is the Custom figure movement killing traditional EF/MF
 

On the old Miggle board back in the you cant show this and you cant say this years, I and a few others would verbally joust with other EF/MFlers about how they felt custom figures needed to be placed in a special catagory,obviously those of us that dug custom figures disagreed. I dont have to say any names but these hobbyists felt that bigger, or figs specialized to perform certain functions would change the game or snuff out the more traditional aspects of EF/MF. Don Smith, Reg,Jimbo, Anthony Burgess and myself were even personally kicked in the gut by other guys that felt we were wrong in how we felt about the hobby,To us we just wanted to do our thing and share with the community. In my humble opinion I knew the hobby was to big to stay in such a narrow spectrum of thought. I knew guys were doing it at home but would never show there figs perhaps it was fear of being called out, or those who they were connected to in the hobby didnt dig custom figures so many stayed quiet. Looking
back on it it was really opinion vs opinion, but now i see work all over from new guys,vets, even some of these custom figs are killing EF/MFlers have now crossed over, my question to you guys is the Custom Figure movement destroying traditional EF/MF figure usage?

It kills it only if you let it
 

I remember a time when I made an announcement on Miggle board that I was giving away my entire collection of Fab 5 teams. I really did not get much of nothing for them. But the funny thing was is I had so much criticism for what I did. Critiques from every camp lashed out at me for breaking with tradition.

Again, it never bothered me because I envisioned a game where anyone should be able to use whatever players he wanted. If I felt I could win with a certain type of athlete and he was available, then I should do so.

In the DFW League, we openly allow ALL manufacturers figures. Several of our best coaches still use traditional Fab 5 players. As a matter of fact, only Barry Stephenson, Michael Robertson, and myself use FF.COM figures (custom and stock) exclusively (among the top tier coaches). Most other coaches have a mixture of everybody's stuff.

So from our perspective, here in DFW land, the traditonal Fab 5 is alive and well. I think it's a beautiful thing when you can use what you want and seeing the creativity of guys now able to dream and openly show their creativity is a good thing. It took a few people to "push the envelope" and "take the bullets" but everybody got the opportunity to benefit from those critical moments in time.

Reg

The Beauty Of Customizing
 

rfr$ Although I am rather new to the concept of customizing, I have always believed that customizing would enhance the hobby. Similar to a lot of practices, they can become routine; sometimes boring. Customizing brings newness to the hobby. It also opens the door for more discussion concerning the hobby.

Since I have started customizing, I can’t see a team without some customized figures on it. Customizing has enhanced my hobby experience.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

To me...it's Evolution
 

It's just natural that the game, like life, evolves.

Customizing figures is a part of that evolution process within the game and it enhances the experience for many people.

You can always set rules or standards that limit the size/weight/position relative to the base (etc) of figures...to keep things fair/equal...but as long as a custom figure looks like a football player...(not and extra limbed alien - although that could be an interesting team :rolleyes:)...then there really should be no debate...:)

Imagine a chess game where you created all your own players. As long as the rules about how your chess players could move matched those of your opponent (becasue in chess, that's all that really matters), then it should make no difference.

It's a little more complicated within MF/EF...but if people take the time to establish standards and rules that work for everybody (we know people have already done this!) then we should be able to satisfy just about everyone.

In some ways, this issue/problem speaks to the larger issues we have as humans. We like to have a certain comfort and balance in our lives...this extends to MF/EF. We get used to things a certain way...or are fearful that the "WAY" we do something will become obsolete...that the balance we try to set will become unbalanced.

I look at it this way...no matter what you do...the world is just going to keep on spinning. No matter how you look at it, you are along for a ride on this planet. You might as well enjoy it and help others enjoy it with you. Find your balance, but realize, on a spinning planet, you will have to find it again and again throughout your life. And that's part of what makes life worth living. You have to try to learn how to embrace change...it's coming whether you like it or not. Work with others to make changes for the better of all.

On a less philosophical note...it seems like now there are so many ways to approach MF/EF, that anybody should be able to find a way to participate. If playing the "game" is your thing...then as long as the rules are the same for both sides...it really shouldn't matter if you have a team of custom players or a team of stock players. Find what you like and go with it...accept the challenge and get on with the game!

Of course, this is all just one crazy man's opinion...mgngcrz

Sorry to jump on this thread but every chance I get I have to plug the MFCA Customizing Contest #2. Only one entry has been recieved so far. Check this post for rules. http://www.miniaturefootball.com/for...ead.php?t=3983

March 30 is the cutoff date for submissions. There are prizes! Money, custom field cover, DVD, bases and possibly more.

I hope that there is still interest in the contest.

my first reaction was a big "YES"
 

Yes, i think customizing is destroying the traditional figs. But i dont mean this to say that custom figs are the dark side and the fab 5's are a bunch of Luke Skywalkers. thmbsp$ i think it still falls under the umbrella of "To Each His Own", or "whichever you prefer".thmbsp$
i too, cannot see a team without a custom figure or two on it. and though it has enhanced my experience (all i do is customize now), i have 145 fab five teams just sitting there, waiting for solitaire play or for my son to be old enough. but here is how i answer the question - when my son is old enough to play(in another 4-6yrs), will he want to play with the those traditional teams, or will we take these customs to YET, ANOTHER LEVEL, or two, or three, and he will want those figs instead?
or simply put -
my haiti cowboys are ATARI
my custom figs are INTELLEVISION
Shawns Swivel figs are NINTENDO
D. Jennings figs are GENESIS

its just a matter of time before the playstations come out.
and with that said, WHO STILL PLAYS ATARI?

YES, customs are destroying the traditionals. not yet, but in time.

Is the Custom figure movement killing traditional EF/MF?
 

Lock,

The answer to your question is NO. That’s like asking… Are the Buzzball, FF.com, Electric Gridiron, Miggle Proline, and Excalibur figures killing traditional EF/MF? These stock poses along with custom figures appeal to the masses because they are different. I remember when ITZ and Larry Walker figures were the rage in the hobby. The reason they were hot is because they were different from the existing Tudor/Miggle men of that era. Their stuff opened the door for everything else that came down the pipe.

Custom figures bring a WOW factor to this hobby. They might not be on par with Reginald’s stadiums, however more coaches have a better chance of making a custom figure than making a stadium. Through their works, custom figure makers share their visions of the hobby with all of us. They spark our imaginations and captivate us with their beautiful artistry. They inspire us to (either) get what they have, or to make our own. No matter how you slice it… it’s all good.

There’s nothing wrong with traditional EF/MF, its alive and kicking and still being supported by a good number of coaches. The reality is (thanks to evolution)… it’s no longer the only game in town.

Peace,

OldSchool

P.S. I'm a little disappointed that SteelersFan1967 removed his post from this thread. I thought the comments in his response were really on point.

I Just Wrote SteelersFan1967...
 

to that same effect.

I thought the comments were thought provoking.

What Did He Write
 

I am Curious as to what Steelers Fan stated concerning this post. Steelers Fan if you are reading this, please repost your comment.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

I think there is a place for both traditional EF and the new game of MINIATURE FOOTBALL!

I LOVE custom poses, decals, facemasks, neck braces, big boards, wood boards, metal boards, field covers, leaugues, national tournaments, tweaked bases, frankenstein bases, laser first down markers, custom field accessories, sideline coaches, and this chatboard/community. I would categorize these as more MINIATURE FOOTBALL, because electric football has been defined by over the years by Tudor/Miggle (not that there is anything wrong with that, we are all greatful for that). But....MINIATURE football is defined by the people who enjoy the hobby and raise the height of the experience within the hobby for the plain love the game and the commraderie of the community.

Joe

Lock,
I like the option of using whatever figure I want. Custom figures aren't killing the old school stuff IMO. Old school stuff has a certain scheme in my everyday gameplan, but they are solely for a specific position or certain scheme. The custom figure brings a whole new level of game play to the hobby. There is no more dominating players IMO than the FF offensive lineman(customized of course), and defensive lineman(customized of course), they are superior atheletes, and can dominate the line of scrimmage. I choose to have most of my squad with FF atheletes, but I do have some old school guys as well. The old school stuff is not dead, it's juts knowing when and where to use them is the key, and just in case you ever have a doubt, the custom figure used properly at the right postions are a dominating athelete, they are like no other. I use both and will continue to use both, though 75 to 80% of my team are customized.

custom figs are crucial when it comes to new recruits or trying to get someone to return to the hobby that has'nt played since the days of fab 5 only, it makes the evolution of the hobby instantly obvious, they're usually like wow, its like this now?!

Just an FYI: Chris Robinson from Virginia invented Swivels which were on display almost 2 years ago at the 1st SWB. We gotta give credit where credit is OVERDUE!

SteelerFan 1967...
 

Thanks for letting me put your post back up.

Peace,

Oldschool

.
 

I have all 32 teams in home and away unis from Tudor/Miggle that I use for solitaire, and that won't ever change. However, we are trying to get a league up around here, which I will use Tudor, Miggle, Proline, Reg's, Buzzball, most fo which I customize.

My Thoughts
 

No
 

I dont think its killing the fab 5 by any means .Every figure used in this hobby
serves a purpose.I still have a mixture of fab 5 and customs i dont think i'll ever have a whole custom team.The reason i love creating customs is to keep the hobby fresh and new to people.If you want to appeal to the mases
of youth you got keep fresh and hot simple as that.Just like a video upgrades
thier graphics,you have to upgrade you figures.Its good to see people push thier talents to the limits.I never thought of customizing till i seen chris r work
that inspired me.Its was hot fresh and new, me being a young cat at the time
thats what i needed to see.

Yes Shawn
 

but like you said, video games improve their graphics each year.
do you still play Madden 97? why not?

we improve the "graphics" of our men every year,
eventually, we will not be playing with the fab 5 guys. atleast, not as a full team.

but everyone is right, customs is what is going to attract new people and keep the veterans staying involved.

but i still think this will no doubt, one day, make a team of fab 5's obselete.

Custom figures
 

I don't usually respond to a post deep like this but I had to ... I have 2 teams that I use ... I have my Cleveland Browns that I use in the MPFL and they are 90% custom or FF pose and I use them because they fit my type of game I play ... My Rams I use in unweighted leagues are just a little different from my Browns ... on my Rams I use Fab 5, Buzzball, Custom figures by Mr. Robinson, Mr. Smith & Mr. Wright and recently added a custom figure (swivel RB) from Shawn and Mr. Jennings (RB1) and trying to add more figures to both teams from other great customizers out there. In short I love using them both Custom and Fab 5 and will continue to do so.

my 2 cents..
 

Whenever can improve this beautiful hobby, customized or not is always welcome. All we want is REALISM


That's it


Benster cnd:$

If something has been deemed tradition or traditional to me it's saying two things. One it's old and two there is something better out there!

Hey, stop talking about Ravenna Al that way..this is about custom figures....:D

they are Great!
 

Custom figures add a "flava" to the game, however, ................for competition I'm for "standard" so everyone plays with the same stuff, ............plus at BuzzFest we also offer a custom division too........

I remember when We unveiled the BuzzBall Figures for the first time, ................within the first five minutes, some guys ( Pat Morris) were taking off their arms and repositioning them..............thmbsp$

As far as tradition goes, ......................tradition tells me it has been around for quite a while and it has a proven track record of working.

George,

I got your e-mail and I did the Pay-Pal thing. Thanks.

If it was not for Custom figures, we might not have Buzzball figures or FF.com Figures, I think? mtmstnks

Custom figs...
 

I agree with Rip... however I'm going to add a little detail to the story. The "some guys" I hope Rip was refering to was Jayboy Combs and Don Smith. It was Jayboy who was repositioning the limbs of the Buzzball figures....within the first five minutes, after the unveiling. He was the one who actually showed me and Patrick. Moreover, when we got home... between Mon-Fri.... Jayboy had created a full 36 man Cowboys squad of custom buzzball figures that he painted, and decaled. Rip thanks for the trip down memory lane. thmbsp$ thmbsp$ thmbsp$

Peace,

Oldschool

P.S. Jayboy also taught Chris Robinson how to make custom figures. Chris on the other hand took custom figures to the next level. ppls$ ppls$ thmbsp$

More memories are coming back...
 

Now that I think about it... I never saw a custom football figures.com figure (live or photo) before Jayboy showed them to me. And... I had never seen a Custom Electric gridiron figure (live or photo) before I saw Jayboys.

Reg and Dewayne feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But I know for a fact the first photos of ya'lls figures that were customized were put on the miggle message board by me. Way before I ever saw them on either of your websites.

All I can say is Thank GOD for Mr. Combs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!thmbsp$

Peace,

OldSchool

I began customizing...
 

my figures long before Jay Boy and I started collaborating. I was customizing when I was getting "hammered" and "bashed" on other sites saying my players looked like army men and Frankenstein and everything else.

I once stepped on one of my figures in the early days of FF.COM and realize that "I could take what some see as a negative and turn it into a positive". This meant that while most were highly critical of my softer than traditional plastic, for what I wanted to show, it made customizing even more easy. I then took my knowledge of engineering, especially in metallurgy, and concluded ways of taking our product plastic and heating it and then re-cooling it to shape whatever I wanted.

I showed this process to my good friend Jay Boy. He then came to my house and I showed him many ways to enhance the figures. He showed me some of his methods as well. I think we stayed up about 50 straight hours just hanging out.

But out of necessity and "rage", I took a negative and turned it into a positive. I now produce well over 1,000 different custom figures and it came from knowing sites and people thought so bad of what I was doing. I have DVDs that show people how to do the same thing. Not many vendors or people would be willing to give back after being slammed so negatively.

Old School, my friend, while your memories are fond, mine are not so fond. But what I did was for the good of the game. And now, guys are customizing all over the country using the figures that many criticized and are doing an outstanding job with them. I don't think customizing players hurt teams but enhance the overall miniature football experience.

Reg

Hi Biglock,

Greetings to you my friend and good post. Here is my opinion on the subject. To begin with the custom figure movement is NOT killing traditional EF/MF. There is still, and always will be, a place for traditional figures. Unfortunately the traditionalists might be ruining themselves and here is why. I might be wrong but my guess is that at any tournament you go, with one exception, custom figures are allowed and used by most coaches in attendance. As was said earlier life evolves and this hobby has evolved. When we got our first EF gameboard as children we were excited and played with the traditional figures. As adults we want more realism. Not just adults but even those who are not adults who play the game want more realism. Why is Madden so popular among the younger generation ? Answer because of the realism. I was speaking to a new coach in my area the other day. He now is looking to purchase custom figures after seeing pictures of them on the chatboard. Gameboards have been updated and made larger so why the fuss about the custom figures. I am pretty much a tradionalist but now I only want to play with custom figures. Yes the traditional figures will always be there but for the traditionalists you might as well deal with reality because custom figures are HERE TO STAY. Not only are they HERE TO STAY but trust me with so much talent in the hobby the custom figures will only GET BETTER.

Coach J

Sounds good to me...
 

Reg,

I wasn't here at the start of this community so I can only go by what I've seen since 2001. I don't doubt that you were the first person who customized your figures. I just stated that the first time that I saw your figures customized it was done by Jayboy. He brought home the figures he had done in Texas while hanging out with you. At the time that he did them... there were no pictures of your customized figures on any of the websites. The first pictures of FF.com custom figures were the ones I put up on the Miggle message board.

Please keep doing what you do. Because we are all still learning from all of you great customizers. The point that I'm trying to make is that no matter who the manufacturer is.... Jayboy has customized your stuff and he did it years ago. I know that a lot of guys on this message board and miggles remember a lot of the pix that I posted of Jay's and Chris's works over the years. Many coaches have told me that they have downloaded a lot of those pix to use as models for their own works. I'm just fortunate that I was able to see most of their stuff up close.

Peace,

OldSchool

Definitely Jay is a Pioneer
 

Jay and I always use to talk about Dirk. That's who he admire. But Jay was definitely in a class (and still is) by himself.

I love being around Jay because he is as unselfish of a person and customizer that there is. He sees something special in what others may think is junk.

If it was not for Jay, I probably would have stopped customizing because we'd talk a lot about ideas. He had great ideas and was always willing to share.

Guys will get a chance to see Jay at the SWB and I hope they don't take it for granted. Craftsmen like him are few and far between.

Reg

Another thing...
 

Jayboy liked all the figures made by the different manufacturers. He liked Buzzball, haiti repros, FF.com and E-Gridiron. If you guys didn't do such a good job making them... he might not have been able to reconfigure them.

memories...
 

Don,

I think the thing I remember most is seeing Pat, ............................maybe because he is sooo BIG!lffng$ so if I left out you and Jayboy I apologize....

I know Jay was always doing something, but I remember Pat coming up to me and showing this and that, ............

And I also remember being worried about unveiling the BuzzBall MAG 7, .............that guys wouldn't like the figures because of the seams around the arms...................but what I thought would be a negative turned out to be a huge positive and one can EASILY make 1000's of different poses without the use of heat, but, just by switching arms and gently bending them or moving the same arms up or down,......and give the figures a completely different look, ..............see the youtube video......... Folks, arrive early to BuzzFest Friday and I'll try to show you some things.......;)

back to the unveiling, .........they liked them !,.......................but many guys wouldn't allow them in their leagues because of one reason or another, :confused: even though they were in line with the existing standards that tudor had established..........and they blend beautifully with the teams of the past! :cool:


For the longest time many considered them "custom" figures, .......... but they are not custom because they are mass produced. :confused:

Some guys expected me to come to their tournaments, but BuzzBall Figures were not allowed, ........:confused: No, .......... I dont' think so

But now, ...................years and tears later, ..........I'm happy that BuzzBall figures and the classic repros are a mainstay of many teams across the country.thmbsp$

Coach Rip! I just wanted to tell you man, your buzzball fig's are the one reason why I get back into this game, thmbsp$. Thanks for your all your hard work. ppls$

Poppin plastic...
 

Rip,

Jay had switched arms and applied heat to raise and lower appendages on just a handful of figures. It was Patrick who went hog-wild poppin arms off dozens of Mag-7's mixing and matching pieces left and right then glueing them back on the sockets. Pat was smiling ear-to-ear, like a kid in a candy store that weekend. It's something I'll never forget.

- Don

BB High quality....
 

Coach Rip has provided high quality figs and equipment for a number of years.
Today you can't really field a competative team without some of these players!!!

Coach, any truth the the "rumor" or a reverse Mr. Everything? drl$$