Miniature Electric Football Forums - Tweak Tool success for Super Prolines

Miniature Electric Football Forums (http://www.miniaturefootball.com/forum/index.php)

- Miniature Electric Football Tailgate Party (http://www.miniaturefootball.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4)

- - Tweak Tool success for Super Prolines (http://www.miniaturefootball.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21109)

Tweak Tool success for Super Prolines

The video says I went to the Miggle Championship. It should say I went to the Miggle Championship Game.

Here is a video I put together that shows both the tool and the result of it's use. Vince used a similar tool to tweak his men as well. To be honest this tool takes away the painstaking squeezing that caused damage to your bones and joint. A little heat at the right time and . . . well see for yourself

Disclaimer: This is for informational purposes as a service to all by the Coordinator. It is intended for those who want to tweak themselves.

ken, great information/video

It seemed for a while people were down on and not supporting the super pralines. Maybe they were not being tweaked right. But as your video proves that vince was right when he praised them before they even were sold.
Once miggle began selling them, no one was talking about them. I asked long ago "How many super prolines are on coaches teams ?" I got several reply's saying none, they are not like original first runs. Joel told me at the convention he was able to get nice strength from them. I guess this video will change the minds of many. They may be believers now.

mantaraydre

...everything but the "how and why"...your such a tease Ken! :rtfl: strrngthpt

Where can we get that tool from?

wow! I would have loved to have seen the underside of both bases in the video, to get a rough idea of how the tweaks themselves looked.

None the less that was impressive! thmbsp$

What a great learning tool. Let's raise the level of play across the board. Those super pro line bases are pretty special when tweaked properly.

Vincent

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michigan Joe (Post 138497)

...everything but the "how and why"...your such a tease Ken! :rtfl: strrngthpt

As you may already know. When I compete I don't tweak strickly for strength. I was just messing around with my new tweakers and Ka-boom! :eek:

I just went back and worked on the first run but right now the SP still is stronger. I was able to close the gap though. The problem with the first run is that when I spend my hard earned money on them you really don't want to alter them at the price you pay. I also found that you can do much more to SP's with the "tool" in getting length and then making adjustments from there. ;)

I'll be trying out others as the process is more extensive than tweaking a first run. First runs are ridiculously easy to tweak and that is where the real value is. SP's have to be set perfectly based upon the type of plastic and their overall 'lack of grip" on certain surfaces. Until I totally figure this out and construct a tweaking "algorithm" to support my findings it's best that I hold my water. I had success with a prior theory due to the use of the newer tools which lesson the need for heat. I have discovered SP's have a much lower heat tolerance even though they appear otherwise. I have a tight end that was a beast but it was a rare success with heat applied. The tool helps reduce the dependence on heat. This also seems to apply to those frosty looking Prolines that are hard that people toss aside.

Hope this isn't more teasing. thmbsp$

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGPIN (Post 138502)

What a great learning tool. Let's raise the level of play across the board. Those super pro line bases are pretty special when tweaked properly.

Vincent

You must admit there is much more work to it. It seems worth it though.
In other words, I won't build a team in a week, maybe a month. But if money is the issue, not time, this is the avenue we need to create to keep those individuals in the hobby.

Just my thoughts.

Just giving you a hard time Ken, we all know you help people with tweaking tips whenever you can. The "watch new base destroy old base" video was a tease though since you didn't include the "how-to" part.

Looking foreward to part 2 of the video!

Thats an amazing tutorial.....

keep us all learning in the hobby Coachthmbsp$ thmbsp$ thmbsp$ :twkr: Keep it coming....Frosty Rookies tweak video nextdrl$$ drl$$ drl$$ ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetka (Post 138507)

You must admit there is much more work to it. It seems worth it though.
In other words, I won't build a team in a week, maybe a month. But if money is the issue, not time, this is the avenue we need to create to keep those individuals in the hobby.

Just my thoughts.

Let's get that tweaking video with that new tool going! thmbsp$ :twkr: wnnrcgr

Reaaly like this video, this will help me a LOT!!!

Benster from north of the border

Hmmmmmmm...Super Pro-Lines.......that sounds familiar...........let me think.....wait...........I remember now.

:twkr:

As i re-read my post, i realized, was :rnt; :rnt; :rnt; :rnt; awaaaaaayyyyyy.

Questions

Why was the base able to perform so well? How were both bases tweaked?
Where they done the same, meaning 3/4 down the back prongs and the full length down the fronts?:confused:
Just wondering how much of it was the tool, and how much of it was the tweaker, and how much of it were the bases used and how much of this is the style of tweak, applied.:confused:

I have recently learned that different pliers work better for different bases, atleast for me.:eek:
I have recently learned that different bases need to be tweaked differently, as the same "science" cannot be applied to all bases as a blanket.mgngcrz

I bring this up cause for me, one who gets kids and every-now-and-then, other adults, involved in the game, TWEAKING the bases is the part that makes or breaks the interest of the interested. TOO many times i have lost the "30 minute time span to impress me" gameshow, because FIRST, i had to tweak the bases to get the men to move right. Now, the interested person has interest in tweaking, but if they are brand new, they dont quite understand the effects, affects and residual gains of a well tweaked base. By the time the figures move in a fashion of interest, or not how they did as kids, the attention span of the interested person is about up. Sure, we play and have fun, but it doesnt lead to too much future interest. Maybe its me, the teacher? - Perhaps.
OR
Maybe we either need bases that come runningly tweaked right out the box, or we need tweaking secrets, tweaking ideas, tweaking knowledge, tweaking philosophies, tweaking tips and all things tweaking informartion - to be disclosed to the masses, if in fact, we are aspiring to our own MFCA mission statement.
Good tweaking is achievable with practice, but in the age where Electric Football is battling advances in game technology, tweaking is also just too darn complicated. Wish there were an easier way.

Whew, that was alot. Dont even know if this post was appropriate for this thread.:rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:

Let's try to make sense of all this Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOOP (Post 138733)

As i re-read my post, i realized, was :rnt; :rnt; :rnt; :rnt; awaaaaaayyyyyy.

Questions

Why was the base able to perform so well?

Response: The short of it is that my theory is SP's break down with heat and the vibration does not flow through the reeds when heat alters their structure.

How were both bases tweaked?

Response: By using the best tweak tools available for the type of base tweaked. The tools are similar but one is designed for lighter cold pressure (first run), and heavier cold pressure (SP's). First run's have the luxury of still working with heat. SP's took a slight cut while first runs seem to lose with each cut.

Where they done the same, meaning 3/4 down the back prongs and the full length down the fronts?:confused:

Response: You should be confused here. There is no set way to tweak a base. Each is different. Tweak to your player not to a designation. Success is when it works perfectly on that man and not on any others of a different shape. Tweaking is an art form not a mechanical function. I personally disagree with any other conventional wisdom and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Just wondering how much of it was the tool, and how much of it was the tweaker, and how much of it were the bases used and how much of this is the style of tweak, applied.:confused:

Response: The tool for the SP's. While tweaking with Vince, who chose the material for the base, I discovered that he was very cautious with heat. Well, who would know better than him? I don't know if he did it instinctively or not. Up to that point I was only successful using "heat and tweak" on one SP. Of course some of it was the tweaker. I am a professional and you can bet that my skill set that helped bring this to light. Regardless to that the importance is not in being a professional but being able to acheive the same level of success without going broke.

I have recently learned that different pliers work better for different bases, atleast for me.:eek:

Response: please see above

I have recently learned that different bases need to be tweaked differently, as the same "science" cannot be applied to all bases as a blanket.mgngcrz

Response: Covered this

I bring this up cause for me, one who gets kids and every-now-and-then, other adults, involved in the game, TWEAKING the bases is the part that makes or breaks the interest of the interested.

Response: True. But if you can't do it in that time frame why are you trying? Not fair to you, the kids, or the point you are trying to make.

TOO many times i have lost the "30 minute time span to impress me" gameshow, because FIRST, i had to tweak the bases to get the men to move right. Now, the interested person has interest in tweaking, but if they are brand new, they dont quite understand the effects, affects and residual gains of a well tweaked base. By the time the figures move in a fashion of interest, or not how they did as kids, the attention span of the interested person is about up. Sure, we play and have fun, but it doesnt lead to too much future interest. Maybe its me, the teacher? - Perhaps.

Response: Presentation is everything. I look at recruiting like playing a championship game. Have you ever watched one of those cooking shows where most of the components are in place including the finished product. Show tweaking in increments with a beginning to finished product. Yes, it is the teacher as you do not have the proper tools in place to teach. Teaching, especially to kids, is done in components one linked to the other to fully grasp a concept. I learned this helping my four boys with their homework then coaching baseball.

OR
Maybe we either need bases that come runningly tweaked right out the box, or we need tweaking secrets, tweaking ideas, tweaking knowledge, tweaking philosophies, tweaking tips and all things tweaking informartion - to be disclosed to the masses, if in fact, we are aspiring to our own MFCA mission statement.

Response: Forget it. Molding is imperfect. Their are many tweaking secrets, ideas and knowledge. Many people become good tweakers by reading tips on this site, and many don't. People acheive success so many different ways it is astounding. Find what works for you then perfect it.

Good tweaking is achievable with practice, but in the age where Electric Football is battling advances in game technology, tweaking is also just too darn complicated. Wish there were an easier way.

Response: I feel your frustration is the main thing prohibiting your growth. There is a hint of impatience present in your dialogue. It appears that you are spending a great deal of time analyzing the concept instead of applying it. Expect failures. It is the key to success. I watched one coach go from a wide eyed punching bag to one of the most prolific tweakers in the country is six months. He did HIS thing, right Norbert. Sure, he learned from Simmie, Shaun, Jimmy, et al but then he did HIS thing. Do YOUR thing thmbsp$

Whew, that was alot. Dont even know if this post was appropriate for this thread.:rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:

Response: And why not?

Hope this helps! thmbsp$ ppls$

THERE IS NO MAGIC
#1.TWEAK TOOL
or
#2. BASE
or
#3. METHOD

TWEAKING IS AN ART JUST AS PAINTING IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL OF the basic knowledge is out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL types of bases will produce talent that you need.

Geno H

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetka (Post 138740)

Response: And why not?

Hope this helps! thmbsp$ ppls$

Thanks for that response Ken, and Geno as well.

To clarify.... My tweaking growth is cool and just might be the next Jamel G (see me next Dec during the BAM playoffs). My frustration in dialogue comes from teaching others and doing it within the time frame of what their interest will hold. As i have experienced, they see the game, become wide eyed and want to know how its played. After a quick tutorial with tweaked men, they are open. But when it comes to having to tweak the bases real quick first, i lose that window of certain interest. Just wish there were an easier way besides having tweaked bases ready to go at the drop of the dime haningin in my pocket at all times. (Actually, thats not that bad of an idea for a loser like me).:rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:

Thanks for the response though and the few tips of clarification shared.

Love the part about (in short) tweaking bases to how it works for you. There is no ONE way to do things. One has to be open to all knowledge and find what fits your way achieving the success.

Thank you Mr. Coordinator

Great questions and points Hoop. Awsome responses Sweetka and Geno. I've been following this thread and up until now felt like there were things being left 'unsaid.' Now we have some helpful dialog going.

I agree with all points. As a relatively new member, MF'er, and tweaker I agree that it would be wonderful to be able to purchase new bases, tweaked and ready to play. I guess you can if you're willing to pay.

All the information needed to learn to tweak is here, but, unless your well versed in the terminology it can be very overwhelming. I couldn't tell a first run from an Excalibur a few months ago and I still can't tell you if the bases I'm using are first run, fourth run, SP, or something else; let alone if they should or should not get heat when being tweaked. I'm getting better but I've invested a ton of time, and what for me is a lot of money in order to 'learn' this hobby.

I'd guess I'm the exception. I'd guess, not many people are willing to do what most of us (MFCA members) do. If we want the hobby to grow we have to find a way to endeer the game itself to people who are interested but cannot or do not want to invest large amounts of time and money. People who just want to pull out their board now and then and play a game with the kids need a place amoung us. That is the key to growing the hobby as I see it.

Now I know I'm way off the topic of this thread so I'll let it go at that and see where it goes.

One other thought though. If I do by some quality, professionally tweaked bases, how long will that tweak last and what do I need to do in order to maintain/restore it over time?

Just didn't know . . . .

It was being received that way. I just did something I had limited success with in the past and wanted to share. DRK I shall work on simplifying in the future. My understanding is that Geno is doing an article on Prolines in the "Tweak Magazine". I strongly suggest you get that info.

Sweetka,

No malice intended at all. Just throwing out thoughts. There is tons and tons of great information on this sight regarding tweaking, or any other aspect of the hobby one would want to learn about. I've spent many hours reading up on, and then applying what I've learned to, tweaking, painting, stratagy......

I guess as a newer member, football coach, and teacher, I see a link between Hoop's comments about teaching the game, growing the hobby, and making tweaking, or even advanced tweaking, more understandable to those who want to learn it for themselves and available to those who don't want to do it themselves but want to play the game with quality results.

A post like this where there is back and forth between guys who have a wealth of knowledge can go over the head of a newby like me. I have found again and again that when that occures members are more than willing to bring things down to the beggining, basic level.

Appoligeese if I cam across negatively, as though I was put out. That is not the case at all. Like said, just tossing out some thoughts and ideas.

all kinds play here

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drk (Post 138755)

Well, you are correct, if you don't want to or don't hav ethe know-how - you will pay for tweaking services. And even there, you still have a variity of selections.

I agree with Geno and Ken, Tweaking is an art form and another section of the hobby/sport that those that have it are now just beginnig to share it when they was cashing in not long ago. With that being said, tweakers will still be in the line to purchase others wears just gage themselves...or cannot get the right tweak on a base and will seek help.

Learning the skills set will require time and bases. You would be better served by cutting your tweaking teeth on some of the standard miggle bases before moving to the more costly bases while you develope you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach K-LO (Post 138801)

You would be better served by cutting your tweaking teeth on some of the standard miggle bases before moving to the more costly bases while you develope you.

Agreed. Start with some basic cheap bases and see what you can get. Also, when I started, I purchased a strength base and a speed base from some of the more well known tweakers so that I could look at the prongs (Ken's started calling them "reeds") and see what they did and I used these as my "test against" comparable bases to see how I was doing.

I often could get good results on a brand new tweak, but the real test is if you get those same or close to same results a week, a month or a year from the time you tweaked it. That is when you know you have gotten it!

thmbsp$

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drk (Post 138784)

A little history:

There has been this raging debate on the value of SP's. There are some who have the Nike Jordons (First Runs) on their team. They are so rare that really on two guys have them in large supply. Start at ten bucks per base. Straight front are 15-20 from the people I know. Luckily for me I came across enough second runs, my favorite, for it to not affect me going forward! wnnrcgr wnnrcgr

Vince Peatros, who has recently been reinstated, had a fear of flying but he chose the plastic to be used for it's creation. About 10 bucks for 12 bases. He recently came to Miggle with a unusual tweak tool that worked perfectly for SP's. Coach Karim recently found a good duplicate that works perfectly when used in a style similar to what Vince does. Yes, it is a bit complicated but would you walk up and beat Dick Weber at bowling with a day of practice?

The short of it is that competition coaches relish the idea of not spending 100-150 bucks for bases then screwing one up tweaking. So it is important to get this info out about the tool used. It works for that base. That's the biggest hurdle. I didn't know that it would start a firestorm about tweaking.

I am a professional tweaker. It's like building a swiss watch. You have to practice but don't overtweak. Once satisfied leave the thing alone. Make adjustements with your finger then make them permanent. That's the first thing. Use your fingers then make it permanent with gentle heat.

Flashing: You should not see a difference. If you do you did it too long. Bubbles = boo boo's.