|
please explain illegal formations in the NFL AND MINIATURE FOOTBALL
COACHES
1) WHAT EXACTLY IS A ILLEGAL FOWARD PASS ? 2) Do both wr's have to be on the line of scrimmage before the snap ? Some say yes some say no ! I just watched a game and did not see any two wide outs on the line / What are the scnerio's ? I know two TE'S is one, what are the other scenario's ? 3) If a qb is in the shotgun with a receiver angled to run in front of the qb to get to the other side, can the qb throw/toss/pitch the ball to the wide out let say as he gets behind the tackle, then turn the board back on as the wr continues to the other side. I guess thats some sort of quick out or dump off. 4) Speaking of dump off passes, how can we do it in miniaturefootball without getting a penalty. 5) at what piont can the rb catch a ball out of the backfield ? 7) WHAT IS A LEGAL RUN OR PASS IN BETWEEN THE TACKLES. Im asking because im designing plays and would like to how far can i go ! Also, iv'e been to several tourney's and watched coaches call plays with the opposing coach saying you cant do that that's illegal . It would be of great benefit to all if you experts can break down to the efl community, what all of our options are in getting a detailed playbook together. I think every coach should have some form of a playbook under arm at each game trying to run there sets ppppppplllllleeeeeeeeaaaasssssseeeeeee help ! MANTARAY- DRE |
Illegal Formation
In football there is rules, yes ryles that govern the positions on the field to maintain balance.
When you talk about illegal formation, ( 5 men in the back field, not having 7 men on the line of scrimmage ) Lets look at it this way, WR LT LG C RG RT WR TE QB FB RB THIS IS A LEGAL FORMATION If you line up the WR in the back field then this formation becomes illegal as you no longer have 7 men on the line. Now check this out take this same formation, the TE is moved up on the line, and the WR to his left stays on the line then the TE is not eligible because he is not at the end of the line. Now when you angle palyers this is false start, you are simulating the start of the play. Players are pointed North ( Opponents goal ) or 1 player to the side line ( Man in motion ) any thing else is a penalty. This is real football 101 To simulate actual football with miniatures you must first understand the game of football in all area's . Violating football basics will never lead you to playing a true realisitc football with miniatures. Bump To understand this you must understand the DB position, again, what is the responsibility of the DB. 1 To defend the pass, meaning runs with the WR, 2 to cover an area of the field collectively in order to achieve pass coverage. The Bump is design to redirect the WR or Reroute him to maintain the pass defense discipline. Holding the WR at the line voids the use of the safties, and is also a penalty ( Defensive Holding) The answer to all you question are in the MPFL DVD it teaches the basics of football that can be used in actual football to help children understan there position better in little league football and help them to understand the big picture in what role they play on the field. QB If the player is in front of the QB then it is a pass, beside ( 1.5 bases ) or behind is a pitch or hand off . Keep it simple, no free be's on any type of passes. Now on illegal forward pass, if the QB is over the line of scrimmage and throws a pass it is a illegal pass, he must be behind the line of scrimmage. Were some might be having trouble is that you can't take some rules and use them and throw out the others because you don't like them. Each rule surpports another that is football, passing rules surpport other passing rules and the same for all others. If the WR can't run his pass route then how can there be pass interference ? How can the defender make a play on the ball ? If the defenders hand, or helmet never touches the ball then how can there be a fumble ? If 4 defenders are able to make a play why linit on 2 to make the play ? ot if there are 3 "O" linemen in open space why would the not look for a defender to block ? If you limit the actul use of football essentials then how can you play football ? You can no longer call it football if your cutting out the essential eliments of the game. If you understand this, then the MPFL DVD is what you want. Get you're DVD NOW :D |
Dre,
please explain the plays which were contested, I assumed as long as you had a legitimate formation: 7 on the line, receivers as ends, RB in the tackle box (Pro Rules) you were good to go. I know some leagues do not allow the qb to block on a running play, that makes sense. I'm not clear on what you are saying. What if your slot-man is on a TTC, you set him to spin, you run the board 1 sec, hit him with the TTQ, he's behind the line so you can adjust, take him off spin, your wide-out on that end is set to block, you have an alley, pick up yards, move the chain. Is this all good? I dig you, I dream of plays, I'm not kidding, I run plays in my sleep, I would like a 'play-book', the bread-n-butter plays, etc. Good post! |
1) WHAT EXACTLY IS A ILLEGAL FORWARD PASS? An illegal forward pass is one that hits an OL or one that is attempted after the QB has crossed the LOS.
2) Do both WRs have to be on the line of scrimmage before the snap? Some say yes, some say no! I just watched a game and did not see any two wide outs on the line. What are the scenarios? I know two TEs is one, what are the other scenarios? Seven men must be on the LOS at all times on Offense. This includes the 5 OL and then 2 more guys, usually WRs or TEs or other players that have checked in with the Ref as an eligible Receiver i.e. Mike Vrabel (#50 for New England) or The Fridge (#72 for Da '85 BEARS!) Then comes a slotted WR, which can lineup inside or outside of the 7th guy on the LOS. This "slot" is usually the guy that goes in motion. 3) If a QB is in the shotgun with a receiver angled to run in front of the QB to get to the other side, can the QB throw/toss/pitch the ball to the wide out, let's say as he gets behind the tackle, then turn the board back on as the WR continues to the other side? I guess that's some sort of quick out or dump off. I would say "yes" as long as he is the only guy in motion, meaning everyone else is facing forward. In the MWEFL, we are now playing a lil with MS, so a quick on would put that WR behind the one of the OTs; I'd turn all unengaged Offensive players to "trick" the D into going deep with the WRs and to cover both RBs flaring into each flat and also to setup my OL's blocking downfield; then I'd auto-pitch to the motion guy if he's w/i 2 base-lengths of the QB and turn him upfield since he's behind the LOS. Defense can angle/adjust ALL of their unengaged players and we let 'er rip! 4) Speaking of dump-off passes, how can we do it in Miniature Football without getting a penalty? See above. Slight variances for different leagues, but shouldn't be too far off what I outlined above except for the MS. 5) At what point can the RB catch a ball out of the backfield? Again this depends on the individual league, but as long as the RB isn't facing his own endzone, he should be eligible. 7) WHAT IS A LEGAL RUN OR PASS IN BETWEEN THE TACKLES? Please elaborate. This question could be answered a million different ways. The WR Screen above is a legal Pass. Any hand-off is a legal Run. I'm asking because I'm designing plays and would like to know how far I can go! Dre, if you have Madden on any platform of video game, use those playbooks. If you don't, go to: http://nflhs.com/tipsdrills/Interact...ks/default.asp Also, I've been to several tourneys and watched coaches call plays with the opposing coach saying, "You can't do that - that's illegal!" It would be of great benefit to all if you experts can break down to the MF community, what all of our options are in getting a detailed playbook together. I think every coach should have some form of a playbook under arm at each game trying to run their sets. See the above link for Interactive Playbooks or check out Madden's Playbooks! Or watch/record your team on TV and run their playbook, noting which plays are used in different downs and distances. |
Love It
Man I love talking football :D :D :D :D :D
Hey TV'sChaChi When you place a player on a magnet, it has the same effect as turnning the TTC base to run around in a circle. It all so ands the eliment of holding to the game. The player going around in a circle is what the public remembers about the game and is why the game is not respected now. But I'm like you in that I run plays every day. I learn how to defend them, I learn how to camouflage them etc. |
Jimbo
Jimbo, I think it is illegal touching of a forward pass if it hit a linman. ? I'm not suer but I think that is what it is.
Also if there are 2 forward passes on the same play. Throwing forward to a player behind the line and that player throwing a pass. |
Roger that!
Yep! Ur right! Same difference, tho. Illegal all the same!
|
?
It would be of great benefit to all if you experts can break down to the MF community, what all of our options are in getting a detailed playbook together. I think every coach should have some form of a playbook under arm at each game trying to run their sets. See the above link for Interactive Playbooks or check out Madden's Playbooks! Or watch/record your team on TV and run their playbook, noting which plays are used in different downs and distances
Jimbo Jimbo I think that this is a good idea, but there must first be a direction on how you want to play this game. You can't pick and choose what eliments you want to use. Your either playing the old school way were the eliments of actual football don't apply, or your going to play it as a actual football simulation game were all the essential eliment of the game apply. I have been asking this questions for years, and no one wants to answer it. This leads back to the fail safe responce of, ( there is no right or wrong way of playing ) If this hobby is to advance to the next level and gain the respect every one want's it to have we must draw the line and start to answer this question. |
Illegal Forward Pass
Guys,
An Illegal Forward Pass is also throwing 2 forward passes; one behind the LOS and another one beyond the LOS. Smitty |
Nice
I went to the link and love it. You see that the player have an assignment on the play as to who they are to block.
They understand what there job is and then they have to go get it done. They recat to what takes place . These plays can and are often run in my system just as you see it hear. You must understand who blocks who on each play, see what the players see's and react to it. Thanks Jimbo |
in a formation, you must have both of your tackles (end linemen) "covered". this means having a receiver or tight end on the line. no more, and no less than 7 men may be on the line. every other player must be at least 1 yard behind the line of scrimmage (in nfl rules). you may have multiple wr's on one side of the line (trips formation), but only one is allowed on the line of sscrimmage.
confused yet?:D |
One Example
COACHES,
Can i put a TE on both sides of the line and not put any wr's on the line ? !) swing pass to the running back, if the ball is on the 25 yard line and the qb drops back to pass, at what point can i hit the running coming out iof the backfield ? Does he have to cross the 25 yard line or can i hit him before he gets there ? 2) Quick out pass to a slot receceiver, at what point (exact yardline) can i throw a quick out thats legal ? 1) dropping back to pass 2) in the shotgun ? 3) qb in the shotgun position, the runningbacks are lets say a yard ahead of him or right next to him, at what point can i throw it to the running backs coming out of the backfield ? 4) can two tight ends line up right next to each other ? THANX MANTARAY- DRE Also, Have you seen when a qb drops back then swings it out to the running, isn't the running behind the line of scrimmage ? This is where im getting coonfused. I use to see Montana hit Rathman all the time coming out of the backfield. Im just trying to figure out how to run that in miniaturefootball. Is it impossible to run a running back to receiver reverse behind the line of scrim ? ala santana moss ! |
absolutely, i forget what that formation is called.
1)check with your league 2)checkwith your league 3)check with your league 4)as long as they are not both on the line of scrimmage at the same time, i don't see why not. in big people ball (as opposed to miniature ball), there is only 1 forward pass allowed per play, and no forward passes are allowed beyond the line of scrimmage. other than that, the ball cn be thrown just about anywhere, just not to a lineman. as far as recreating that, in our league you are allowed to adjust the receiver after the pass is completed, so one could run a back towards the sideline to help set up this sort of a play. |
Good post! Jimbo excellent website. I can spend all day on that site.
|
Its Good To Talk X's And O's With The Greats ( You Can Angle In The Dfw)
COACHES,
Its great talking football with the greats, in the DFW League they let you angle your players (wr's, rb's, lineman). So when trying to get a playbook together for this league or any other league you must figure out what's right IN YOUR ESTIMATION What's a sufficient playbook in electric football ? 1) how many offensive plays ? 2) how many defensive plays ? DO YOU GUY'S HAVE PLAYS JUST FOR THE RED ZONE ? Say you have a super strong defensive lineman, can you put him in as running back or as a extra blocker in the backfield for GOALINE PURPOSES ? O. K. So i can throw the ball to whoever i want (receiver or back) behind the line of srimmage as long as the qb is not beyond the LOS ? THANX MANTARAY- DRE please, everyone chime in with the wisdom of football ! I hope this post helps many other coaches and not just myself. If you already know your stuff just read this a refresher course !!!!!!!! DO YOU GUY'S RUN STUNTS ON DEFENSE (BLITZ PACKAGES, ETC ETC). Ant, please elaborate on the bump and run, it seems receivers are open all day in tourneys (mine included). I see the DB'S will have to cover a area. EACH LEAGUE IS SO DIFFERENT I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR GUY'S FROM VARIOUS LEAGUES TAKE ON HOW THE GO ABOUT THERE GAMEPLANS !!!!! HOW IMPORTANT ARE THE SAFETIES IN YOUR DEFENSIVE ARSENOL |
I often run 5 lineman capped by two TEs, a WR in the slot, and three in the backfield (QB, RB, RB). The TEs make it a little harder for loopers, they create creases for RBs and they get open. Stick to one formation and mix up your play calls, it'll keep your offense poker-faced:)
|
Quote:
Make sure you get your "Tweak" in the next 2 issues, I will unveil at least 3 offensive plays (yes that is right) with full diagrams and specail notes for adding to your playbook. These plays are "money plays" that work on any field, any style (FOB or AT) and have worked on many a coach over the years.............. K-LO |
Heck YEAH!!!
|
Depends ?
All are very good question, but I believe that checking with your league is not really a viable answer as many leagues don't clearly address this. No desrespect to any league.
Yes you can put a TE on both sides, you can have 3 TE, one on one sideand two on the other with the one TE lined up in the back field. 1)A swing Pass: Throwing to a receiver when he is open should be the limit. Setting a limit on whem you can pass to a receiver is like playing football with a blindfold on. 2)Quick Pass: The slant ! Again this should be done when the WR is open and this type of play is based on timing. 3)QB Shotgun:This is design to get the QB away from the pass rush and give him more time to make his reads. His reads tell him were to go with the ball. 4)Yes answer in in #1 In order to perform these types of play you can't limit the games ability. If the defense puts pressure on the QB that will force him to, 1 buy time by moving, 2 go to another WR, 3 throw the ball away, 4 take the sack. But when you give one chance to do any of the above then the you place a restriction on the proper function of football. Reaction: Being able to react opens up the door to perform all these eliments. Think of it like this. You have a car, but you put the club on the steering wheel and drive someplace, your going to limit the performace of the car. But with out the club on the steering wheel you're unlocking all the abilities of the car. A good friend told me that. When you place a limit on the ability of playing football then you hender the ability to run actual football plays. 1) Snap od the ball this sets you're offensive blocking, and the defense countering, while the QB strats his reads. 2) QB eithers hands the ball off, passes, or sets in the pocket to allow his receiver to get open. Defense counters 3) Sure up the protection, pass to the open receiver, roll out to guy time if needed, delayed hand off (draw). Defense counters 4) Every thing is breaking down at this point, advantages is leaning to the defense QB must, throw, or run. Last chacne. Defense counters. Without this you will never achieve the full potential of playing real football with minatures. This is the chess match that makes the game play like it does move and counter move. Quote:
|
Sure
It's not as it appears. With the correct use of the Pass Placement, SS, LB's Do what they are intended to do in pass defense. they have the chance to make a play on the ball. Position of the defeders take away types of pass routes. It also gives the pass rush time to get to the QB.
It totally eliminates luck, and puts it on the skill of coaching. A good DB is able to runn with the WR, not mug him at the line. This opens the door of opportinity for Pass intetference on both the WR and DB, gives the DB a chance to get an INT. And many more. Just because a WR is running down field doesn't mean he is open. It might be a 5 yard Pass Placement stick for the WR, but the DB may have to run 8 yards or the SS may have to run 7 yards. All have a right to the ball and can make a play on the ball once the board is turned on, at that point it's up to the players not the coach. The coach has done his job by placing the players in the right position to make plays. When you bump, the side that the DB's helmet is on is the side he must stay on when he runs with the WR, if on the inside then the WR has the out route open, if on the out side then the WR has the slant. If the LB stays home then he takes away the slant by the WR, and with the SS up top the WR is not open for a 3 yard Pass Placement stick, but might be open for a bullet pass (TTQB) Football players are smart and this should be reflected in how you play. They are not dumb. They don't just do one thing, they do many things on a given play. Opportunity to make plays is the name of the game, lets not limit the opportunity. Quote:
|
check this site out
|
Mantaray Dre, You Surely Should Check with...
the DFW rulebook or coaches in the DFW League if this is a league specific question.
One of the things you will find in our rulebook is not only does it contains more than 100 pages (which I think is very important) but the information is very logical and created by me. I've played football, coached, and officiated on different levels and I have the mind of an engineer so what I write is pretty consistent with the logic of football. It is a disrespect to our league when guys say "No disrepect to that league about knowing the rules" but don't get it twisted, I certainly take great pride in knowing and writing rule books. Unfortunately these are still plastic men who have to be placed on the line of scrimmage but the 7 on the line is an elementary concept that we can definitely go over when you come to Texas. I just get tired of guys in a back-handed manner slamming what others perceive football to be. It just makes me sick sometimes! Reg |
Mantaray Dre
I want to thank you for asking a football related question. While many get cought up in tweaking, TTQB passing, figures. All of that is nice, but Football is the name of the game.
Look at the NFL PlayBook; this is what it's all about. Look at how the play works; lookt at the reactions and movement of the players. I love to see the X's and O's of the game come to life as the athletes use there football intelligents along with there abilities to do there part in making the play. There is some luck in the game, but it makes up about 10% of the actual game. You don't see players running around without a clue of what they should be doing. One coach told me about the 3 R's; Read; Recognize; and React. He said you must be able to do all three to play the game. Read: See how the players move, pick up on players clues, and formations as to what the play is, did the "O" lineman stand up or fire out? Is the WR running hard or not, Is the Back looking at the hole he is going to. One on one chess match. Recognize: Were is the play going, is it a run or pass, left middle right, long or short alert your teammates. React: Get to the ball. Fight off blocks, sift through trash, take the right pursuite angles. This is what I love about the game, you need more than just passing skills, speed and power, you have to think and coach. Reg is right, these are just little plastic men, but so are chess figures. It's all in how you use them and the role you place on them. If you value them as plastic men then that's all they will be. I value them as a reflection of the athlete. |
I Was Asking A General Question !!!!!!!!!!
HEY REG
I basically was asking a general question so coaches can finaly talk x's and o's. I seems very rare that we sit down and speak on the chalkboard. I was trying to get coaches involved in a strategy session post. We talk about everything else and i wanted to shift gears and speak on coaching strategy. From what i read you guy's certainly know your football. I love this post because i see you guy's dont view this as a childrens game like myself. Every sunday when i watch the NFL i say to myself, we have all of this ! we are so lucky we found this hobby. I hope all you coaches realize that. You ever hear just appreciate what you have and dont worry about what you dont have. Look at the joy these plastic men, fields, stadiums, tournaments, conventions brings us. How often do you look at something EFL RELATED ? It's great to hear coaches making playbooks, studying x's and o's and just looking to be serious about this hobby. Just remember, where would we be if you makers of styles, dvd's, stadiums, custom figures, etc etc did not exist. Im very thankfull for all of you guy's and enjoy picking your brains on how things work. I already know how they work, just want to gain more insight from coaches who know more than i do ! HEY REG, YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT "ADRIAN PETERSON ON THE VIKINGS", HE IS UNSTOPABLE MANTARAY- DRE |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:42 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.