Tron has made an observation?
 

Fellas,

The question is TTQB passing vs. Pass placement? My mortal existance as the humble and lovable Sean Carter has about a 45% TTQB passing rating. My tweaking abilities as Tron gives me a 90% pass placement rating. Thus I favor pass placement. I have come to notice that the best TTQB passers don't approve of pass placement. I believe Pass placement keeps those of us with bigger hands in the game. I hated the TTQB as a young boy and I still don't have much love for him now. Which do you prefer and why?
:mad:

It depends.................
 

When playing "O", and I'm hot, .............I'll use the TTQB, .............big advantage for the "O"

As a business man, tournament promoter, league builder, hobby recruiter, .........I like to have Pass Simulation shown/used along with the TTQB, so to show the new guys they can have a passing game too, ;) ..........without having to use the TTQB :eek: ...................AND for the guys that have been in the hobby that STILL do not use the TTQB,:) .........that way:
a) Everyone can play
b) makes the defense play harder

I use the passing sticks from BuzzBall. When my young nephews started plaing they did not like the TTQB. To difficult to pass they said. Then I found the sticks. Now they're hooked. I never like the TTQB anyway. JUST MY OPINION!

I don't see why both aren't used. As long as you don't take 10 minutes to decide which, say you have to know in 10 seconds. There are tournaments exclusively for TTQ, but none for just Pass Simulation (to the best of my knowledge). In tournaments where Pass Simulation is allowed, so is TTQ. I like both, and it takes a good hand or blind luck:) to get those bases to run straight.

exactly chachi, ...............
 

..................which is why at BuzzFest, whichever you 1st touch, either the stick or TTQB, ........that is what you must use.

In high pressure situations, ..................many times a pass is mulled over like a birdie putt in the US Open,.............:D

Excuse Me?!
 

Excuse me? Did you just say...................."When playing "O", and I'm hot, .............???

Nope, not doing it. Too easy. No honor in that. I ain't doing it. BUT YOU ALL CAN!! ROTF!! LOL!!

RAIDERMAN

hard to believe....................but
 

yes, Occasionally I get hot with TTQB!:)

and sometimes I'm colder than the North Pole!:mad: .....okay most of the time...............but I did win the Beltway college league's tournament's Passing competition two years ago, ...........unfortunately I was unable to attend and defend my title this past tournament.:(

What about the QB's "Line of sight"? Should that have anything to do with limiting you to use one or the other? I know, stupid question.
No comments please, Raiderman! LOL
Mike

In My Opinion
 

I think, from a business perspective, it's wonderful having anyone and everyone who has an interest in playing miniature football playing the game. If you can bring them back into the game via TTQB or Sticks, you do what you have to do.

From a tournament standpoint, I think you really thinking in terms of two different methods or skills. I don't think you can or should use both in the game together. I think when I guy beats you with sticks, you know if he was playing using the TTQB, he would not stand a chance! But I also know some guys prefer the stick method because it gives them a chance to compete against others who use the TTQB.

For my preference, I think if you are going to have a tournament and you know the majority of that tournament is centered around guys who use pass simulation, just make the tournament pass simulation PERIOD! If a tournament is where you want to emphasize TTQB, let it be understood that that tourney is TTQB. Or to save time, make the tournament where you do have two different divisions, TTQB and Pass Simulation. That way, guys will decide which method they want to go and you don't exculed anyone. Everybody can still play at that tournament but in different divisions.

As an miniature football coach, I want to play guys who play me using the same skills, not something different from me. And do understand, I am a student of the game, an educator and all that but when it comes to tournament play, I want to know that coach opposite me is competing against me using the same skills as myself. When that is done, you walk away not feeling cheated or asking, "Why am I waisting my time?"

I think guys don't pass with the TTQB because they are scared of the results. They are scared that they will not hit the pass! That happens, and it happens to me a lot (especially in stadiums). But until you elevate your awareness to that level, whenever a television station or newspaper columnist comes around and ask you that age old question, "How do you kick or throw?" and your reply is, "We really don't use that. It does not work". Well, you are cheating yourself out of reaching potential recruits. You are cheating the game out of its value. And you are cheating the original makers of the game because they saw the vision of being able to pass with that QB and kick with that QB.

I know this is a hot button for many but it really should not be. If you dig deep within your own psychological complexes, you may know this to be true. But if you continue to try to say both are equal, I think we shortchange the game. I've got no problem on having two divisions and give guys the choice to play in the division they prefer.

And again Tron ( and you know you my 'Boy!), I probably would not come to a tournament if I could not use my kicker and TTQB to do his thing. You've got no idea what an impression it makes on the masses. Just remember that commercial when you was a little kid that hooked you. The dad was playing football with his son and he threw a pass and slo-moed it and then kicked a field goal. At that point, the game hooked you, me, and millions of others. It still can.

Reginald Rutledge
A Concerned Miniature Football Coach

Flickers & Masterminds
 

Fellas,

I highly recommend both TTQB passing and Pass simulation(Burgess et.al) for leagues and tornaments. I work with my hands, fingers and eyes daily in the lab. My hand and eye coordination is good, but TTQB passing is still a long forgotten dream. In some situations it works for me. However, pass simulation allows me to even the playing field. TTQB passing takes great skill as far as I'm concerned and my skills are not making the curve! I need another passing mechanism that allows me, and the multitudes like me ,to attempt to stay competative. Practice some may say. I've lost more footballs than Tudor ever made in the past two years and I still can't find them. I putting down the sticks. If my boys get open, I can jet to the sticks and I'm gone!:mad:

P.S.
Pass simulation depends on how well you tweaked(Fast & Straight) your receivers, how fast the defense is, what kind of board your playing on and last but not least your ability to judge the distance and the situation. It also requires a certain amount of luck/skill.:mad:

I use my Ravenna Al's Miracle Passing, Fumble, Penalty dice. It's quick, easy and cut and dry. No arguments over whether the ball hit someone or not. And as an added benifit, it rewards the defense if they set up in a pass defense by raising the possibility of interceptions. Pass % changes depending on the length of the pass. :cool:

TTQB for me.
 

The TTQB is like anything else it PRACTICE,PRACTICE,PRACTICE. Are you going to hit 100% NO, Are you going to hit 90% I doubt it. But if you practice enough and achieve 60 to 70% then you are going to be a very lethal opponent. I like the fact that pass placement has kept people into the game.
But the feeling I get when I throw a TD pass with the TTQB that is considered to be the hard way well lets just say it is a great feeling. Now for those of you who are familiar with the NHFL ATTAC passing it is truly the hardest but it has become my favorite form of passing because the feeling one gets when you connect on a TD bomb in this style well it is why I play the game.
This is coming from someone who did not complete 1 pass the entire FIRST SEASON.

Pass placement has a role in our game I think what role it plays is up to the individual Tournament reps.
Geno H

if it works, ............
 

Al,

I think dice, and spinners, and anything else, .......... I guess, cards and charts, ...............are cool, and I know a lot of our customers, mostly solitaire players use them, and if I played a solitaire league, I may be inclined to use them too, ............however, ..........the reason we don't use them in the Harrisburg BuzzBall leagues and BuzzBall tournaments, is guys want their wins credited to skill, not chance, and and when you introduce dice, spinners, cards ect. you have turned the game we love into a board game, like monopoly, chutes and ladders, etc., and I'm not sayng that totally takes away strategy, or any thing like that, but with the amount of chest thumping, and testosterone competitive animals we are in this hobby, guys want recognition for being the best, have having the greatest skill............I think that is the reason you don't see more of othe dice, spinners, and cards.

I think it is two totally different "animals"
 

I definitely see the need for both! Never question that. Somethings you take from your childhood into adulthood regarding games. I think one of those things was that commercial on television. That's how it hooked millions. That's why we can't hook many today!

No problem with pass simulation. But I want to test my ability to kick and pass against those who do likewise and then I can feel good about him whuppin' my 'behind! I can't feel good going 500 miles and I know that the pressures of whether he was able to utilize his own skill of kicking a FG or hitting a pass when everyone is watching was not on display.

I think it would be fabulous to be able to go under a tent and in one venue, you see guys battling it out using pass simulation determining winners and then you run over to another venue and see a guy actually having to throw a pass in the corner of the endzone with time running out.

Each venue makes for great TV. It's just that you would have to decide which type of drama fits your liking.

I think, believe it or not, we are headed in that direction anyhow. I think the people who would run a coalition championship already play under 4-5 distinctive styles. I always look at it as if you don't won't to play under that style, just come watch and help out if you can.

Reg

If I'm making the rules...BOTH
 

I personally like rules that allow BOTH. The reason is it allows all to play and compete, but even more than that it openes up the game to what I see as the benefits of both systems! To me the sticks are the equivalent of lofting a pass out there for the reciever to grab. In contrast the TTQB is a bullet pass. The sticks allow you to go over the top more if the defense plays with wrecklace abandon, but can be very dificult to work underneath patterns. A great TTQB passer is like having Peyton Manning, the benefits of a marksman are obvious.

Here are my personal feelings on the Pros and cons of each passing system...

PASS PLACEMENT- For the pros, I like that with pass placement the DEFENSE GETS TO MAKE A PLAY ON THE BALL. The defender's proximity to the reciever REALLY matters. I like that its about speed more than power on the outside when chasing a live ball. If it were just sticks, I don't like that its either a completion or a pick 90% of the time with a smooth board (maybe we should allow defenders to bump the reciever off line?). For the cons, there is ZERO ASPECT OF QB ACCURACY with sticks. The big reciever is not a factor. Additionally the QB should only be allowed to throw in the direction he is facing (180 degrees passing angle). Lastly, It shouldn't be TOO EASY. I don't think you should be able to orient the reciever in absolutely any direction to free himself from the defenders. In my opinion he should only be able to be turned within the 180 (+/-90) degrees of the direction in which he is facing (similar to the QB passing rule).

TTQB- I like the element of human passing accuracy, the excitement of making the big throw into traffic. I don't like the debate over whether the tiny ball hit the tiny player (why can't he really catch it:) ). The scale of the TTQB gunslinger is certainly difficult and there seems to be such a huge differential in abilities. How do you defend a deadly passer? One common answer is to knock out the recievers at the LOS with power (and holding) by your corners. Again, I prefer speed on the outside players and making plays downfield (maybe its just the absolute mauling of the recievers at the line that I'm really not fond of). I like the potential of multi-stop on pass plays which could have rules to force the defenders to release the recievers. I'd also like to learn more about different target passing methods where you throw with the TTQB to a passing target and then the players run to the spot. My concern with that would be that it is too time consuming.

Great conversational topic for this hobby and I've enjoyed reading the responses so far. We in the MFCA should definately document the many tournament methods for all to learn.
Joe

How does the pass simulation work?
 

in this thread or perhaps a new one, could one of you guys take the time to explain how the pass simulation works? i saw it once at a BuzzFest so i have some familiarity. it is now becoming more interesting and might want to switch over. Thanks.

Making the Game Playable For all
 

Think about this