the 2.5-2.9 range. However, not a winning formula for some.

Just like guys who love FOB or ATT, they have their reasons for playing that way. I love FOB because you have to build your team to make football plays. You actually have to shed a block and make a tackle. It allows the ball carrier some 'break-away' abillity. You might get killed of you ran a 2-man line, etc. However, not everyone plays this way which is not a bad thing just making a point.

in the slotted weight idea, it may work out early one, but it requires everyone to buy into the concept. I am sure down the line, a Lavon Kirkland will pop up on defense (4.0 LB) or a William Perry in the backfield because it gets back to winning at that point - that is another reason why we play, right??

I don't play weighted because I don't want to spend the extra time on building that type of team. Not to say I can't, I just don't wan to spead extra time building my squad ....

For the new guys:
FOB-Front Of base tackling
ATT- Any Touch Tackling

Decal Master, we need that glossary asap....

Andre,
Nothing personal here, just trying to make my point on limits.

I'm still wondering if my lead weight lineman would be legal in Andre's League. If he is legal then I don't agree with that definition of MF, If he isn't legal then isn't that a limitation?

By the way, this is the best discussion yet on the MFCA forum!
I will return later. I am off to do unimportant things like my job.:D

Answer
 

OK, But
 

Attn: Anthony Burgess
 

Anthony,

I could not agree more! I have always thought there really was no need to change the color of the base. To me, it was simply a marketing strategy to get you to buy more.

We allow the coaches to paint the purple bases, orange bases, or whatever other bases you have. However, some coaches think that one color over another will give them an advantage. From that perspective, my thinking is whatever makes you feel you can win, use them.

But me personally, I have always saw the base and field as one item blended together.

Reginald

I actually prefer a green base over any other so I am in agreement with you on that.

Some of what I have heard from some in this discussion is a "anything goes" mentality. Limits have to be set to protect the integrity of the game. Green bases in the MPFL protects the integrity of the look and feel of that game. Size and weight limits do that also.

I like innovation! I just don't want to see us creating 2 in high figures by adding sculpey just to win. There has to be a line drawn somewhere as to how far you can go and still call it miniature football. Otherwise whats to stop me from using the new Mcfarlane 2 in high figures in a game if I can fit them on a base. Much of what we do is about scale. I really want us as a community to define a scale for what we are doing so that if someone decides that they have a better chance of winning if their figure is 5 mm higher then what is now produced we have something to control that with.

Man I am loving this discussion...:)

i haven't read every post, but from what i can gather everyone is itching to update the accepted rules/regulations standard that has been in place for a long time. what if instead of doing away with the old standard entirely, it's broken up into different groups of difficulty.

easy (for beginners)
intermediate (restricted to traditional methods of pass/pass placement/kick/etc...and regular base tweaking)
advanced (come one, come all. boiled bases/ spring loaded kickers/ etc...)


there could even be a chaotic division where anything really does go (ok, maybe not:D ).

Yo Smitty, send him out to LA, we'll let him play! As a matter of fact this is what I've been looking for. Have him holla at me so I can get some pointers on his technology!

310-569-1245

Dave Campbell

What Would You Like To See If On Tv
 

COACHES,


Lets say espn had a special channel called "espn miniature games" where ef was the sunday spotlighted game. As a new person just watching for the first time ever, when you cut the tv on, what would impress you so much that you had to get into the hobby. FOR ME >>>>>>>>>>>>

1) The look of the game for starters (stadiums, big fields). i would love to see a digital scoreboard with crowd noise affixed to it.

2) The players ( what we have now, decaled to the max)

3) The pace of the game, if it's like watching baseball, the channel will be turned. Game has to be up-tempo with clocks moving coaches moving and devising plays, noise going, lkke a real game.

4) Bases, bases moving so effortlessly north to south that play calling is a breeze

WHAT WILL TAKE THIS SPORT TO NEW HEIGHTS IN YOUR OPINION?
HEY REG, CAN YOU MAKE THOSE BIG SCOREBOARDS HAPPEN

Ill get back to the meat of the situation, i just would like to hear your thoughts that can be incorporated into what we are discussing. Remember, your just a big nfl fan and just happen to turn the channel and saw this game going on. (It can be anything you would like to see that made you go "oh shut your mouth" i got to get this game."

mantaray offices

P.S- Ifyou did not know what a base was, what would make you say, what is that, those thing are cool?

Let's remember that any rules we come up with will have to be enforced. I know from helping with the Bama Blast for 10 years, that time is a real issue. Most of our tournaments are played on weekends, and if a lot of guys show up, you are pushed to get your games in. Weighing in every team, and individual players takes a lot of time.

I think Anthony is onto something when he says the style of play needs to be addressed, but you have to consider the time to play those types of games.

K-lo mentioned that most guys don't kick and if they do it's an abbreviated version for the sake of saving time. Special teams is almost ignored in our hobby.

I'm not talking about league games, where time is not as much a factor, but I'm speaking of tournaments. These are the times when we all get together and the hobby is in all it's glory. If we are ever on TV, it will be a scaled down version of a football game. They won't give us the time to play to the detail that some guys are speaking of.

I also like the professional image issue that has be spoken of, but I know several guys that wouldn't buy that for a minute. They would just branch off and do their own thing as they always have. They like their teams just the way they are.

First of all, I have to agree with Wolfboy in that this is the most rational, intelligent post I've seen in a long time. Undoubtably due to the fact that GBGlenn has yet to say anything. :D :D But let's be real here. There has to be some sort of rules reguarding the equipment used. Every sport has some sort of rules to make it fair to everyone competing. Imagine NASCAR with no rules. You would have guys bolting 747 jet engines into cars with 400 gallon gas tanks so that they wouldn't have to stop.

We need to have some rules or it becomes a free for all. Would you really want to play that way? Imagine playing against someone who glues magnets under his defensive linemen. You can't move them so your running back just runs into them for no yards. With his 4 linemen plugging up the line, he can use the remaining 7 to be sure your recievers have no chance at all of getting anywhere. Sound like fun?? Or maybe using GI Joe dolls with a base strapped to each foot? As you can see, the game can degenerate pretty quickly. Nope, there has to be some sort of sane, reasonable limit to the weights and sizes of the players. What I don't understand is why some guys feel like they have to play with figures that weigh 5, 6, 7 or more grams. What's wrong with 3 - 3.5 or somewhere near there? A standard Miggle figure with a rookie base weighs around 2.3 - 2.5 grams. Painted, maybe 2.7 or 2.8 That's quite a bit of weight you have to add to them to get them up to the 3.2 limit most leagues use. What is the difference between playing with all teams at 3.2, or all teams at 5.0? Why is it someone always has to try and have an upper hand by making his team just a little bit heavier than someone else?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, why do guys always have to feel like they need to do something to give them that extra edge over the next guy? Why can't they just play with even teams and let the coaching abilities decide who wins? Maybe what we need is an IROC approach. I'll hold a Ravenna Al Inventational. Each coach will get one of my teams. All built more or less the same, untweaked rookie bases, each team could beat another team on any given Sunday. No tampering with bases. You just have to use them the way you get them. The rule of play will change between games. You might play ATT one game, FOB the next. TTQB, passing sticks or passing dice changing from game to game. The coach who can best adapt his playing style using the same equipment as the other coaches will win. And, as an extra kicker, spring kickers allowed.:cool:

Why Do You Buy What You Buy
 

COACHES,

What factors in the choice of the equipment you buy /

1) Why do you buy certain bases and not others ?

2) Why do you buy certain figures and not others ?

3) Why do you have the size field that you have ?

4) Why do you play the style that you play ?


I for one buy figures according to their look, i just happen to love reggies, itz's, bill porches fig's. I buy for the look where as others may buy for performance or that paticular fig would fit nicely on their team. If i buy fig's due to the look, i want that player on my team, even if it's above the old standard weight. Alot of coaches say that the haiti repro's are the best performing fig's in electric football, i dont like the way they look so i dont want them on my team, that's just my personal pref ! We know reggies fig's are heavier than the haiti repro's. when i said put on the field what you like, both coaches know the weight diff between the 2. If your team is full of haiti's because they perform the best and mine full of reggies because i like the look, why cant we just get it on (WE BOTH KNOW THE WEIGHT DIFF, IT'S NO SECRET) It's just 2 coaches liking different fig's and that's their team. Would'nt you want to coach and try to out perform the reggie figs if you had the haiti's. SO HOW DO WE HAVE THIS GAME ON COMMON GROUND.


BASES- Why do you guy's choose your bases, i like the polo green bases (miggle) because you dont have to do much tweaking, they are pretty decent right off the sprue. "that's just me"

Fields- Why do you play on a regular superbowl field or 620 as opposed to a scale size board, a ff.com 308 board etc etc, vice versa also. I have the 308 and love it, i like the openess (size) to do certain things. I also want a scale size board also. I have a regular miggle superbowl field for praticing. I love watching sweeps develop and it's hard if the board is not wide enough

I WOULD LOVE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS !!!!!!!!!!! I WANT TO HEAR FROM SOME WEST COAST COACHES ALSO.

MANTARAY OFFICES

I wanna see the New Q.B.!?..
 

*** Hey fella's, I the old kid back on the new block of evolution of EFL, and I'v been entertained alot by you all.
And just to put in a little perspective to what I saw "after 20 years of no EFL games being sold in Oklahoma since 1999" .
I saw beautiful things in what you all do, Sporty things, and yeah, some Weird things too.
The weird thing was the Color bases or course. I read colums and some of you have the same realizim i'm tunned to want to see. All Green Bases, Blending in to fit the descibtion that's promoting the Game called FOOTBALL!
I is distracting to look at all these souped up, good lookin figures, standing on a colorfull green field with a NEON COLORED BASE!?
It's true, I looks more kiddish like that?, too me, and now i'm not the only one who thinks it's ugly lol, that's the only reason I kept my thoughts to myself on it, but today, I see you all going at it lol.