O-lineman "intelligence" improvement
 

Does anybody allow offensive lineman to be audibled if the lineman doesn't have a defensive player directly across from them? It seems to me that this would go a long way in improving the strategy of "traditional styles" of electric football. I am a big fan of the ITZ dial bases to help resolve the issue of the stupid electric football lineman, but it seems to me that allowing unengaged offensive lineman to be audibled (angled) before the snap (just as any other skill player can be) makes for a more realistic game play and would be more fun in setting up plays.

Great topic Joe!
 

Joe,
It makes perfect sense to me. I am all for making more intelligent rulings for "pre snap" movements. I frown upon multiple stops and "walking" the players through the play. I do want to reserve the "electric football" aspect of the game. Rulings such as the 10 yard stop rule (pivot defenders) is a good rule as it allows the defensive secondary some intelligence. I also like being allowed on a pass to pivot 1 offensive player to throw a block for a reciever. In addtion I like the reciever to pivoted after the completed pass as this also gives him intelligence.

Offense- sets up
defense- sets up
offense -2 pivots... lineman do not count as a pivot.
defense- equal pivot to offense
stops occur only on a pass attempt or after 10 yard gain.

Let me hear your thoughts.

Geno H

In the mid -Ohio league , we allow 2 movements or angles or any combimation thereof . You can angle a lineman , but it has to be part of your movements.

I find that pivoting a receiver after a pass can lead too many TDs and too much yardage, not realistic in my experiments.

I used to do this in solitaire play and then started playing LAEFL rules early this year (no pivot after the reception), I asked why they do not allow the pivot, then I began to see why, it is just not realistic.

Those who allow pivots, do you think it is too easy and too beneficial on the offense?

If you need to pivot the receiver, then really test your skill as a passer and do it with the ball. I am a pretty good passer, but find that in trying to pivot the receiver with a hard pass actually improves the passing skills in general.

I have seen a lot of skilled coaches turn the receiver with a hard pass, to me that's an invaluable skill to have and one that I continue to work on.

I know a lot of leagues allow a pivot, but now that I stopped doing it, I like it better this way.

Geno and Jeff- I would think you would want 3 pre snap angles if you allow lineman to be angles (and they count as an angle). This would allow you to set up more plays.

Shabby, this thread was supposed to be about lineman. However since you mentioned angling recievers after the catch then I will say this- if you only know how to play smash mouth corner back techniques and consistently allow recievers to get past your corners (even by 2 yards)then yes there will be a lot of yards after the catch. That is the whole point of the rule, to promote various styles of playing pass defense and to promote speed on the outside instead of smash mouth power (which I think is unrealistic).

Yes, I am aware it is about linemen, I did not mention angling the receiver after the catch, Geno first did and I was commenting on that!!

Since we are a league where we would rather err on the side of the offense , we allow the defense to have 1 more angle or motion than the offense. We cap the offense on 2 angles and the defense on 3 . This is the only area where we have given the defense the advantage.

I don't think Geno advocated angling the receiver after a catch....he was lobbying for another offensive player to be angled for a block. I think that is a great idea.

I think the angling of linemen would all be solved if we used strategy dividers. You can't see pre-snap angles there....and it forces one on one blocking match-ups....and that is realistic. You can still hit gaps. You just need to angle your guy or adjust his dial pre-snap. You don't get the luxury of peeking at the other coaches set or trying to look at the dials pre-snap. I like that.

We have set up clocks for both the offense and defense . If a coach tries to watch the other team set up their players , then most likely they will end up with a delay of game penalty .
We do allow lineman to be angled after a pass is completed , as long as the completed pass was completed behind the line of scrimmage .

Joe,
You are probably right 3 pre snap angles would make sense. thmbsp$
Your thought process on angling recievers is exactly like mine in the fact trying to promote a more cerebral pass defense.

Shabby,
I am aware of the technique of passing to redirect the reciever with the ball. The boys in the DFW do it very well. However I would like to see Coaches be pressed to be creative on defense to overcome this. So I am actually suggesting an offensive freindly rule to provoke the the defense to up thier level of play.

FinFan,
I would like the ability to throw a block.thmbsp$


Geno H

Joe And Geno
 

I Am In Favor Of The Angling Of Uncovered O-lineman Also The Angling Of Lineman Say After A Screen Pass Or Shuttle Pass,but You Said Something About Stopping A Play After Gaining Ten Yds, It All Makes Great Sence To Me , But Those Rules Were Brought To A Vote Before The Season Started And Were Gunned Down.

[quote=Geno H;52109]Joe,
It makes perfect sense to me. I am all for making more intelligent rulings for "pre snap" movements. I frown upon multiple stops and "walking" the players through the play. I do want to reserve the "electric football" aspect of the game. Rulings such as the 10 yard stop rule (pivot defenders) is a good rule as it allows the defensive secondary some intelligence. I also like being allowed on a pass to pivot 1 offensive player to throw a block for a reciever. In addtion I like the reciever to pivoted after the completed pass as this also gives him intelligence.
Offense- sets up
defense- sets up
offense -2 pivots... lineman do not count as a pivot.
defense- equal pivot to offense
stops occur only on a pass attempt or after 10 yard gain.

Let me hear your thoughts.

GENO SAYS IN THE LAST LINE OF HIS PARAGRAPH HE WOULD LIKE THE RECEIVER PIVOTED AFTER THE COMPLETED PASS!!! I was just commenting on that part of his reply.

Shabby J,
Its all good! Thats what I said...... its my fault for adding to Joes original topic.


Geno H

Geno, all is well, I was enjoying the thread and felt I could comment on part of your reply.


Life is good!

Nope....I think pivoting the receiver after the catch is just too much of an advantage for the offense. I do however like being able to pivot unengaged players on offense after the catch to allow for legal blocks (no blocks in the back, for instance). If the "D" can pivot his unengaged players, then why not the offense??

pivoting receivers after the catch has not run up the score or made it too easy for anybody who plays in the momfl. it keeps safeties back in zone and demands different types of pass defenses. i keep stats for the league, and i do not believe that in 2 seasons, anybody has scored more than 35.
turning after the catch IS a positive for the offense, but it forces a little more honest defensive play within our league. imo.

I appreciate all of the feedback I think its been good. I think there has been really good feedback so far and I respect all of the opinions stated. Obviously there's no right or wrong, a particular rule that you play with depends on so many factors- board size, board speed, and other rules like...initial lineman setup rules (D in gaps yes or no), is a pass allowed to engaged recievers, passing sticks allowed yes or no, etc...

Thanks to all who have responded. Shabby..thanks for your feedback on the angled recievers, I'm sorry if you felt called out or anything, I was just trying to keep a post on message. You write many great posts on this chat board (including this latest feedback on angled recievers), please keep it coming!!!

Intelligent o-line
 

I'm for being able to adjust unengaged o-linemen during a play or after a catch. I'm experimenting in solitaire play where you do a quick on/off stop to simulate the snap. You can then adjust ALL unengaged players on both sides if you wish. I believe in adjusting the receiver after the catch. As one poster mentioned this forces the defensive coach to "coach up" his DB's. Learn how to play defense to cover areas of the field. Turning the WR after the catch has not created more points but again this is in solitaire play. I just make sure I have players back in a zone and I'm learning to have my corners run with the receivers. Perhaps adding one more stop to turn defenders after 10 yards down field will help the DB's make more "big play" preventing tackles.

I SAY ADJUST BOTH O-LINEMENT AND WIDE RECEIVERS....WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF?

Turning the focus back to the linemen, I kind of like the idea of adjusting the unegaged offense after the catch, as was mentioned, the defense gets to angle all ungaged players thus making them "intelligent", why does the the offense not get that same option?

I am going to experiment with this, as far as pre-snap, not sure yet, I will play around with that too. In the LAEFL rules, the offense can audible, but this only applies to the QB and two backs, maybe a "smart" lineman can be audibled as well. The wheels are turning now.

I do realize, that what may work or seem fairly realistic in solitaire play may not test so well in actual head to head competition.

Good stuff though!!


Thanks Michigan Joe, we are getting back on topic now!

turning the unengaged offensive players is a great idea, but i would think that it would have to be timed. just a few seconds to make all of the adjustments, that way it keeps the flow of the game at a faster pace.

Chris, yes I agree with necessity for timed audibles. I like rules that have the board on as much as possible and I agree that the pre-snap setup must be FAST. My recommendation would be 10 seconds for offense or whatever the current league rule is, just add unengaged O-lineman to the mix of players that can be audibled.

Agreed.thmbsp$ The pace and flow is very important in any set of rules. The time allowed with any of these suggestions is top priority. Nothing can kill the fun of the game more than slow set up or adjustments.


Geno H

The audibles and pivots at the line of scrimmage should not affect the flow of the game at all if you are using a 35 second (or similar length) set up clock for the offense.

any one else allow pivots to lineman?
 

By allowing the O-lineman to be angles (during audible time) you can...pull the guard, pull guard and tackle to the outside (along with the RB) to run an outside screen, have the tackle block out on the outside blitz, block down to double team a strong defensive lineman, and otherwise allow lineman an opportunity to react to the defensive line configuration. Obviously the reaction capaability is limited though because the key to the whole thing is a limited number of audibles (example 3) so if you angle two lineman then you could audible only 1 RB (for example). Since the defensive line sets up after the O-line I think this would add a great element of strategy (and increased difficulty) in how to set up a defense so you don't get baited by the initial set up. Keep the feedback coming...

side bar...FF, I believe that the audibles are timed seperately from most play set up clocks (which is how I play). I know the shootout rules allow 10 seconds for offensive audibles while defense only gets 5 seconds. This is after the play clocks expire.

I would agree with being able to adjust any un-engaged linemen for pre-snap adjustment,however in our league where you are using the strategy divider, wouldn't the linemen then be in one of the slots outside of those designated for linemen??? Or do you guys who use this format allow those types of players in positions outside of the line area.


raiderhp