FG Kicking Chart
 

Just threw this together using the NFL %'s Could come in handy for people that are not able to physically use a kicker. I've based it on percentile dice (aka. two 10 sided dice) so if you already use "the box" you should already have the dice in it.

Hope it helps someone!

FG Chart Using % dice

FG Chart Using two 6 sided dice

Interesting. I may give it a try.

i like that chart. but im a simpleton, is there a way to transfer these numbers to 2- regular dice, the 6-sided kind?

sorry Mark. Not really. At least not with any semblance of accuracy. But since I'm a such a wonderful person (LOL) I'll see what I can do for you. Give me a few minutes to BS the numbers.

Alright Mark. It's the best I can BS for ya. I had to simplify it down to good or miss. It's not quite as accurate but it's close!

Using two 6 sided dice

That was a unholy pain in the arse :rtfl: haven't done that much math in a while ;)

wow. thanks. i may give it a try on my tudor classic championship solitaire 2010 tourney tommorow.

Ver interesting
 

chart Shane. I may try this every once in a while when I don't feel like hopping up and actually kicking the ball.

Reg

Love it
 

Simply love it.....with the passing stick and your kicking chart, we're on business without the TTQB (for those who play solitaire).


Thank you again and have a great day

Benster

Let's Look at Passing ...
 

This is good work, Hoop, and something I'm going to seriously consider implementing into my ECFA and EPFA play.

I've been doing a lot of thinking and calculating today with regard to passing accuracy and how it relates to electric football. Through the games I've played in the ECFA, the throws I actually make hit about 2/3rds of the time. The completion percentages for the QBs are lower than that, of course, due to throw aways and Box-induced incompletions and interceptions.

Based on the dice rolls, when you shake the box there is roughly a 3% chance of the pass being incomplete. I've added a rule where if this double 2s dice roll comes up, another dice roll is done and if they total 2 or 12, the pass is intercepted. However, in the grand scheme of things, this chance was very low.

I've also not had many penalties, so I might jack that possibility up, and I came up with this:

Double 1s: Fumble
Double 2s: Incomplete
Double 3s: Intercepted
Double 4s: Minor Penalty
Double 5s: Minor Penalty
Double 6s: Major Penalty

I've decided against using injuries for now, so I'm not accounting for them on the chart.

Now, here's another way to deal with passing. In research I've done today, NCAA Division I-A quarterbacks completed 59.7% of their passes (roughly 60%) during the 2010 season. The average team had 12 passes intercepted in 374 throws.

Put to two 10-sided dice, this would read:

01-60 COMPLETE
61-97 INCOMPLETE
98-00 INTERCEPTED

Sounds simple, right? But here's the problem. This assumes that every pass is the same - that your receiver who is open 55 yards down field has the same chance of catching the ball as the running back in the flat just 10 yards away from your quarterback. This shouldn't be. To me, the short passes should be easier and the longer passes should be harder, so you'd have something like this:

0-20 yards:
01-70 COMPLETE
71-99 INCOMPLETE
00 INTERCEPTED

21-40 yards:
01-50 COMPLETE
51-97 INCOMPLETE
98-00 INTERCEPTED

41-yards plus:
01-30 COMPLETE
31-95 INCOMPLETE
96-00 INTERCEPTED

Remember, the majority of the passes likely to be thrown are going to be in that first category, so the lower completion opportunities at longer distances shouldn't distort the overall completion percentage of a quarterback too greatly from that original 59.7% number.

I even went through, and based on 2010 stats, produced chart unique to each of my 14 teams:

COMP. INC. INT. TEAM
01-66 67-96 97-00 OHIO STATE
01-66 67-98 99-00 KENTUCKY
01-65 67-98 99-00 OKLAHOMA
01-63 64-97 98-00 FLORIDA STATE
01-63 64-96 97-00 MICHIGAN
01-61 62-97 98-00 FLORIDA
01-59 60-96 97-00 VIRGINIA
01-59 60-96 97-00 TEXAS
01-59 60-97 98-00 NEBRASKA
01-56 57-95 96-00 ILLINOIS
01-56 57-98 99-00 SYRACUSE
01-56 57-95 96-00 PURDUE
01-56 57-96 97-00 CLEMSON
01-55 56-97 98-00 BYU

The other part to consider is, and I haven't worked up charts or done the research on this yet ... but how did teams do defensively stopping the pass, to the point that it would affect the offensive team's ratings? If Oklahoma is 1-65 on completions, but face an Ohio State team that, for example, only allowed 45% completions by opposing passers during the season, does the number get adjusted to 1-55? Not sure how deep I'd want to get into that.

I don't know if I'm going to use these charts in my solitaire game play or not. I like using the TTQB to throw the football. But in the effort to speed up gameplay, I could probably play 40-minute quarters instead of 60-minute quarters by using some version of the passing charts above, along with the FG chart already included above in this thread.

Ed wnnrcgr shkthbx: $br#

Ed I really think you are onto something with the completion ratio to the length of the pass. I may give it a shot.

Thanks. I was realllllllly bored at work today. Thankfully, Yahoo has stats lists for college football that copy perfectly into an Excel spreadsheet, so I could let it do the calculations.

Amazing stat: Georgia Tech, who of course runs most of the time, was dead last in the country, completing 38% of their passes, and I think they only threw about 10 times a game.

Ed wnnrcgr shkthbx: $br#

Ed, Take a look at this and let me know what you think. I took your idea and put a little spin on it.

0-20 yards
01-70 Complete
71-99 INCOMPLETE
00 INTERCEPTED

21-40 yards:
01-50 COMPLETE
51-97 INCOMPLETE
98-00 INTERCEPTED

41-yards plus:
01-30 COMPLETE
31-95 INCOMPLETE
96-00 INTERCEPTED

Double 1s: Fumble
Double 2s: Incomplete
Double 3s: Intercepted
Double 4s: Minor Penalty
Double 5s: Minor Penalty
Double 6s: Intangible Chart

Intangible Chart

1-3 Ball batted at line and intercepted by nearest lineman. Down at spot.
4-10 Ball batted down at line. Incomplete Pass
11-12 Bad exchange FUMBLE. Go to recovery chart.
13 Bad exchange FUMBLE. Nearest lineman returns. All chase.
14-20 PRESSURE- QB must run.
21-29 PRESSURE- QB throws ball out of bounds.
30-31 PRESSURE- Intentional Grounding. 10 yd Penalty Loss of Down.
32-50 Pass Complete
51-65 Pass Incomplete
66 Pass hits referee- Incomplete
67-70 Pass tipped in secondary. Diving Interception by nearest defender. Down at spot.
71-75- Pass tipped in secondary. Diving catch by receiver. Down at spot.
76-80- Pass complete. Only 1 defensive chaser.
81-83- Perfect pass complete. No defensive chasers.
84-90- PRESSURE- Pass up for grabs. ( evens complete at spot…odds intercepted at spot.
91-93- QB Sacked and FUMBLE. Go to recovery chart.
94 QB Sacked and FUMBLE. Nearest lineman returns. All chase.
95-96- Pass complete but receiver Fumble on contact. Recovery chart.
( If receiver makes it OB no fumble) .
97-98- Pass intercepted by nearest defender. All chase.
99-00 Nearest defender jumps route. INTERCEPTED. No chasers.

I actually really like that idea. Kind of like implementing the Rare Play chart from APBA football.

The only change I'd make is that for double 5s, I'd go major penalty to make sure that's still accounted for. But otherwise, I think that would definitely work.

I hope some of the other solo players are seeing this discussion - could be revolutionary stuff for folks if they're interested. Lot of great minds are on the solitaire kick right now and it's great to see!

Ed wnnrcgr shkthbx: $br#

I agree double 5s should be a major penalty.

It's funny you mentioned APBA. I played their Baseball game for years and they always incorporated odd plays.

I love to innovate and create situations that can actually happen during the game. This chart can be a template and the results can be arranged by any coach to fit in their solitaire league. There may even be other things added that I might have missed.

I already have something like this in place in my league and these akward results to pop up every so often. Example; My Super Bowl 47 Tournament Buffalo lines up for a 23 yard field goal to win the game with :02 on the clock. Looks like a sure Buffalo win. What happens the intangible play comes up. The kick is blocked and the Vikings win the Super Bowl. These intangible results are very random but somtimes determine a teams fate just like the real game.

I was not a fan of dice.....
 

.........at all when I started. Several weeks into my first season I went to dice for play calling, for obvious reasons, and am constantly imporving my system there. Recently I've added dice for fumbles, penalties, and injuries useing Regie's chart as a starting point. I'm not liking the injuries but mostly because my teams have few if any subs. The penalties and fumbles I think I like.

I too like to use the the TTQB and utilize the ATTAC passing stystem. It gives the defense a chance to react to the pass, involves the skill of the reciever to 'hit' the spot the ball was thrown to, and lets me toss it with the TTQB. I get it all. So, I don't see using charts for passing myself, for now anyway.

I do see one other thing to consider in your passing charts however. A QB's completion percentage can very greatly based on the game situation. For example, in the fist quarter a defense is going to play it safe, so to speak, and feel the opponent out some, I'm talking real football now, and recievers may be more open than later in the game when corners play more press man and bump and run, and defenses tend to blitz more. As the end of the game approaches the team in the lead tends to go to more prevent type defenses. Thus, QB's tend to complete a higher percentage of passes early and late in games.

This is just one example. There are other game situations that would effect pass completion percentages.

I do suppose it all averages out in the end but it may be worthy of consideration to account for game situation as well in a pass simulation chart.

Just thinking out loud.......

The more input the better. I know alot of guys like to actually use the TTQB and actually throw the ball or you may use the passing sticks. I am not trying to talk anyone out of what they do but this is an alternative way to pass and it does speed up the game if you play by a clock. There are so many ideas and great football minds in this association anything is possible. Keep it coming.

I've played APBA baseball for some 25 years now. Still roll a few games each night. Working presently on a 1927 and a 1979 season replay. Just started the '27 one and am in the first week; have just about hit Memorial Day in the '79 season. That's the first year I remember watching baseball, so it's a standout season for me.

Ed wnnrcgr shkthbx: $br#

You guys are posting monsters!
 

You each posted twice while I was typing my two cents worth. I REALLY like that last idea with the intangibles chart. Your not trying to but you may have just changed my mind.

I often think about all the wacky things that 'can' happen in a real game but just can't be simulated in MF; like batted passes or even passes hitting the ref.

A person could still go ahead and toss the ball with the TTQB when the roll of dice didn't come up with some alternate senario. In my case, I could roll the dice any outcome that you have listed as 'completed pass' would require me to still throw the ball with the TTQB and if successful have the reciever run to the stick. This would still allow for an actual on the field interception if the defense was adjusted and got to the 'spot' the ball was thrown to first.

Doing it all may slow the game down a little though.......oh well!

Game time is actually what has started leaning me toward a passing chart.

I love the game, and I wanted a solo league where players would get the chance to stand out. Like in the last BYU-Ohio State game, the QB and RB (1-back offense) combined for something like 33 carries. I want guys to have a chance to tote the rock or pass a lot. I want guys on defense to have a chance to make 7-10 tackles a game if they are a stand out (the current record is 12).

But to do that required the 60-minute quarters, so my games run about 4.5 hours. Far too long for one sitting, even with as much as I love to play.

So if by using a passing chart I can turn the clock back to 40 minutes a quarter, for example, but still get the same number of plays in roughly, then it's definitely worth it. I like the idea of getting 80-90 offensive snaps a game, but I do want to find a quicker way to do it, and I think using the charts we have talked about today would help do that.

Ed wnnrcgr shkthbx: $br#

I hope Hoop isn't mad that we kinda beat his thread up with a sledge hammer. :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:

Hopefully the information and thoughts we've come up with are helpful to folks.

Ed wnnrcgr shkthbx: $br#

Time is a huge factor......
 

.....see my latest league update: http://www.miniaturefootball.com/for...ad.php?t=20768

Can I hijak a hijacked post here?

I have a software program, for my highschool teams real games, that I also use to track all my MF game stats including time. Some of the reports it will generate can also be seen on the above post.

I use 8:00 minute quarters. Plays on which the clock in a real game would keep running expire one minute. Plays on which the clock in a real game would stop running expire 30 seconds. Each team gets three timeouts per half. A time out cuts 20 seconds off the amount of time that would otherwise expire.

I just looked back and my last three games have had 57, 53, and 45 plays. This is a much smaller number of plays than you guys are getting but my stats are comparable.

It still takes me probably four hours though to play a game. Entering stats every snap, taking a few pictures, and having to stop more than I'd like to slow it down though.

To bring it back to the topic which originally hijaked this thread......I wonder how much passing charts would help?

For me, using a passing chart would eliminate time used to get in position to throw the pass, to put the ball on the TTQB properly, and to line up the pass, and to throw the pass. It also would eliminate any question as to whether I hit the pass or not.

So I'm betting that on each pass play, this would save 30-40 seconds. My next game, Syracuse vs. Clemson, I'm going to run 40-minute running clock quarters with the passing and FG charts, still doing the 5-minute end-of-half stoppage rules, and see where the number of snaps end up at. I'm betting it's going to be similar.

I'm going to use the team-specific passing charts I made up, along with the yardage and rare play innovations that Mike and I came up with. I'm very curious to see how it plays out.

Ed wnnrcgr shkthbx: $br#

Let us know.....
 

how it goes.

I used to hate using the TTQB as well because I couldn't ever see if the ball hit let along all the time I spent looking for the darn thing after I missed. I looked into stick passing for that reason and found the ATTAC system. The spinner target elminated seeing if it hit problem. White balls solved the other problem. They seem to work better and are easier to findppls$

LOL not at all. This has me thinking a bit about the passing numbers you came up with, and researching what the highest completion percentages have been etc.

My only question is with the frequency of the rare play chart coming up. You have a 1 in 36 chance of a rare play coming up, and I'm wondering if you might be better served that instead of rolling the two six sided dice as is normal in the box switching those out for 10 sided dice, doing something like this..

Double 1s: Fumble
Double 2s: Fumble
Double 3s: Intercepted
Double 4s: Minor Penalty
Double 5s: Minor Penalty
Double 6s: Fumble
Double 7s: Minor Penalty
Double 8s: Intercepted
Double 9s: Major Penalty
Double 0s: Intangible Chart

My thinking is if you are going to have a percentage based passing for complete and incomplete like you have set there, you shouldn't need to have incomplete passes in the dice roll. Also I added the major penalty. The intangibles and major penalties only have a 1 in 100 chance of coming up on a shake which would make it a rarer occurrence but still possible.

Basically the other thing this changes is the frequency of how often a doubles result is rolled. with the six siders it is a one in six chance, now it's a one in ten chance of something occurring on a play, and each one of these options has a 1% chance of coming up, in the case of fumbles as an example it is a 3% chance of happening on any given play.

Thoughts?

I like this. After 30 plus years of kicking field goals anextra points with a good football and kicker its hard to miss in solitaire. Using dice would be fun.
Where would I find 10 sided dice.

I use the fumble rule that if your tackled by two defense players at same fumble. Roll two six sided dice even goes off odd to defense ball down at that point. In 80 plays game I usually get two a game. I don't know if I want to add fumblewith dice yet working on that. I will start Field Goals and PATs because more are missed in real life that in the WCFA. My league is more run. I do use the passing sticks. That way I can't play favorites.

I also looking at adding penalties besides holding and pass interference. So reg chart will be added also.
I want to keep the game fun.

But i will be willing to try.

I am considering using dice more.......
 

.......if for no other reason than to save time by getting away from the TTQB, but for now I just like using it and I have no pressure to finish anything by a certain time so...........

I do use dice for play calling though and may have to go to a larger die there as well. Since my teams mimic real highschool teams the playbooks very from 12 plays to as many as 30+. That's just the offense which is still growing and I have started developing defensive play calling with dice as well.

So, some teams use as many as four of five dice to call a play. Two problems with this. As more plays are developed it decreases the odds greatly of certain plays being called, but what is more frustrating to me is that without developing a large number of different charts it does not allow for game situation play calling and in game adjustments; at least not without me staying impartial.

I have the plays listed based on four different down and distance senarios and am happy with how that is working so far. But, in my current game, one team's line is just dominating the oher side. The other side needs to change up it's play calling which would require me to stop and realign the plays based on the likely results of the dice. I'm not sure how to deal with that one yet. Right now I have one 'choice' option as a play call that allows me to choose the play they will run. Other than that it's completely random based the probablility of the dice roll which I have aligned with that team's tendancies in real life.

Thoughts?

Homework
 

I am home sick today so I decided to do some homework on these charts. I have used my charts for years updating them and changing them when I think of smething.

Length of game- I have that Miggle electric scoreboard so I play 15:00 quarters.

The clock stops for:

Change of possession- kickoffs, punts and turnovers
Any scoring play.
Penalties.
Incomplete passes and runs out of bounds only inside of 2 mionutes in the first half and the final 5 minutes of the game.

I also stop the clock briefly after a completion or interception to align the the defenders toward the ball carrier.

It takes a little over 2 hours 15 minutes to play a standard game without keeping stats after every play. Keeping the stats adds about a half an hour more. That is still around 3 hours a game.

I went back to my last 3 Super Bowls where I did write down the result of every play. The number of plays per game were 70, 74 and 82 plays.

I played 2 games today using the new pass charts.As for the new passing chart I roll 2 standard 6 sided dice with the dots before I throw the 10 siders. If no doubles came up I proceded to roll the 2 10 sided dice and tok the number to the coorisponding pass chart. In the two games the double ones came up 4 times. Double 2s- 0 Double 3s- 1 Double 4s- 2 Double 5s-1 and the biggie the double 6s forthe intangible chart came up once in each game. Results were a bad exchange fumble with return and the other was an incomplete pass.

I am going to continue to use this system tweaking it a little bit as I go along and I will pass along the results.

Mike V.

Check locally for a specialty gaming store. They will likely carry board games, D&D, warhammer, magic the gathering cards. (most likely place) Or you can always get some off of ebay.

that is where you will find 10 siders. and no they are not expensive.

I like these ideas keep it up.

You guys really have on your thinking caps!
 

I haven't played solitaire since the 80's but the charts would seem like the way to go.

You guys actually did research as well to come up with more realistic numbers.

I'm just thinking out loud here, and maybe this would be too anal (can I say that:eek: :confused: ) All your calculations are as a whole, but do you care that Peyton would pass better than the browns QB, whoever that would be. Like if you are playing with a great passer, should his chances/chart be different than that of a bad passer?

I'm a TTQB all the way, but I always like seeing other techniques. I think that attak passing system is awesome as well!!!thmbsp$ thmbsp$ thmbsp$


the F.O.T.H. is Nat'l

The most in depth way you could do it is average out the QB accuracy rating vs the defenses pass defense rating...

Say Peyton Manning has a 66% completion rate, and he is playing the Bills who give up a 62% completion rate then you would set his midrange completion chance at 01-64 (the average of the two numbers) and then adjust by 20 for longer or shorter passes as they discussed.

Wouldn't be tough if you looked up the numbers, I don't think.

That's how I would do it anyways. thmbsp$

With some one like a Manning it wouldn't be hard, just time consuming, to get his numbers vs. each team. He's played every body multiple times, especially inter division/conference opponents.

Ya I wouldn't bother getting a QB's numbers vs each team. just a season average and then the defenses season average.

Already one ahead of you FOTH ... this is what I posted earlier in the thread:

COMP. INC. INT. TEAM
01-66 67-96 97-00 OHIO STATE
01-66 67-98 99-00 KENTUCKY
01-65 67-98 99-00 OKLAHOMA
01-63 64-97 98-00 FLORIDA STATE
01-63 64-96 97-00 MICHIGAN
01-61 62-97 98-00 FLORIDA
01-59 60-96 97-00 VIRGINIA
01-59 60-96 97-00 TEXAS
01-59 60-97 98-00 NEBRASKA
01-56 57-95 96-00 ILLINOIS
01-56 57-98 99-00 SYRACUSE
01-56 57-95 96-00 PURDUE
01-56 57-96 97-00 CLEMSON
01-55 56-97 98-00 BYU

This is by team passing numbers. I can't do it by individual quarterback, because each team in my league only has 1, and in some cases, like at Purdue (Marve) and BYU (Nelson), the quarterbacks got hurt at some point in the season and never returned, so their stats weren't completed.

As you can see, it's a big difference with Pryor throwing for Ohio State or Hartline throwing for Kentucky, compared to Parker throwing for Clemson or the backups throwing for Purdue and BYU - backups who both figure largely into those percentages.

Ed wnnrcgr shkthbx: $br#

Up to you.
 

These are all great ideas. Once again you can make your charts as simple or as sophisticated as you like. I keep my QBs equal across the board because any QB could have a bad game or a great game any given game. Sometimes running backs with great bases get shut down by a good defense or turned by team mates. I really don't want one team to have an advantage over any other team but that's just me. We are all innovators, designers, and thinkers. Trial and error is a great learing tool. You or I may create something that really does not work well during the game so you simply throw it out. At every level of football whether on the fields outside or the electric gridiron we play on Rules are made to be changed. It's up to you coaches to do what fits right for your league.

With 3 quarters down in my game under the new charts system, the first thing I might do is go from 40 back to 45 minute quarters. I've run 19, 19, and 17 snaps (only counting plays I lined up, not fair-caught punts, PATs, etc.) in the three quarters. Would like to get that number back in the low 20s and adding 5 minutes would do that.

Going to keep it 40 for the last quarter of Syracuse-Clemson, though, just to keep it fair. 'Cuse ahead now, 17-7.

Ed wnnrcgr shkthbx: $br#