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Question...
What is realistic about rolling dice, and passing sticks and all that stuff? Sounds like monopoly to me.:confused::confused::confused:
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Sticks: As you know these are plastic figures that can't think, or react. The stick messures a distance in order to lead the receiver to a spot. If you watch football, how many times do you see the QB throw a pass and the receiver is not even in the picture, then you see the receiver come into the frame to catch the ball. Well it is the same thing. Once you messure with the stick and place the ball down and remove the stick you are realistically throwing ie leading the receiver allowing the receivers speed and ability to run strait to ack like or simulate the receiver catching the ball, in real time when you turn the board on. The players do the work, you just position them to do so. Procedures on how something is done is the key to simulating realism. |
Ok....
I have been coaching sports for many years.
Can someone tell me how stopping the board multiple times has anything to do with realism or coaching? Only during a controlled scrimmage am I allowed to go out on the field and tell players what to do and even then there is a limit to that. Tudorian made avery good post in another thread - coaching is training them up and them letting them play. I am not 'dissing anyone's style of play - as I have said before I play in 2 leagues with different rules and style - and enjoy both. |
The Picture Of Realism
When you see pictures from a football game, either by photo, or by antist, it captures all the elements of football with out distorting the game.
Realism captures all the elements of it subject and reproduces them in a real likeness. Model trains for example captures all the elements of real life, from the largest to the smallest detail. In this hobby some have captured the look of realism however the performance of realism as far as the game play, well that is up to others out side of this hobby to determine. My opinion is that what ever system you play under, either destorts realism or supports it's. |
The Realism In Stopping The Board
Coaches
In order to display on the miniature circuit what you watch on tv, YOU MUST STOP THE BOARD SEVERAL TIMES. I just found some post from the miggle chat i printed out back in 2004. One post was from the guru DR. KURT SMEBY. he said he stops the board twice to emulate real football. he said he stops the board to re route receivers, to have have his running backs cut back, and to have his defense adjust to a play. As history has it, everyone views dr. smeby as a guru and one of the great minds that ever set foot in our hobby. DOESN'T ANT BURGESS DISPLAY THIS SAME SENTIMENT. barry sanders is a good example for the MPFL SYSTEM. barry was a cut back genious. you can create on the board what he did if you stopped the board and found other holes/avenues if his primary lane is being cut off. YOU CAN'T DO THAT IN TRADITIONAL EF. Once the board goes on the runner goes in one direction until someone touches him. (HE MAY CHANGE DIRECTIONS DUE TO BEING TANGLED UP WITH ANOTHER PLAYER BUT THAT IS BY LUCK AND CIRCUMSTANCE). In the MPFL you control the cutback through your vision on the field, not by circumstance. Also, the runner must make his own plays without the help of a blocking qb. If you sweep right and see you are about to get trounced, you can reverse field via the next stoppage. Just like barry sanders would do. TRADITIONAL EF/MF IS SHEER LINE THEM UP AND LETS SEE WHAT HAPPENS. THE MPFL IS LINE THEM UP AND I HAVE 4 CHANCES TO MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN. MAJOR DIFFERENCE !!!!!!!!!!!! THE MPFL IS AN ENTIRE SYSTEM, NOT JUST A RULE SET. LIKE THE GREAT JIMMIE JOHNSON SAY'S, "SOMEBODY MAKE A PLAY" I think it is more realistic to have 4 chances to develop a play you designed, as oopposed to having just one chance and hope it works. *** imagine if barry sanders or the juice just ran in one direction to it's completion, we would say they were boring runners. MPFL, GET READY FOR THE RICKY WILLIAMS AND BERNIE PARMALEE SHOW !!!! MANTARAYDRE |
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In the old movies, King Kong for example, stop motion animation was used. Move the model a little take a picture. This was done rerepeatedly, the result the model became alive. This theory is the same. Close you're eyes, and play football. Can you see what you need to do? Can you see who you need to block. What would this look like in real life, it would look like men running around without direction, is this how you're playing. Now don't get into you're feelings, just try to understand my point. If you have coached for years then as a coach you should know that action and reaction are keys to performance. If the player move hear you do this, if you see this you do that. giving the player instructions to follow is coaching is it not ? Football is a game of action and reaction and you can not accurately play football with out it. ( 2-4 stoppages depending on the performance on the field) not every play lasts 4 stoppages some are 2, snap of the ball, 1st stoppage = a sack or other. Coaching is :To train intensively by instructions, demonstration and practice, ( TO DIRECT THE MOVEMENTS OF PLAYERS ) is that in you're dictionary?:) To instruct, direct, or prompt as a coach. Program is : A brief use, out line of order to follow, the performance of a program. Now when you tweak a base you are programing it to do 1 thing, this is called programming, not coaching. When you direct the movements ( meaning more than 1 direction ) you are coaching. But if you think programming is coaching then the dictionary is wrong, so if you are offended, let it be that Webster's not me.:rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :) :) :) :D :D :D Try this, tape a football game, 1 play, then watch it. Once the ball is snaped pause it! Now see what is going on, Now press play and let it run for 2 seconds and pause it again. what do you see? That is why you need stappages in order to simulate football in realism. |
Too bad...
The coaches in REAL football don't get to do that - hit a switch and stop the play to adjust.
That is why they spend hours COACHING the players to achieve certain results once the ball is snapped. (we train/tweak/develop plays and sets) |
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Artlax...
you are right on, my man. I don't understand it either. Once everyone sees our video with our style of play, I think that many will be amazed at how real it is. It is coming soon!
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Wow!!!
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And I want good credit like Lomax, he cosigns a lot ! LOL |
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Many, many, many coaches see it the way you do. thmbsp$ Geno H |
Using the MPFL System
Im new here and feel like i should read, and not really post however, remembering this game from the late 60's, and 70's, it was ok to play but the lack of control made it somewhat unrealistic. Like today's video sports games where as some are arcade oriented, and some are sim oriented, i guess it depends on what you prefer. I recently started playing this game again, this time using most of the rules from the MPFL system. I have made minor modifications, but most of the system is Mr. Burgesses. I can see both sides of the opinions here however, even though in real life coaches can't stop the play and make adjustments, you never see players running in the opposite direction of where the ball is, nor do they decide to just run out of bounds 40 yds from where the play is. This game deals with figures, and bases, and neither one of these have a thinking apparatus. So i see the timed stoppages as a nice way to interject the thought process of this game. Reaction is a huge part of football, and without stopping the game at certain points, its kind of hard to achieve some sort of realism. That being said i believe it still comes down to whatever style of play makes you happy, and just enjoy the game.hlmt$
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I use dice for passing, penalties and fumbles. I don't have any problems relating the chance of a number coming up with the chance of a fumble occuring or penalty or an incomplete pass.
Let's face facts. The players on the field are plastic. They can't hold, clip, grab a facemask, go in motion illegally etc. About all they can do for a penalty is line up offsides, or jump offsides if somebody bumps the board by mistake. As far as fumbles go, yeah, you could place the ball into a running backs hands and see if it falls out. But then you would spend a lot of time transfering the ball back and forth between players. Besides, someone would find some sort of stick 'em to use so that fumbles would almost never occur. As for passing, TTQB, sticks or dice doesn't really matter to me. As long as the results are more or less realistic. Someone who completes 90%+ of their passes isn't really realistic when you stop to think about it. Nor is playing with guys who aren't very adept at passing and only complete 10% of their passes. I use my dice, and I can look at my stats and see that a QB was 7-13-1 or maybe 14-19-0 or 4-10-2 and think ok, I had a QB who had an average day, one who had a great day and one who probably wished he'd stayed home in bed. How the passes ended up completed or intercepted isn't as important to me as having them occur in a more or less realistic manner. The dice can be streaky. I've had times when I've completed 6 or 7 in a row, and also missed 6 or 7 in a row. That stuff happens. Next time you're watching a football game and the QB completes a pass, just imagine that a 3 came up on his dice, or if he missed that a 6 came up. The bottom line is that we are playing with pieces of plastic that can't bend, think, or manuver in a manner that a real person can. So, it's up to all of us to use our imaginations to make this game enjoyable. If a guys likes stopping the board a few times to change the direction of his players, or if a guy like using dice or sticks for passing, then let them enjoy it. Live and let live! |
i have a question about the MPFL system. You seem to want to control the movements of the players to simulate real action, and i get that and like that. but we have mainly discussed the skill position players being manipulated as well as the players directly involved in the play. But i am curious to know about the other players in the background. being that you simulate realism:
What do you do if your runningback hooks on to a player and gets turned around? What if a player gets hit by another teammate and turns around? What do you do if guys (not necessarily involved in the play ) are running in the complete opposite direction or just the wrong way altogether? What do you do when men (not the ball carrier) are tangled up and spinning in circles? Do you find a way to create realism throughout the board on a play? |
How Far Will You Go For Realism
When I look at the different styles of play, I see that all of them are limited in some way. None of them truly capture the realism that some of us are looking for.
I am shooting myself in the foot when I say this but, in regards to the traditional style of play, allowing the players to go on their own based on how they were trained during practice is not real because the players can’t stop and turn like a real human being would in real life. It certainly isn’t real because nearby defenders allow the ball carrier to run by uncontested. The MPFL style leaves some things to be desired in regards to capturing realism in that one must stop the board in an effort to get the players to respond like a real life player would. The problem here is that the action has to stop before one can react. Real life players don’t stop before reacting. The movement is constant. If I combined the two styles, I would get a game where I would adjust players as the board continues to run. I would only stop the board after the play is over. If someone tries to play that way, let me know how that works because I am not trying that. It would be a mess. I say all of this to say that one has to draw the line in regards to how much realism he or she is trying to get out of this hobby. Maurice The Electric Coach |
Why you need stoppages
Open you're minds!
We all need to breath, eat, and drink to sustain life. But did you know that when you drink or swallow that you temporally STOP breathing! You choke when you try to breath and drink or swallow. In order to achieve realism with plastic figures you need to stop the board to do so, much the same way you're bodies must STOP breathing so you can drink you're soda, or swallow you're hamburger. Stopping the board is natural to achieve realism of a football player doing what football players do, think, react, counter, pursue etc. |
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:eek:I am sorry, maybe it is just me, but If this was an answer to the questions i asked in the previous post, then i still dont get it.mgngcrz mgngcrz mgngcrz |
Field test Challenge
With the football game coming on tonite let everone who has posted participate.
Let's watch the game and count the number of times a player changes directions, write the players number and how many times he changed direction. Now see if you can tweak you're player to change directions just like you seen in the game, and do it without stopping more than one time. No matter how much programming ( that is what tweaking is ) you do you can not achieve the same result as seen in tonites game without more than one stoppage . If you feel strongly strongly that you're sytem and players can do this, then man up for the test! What do you say? |
Micheal Downs
I will answer you're question when I get home, I am at work on my iPhone and I need tobe home befor I answer you're question
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stop, lets go this way >>>>>>>>
coaches
I will let ant explain this in detail later, but with each stoppage, where the player is determines what you can do. there is a 3 yards buffer rule that determines whether or not you can adjust the player and defensive player there are engagement rules that determine movement. If your player runs ofcoarse, depending on the 3 yard buffer(defender in the area)you have a chance to turn a broken play into something (ala barry sanders) mantaraydre |
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YOU CAN POST FROM AN iPHONE????????? NOW I KNOW WHAT I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS!!!!!! thmbsp$ thmbsp$ drl$$ drl$$ :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :chr: :chr: thmbsp$ thmbsp$ |
The modern day cell phone, you gotta love having wireless internet in your pocket....and better yet its a good change of subject because this ones real old
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The covered player rule is out lines witch players you can and can not adjust this keeps and prevent players running all around the board until the final run time. To learn more just go to the web site |
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Example : LB#50 Move right(1), avoid being blocked (2), run around the trash (3), adjust to tackle the runner (4). |
Who's In
So what coaches are willing to do this please post under my post.
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Last Nites Game
On the field test of the game last nite, I watched every position on the field.
Players on an average changed direction 2-3 times durring the play " on there own ". This equals out to the players intelligence, being able to react to what's doing on in front of them. With a tweaked base ( programmed ) it is only capable of performing in one direction. Stoppages ( pause ) in the action allow for change of direction and simulate the players intelligence. So what did you guys come up with ? |
Who started this thread?
I want to let everyone on this board know that I did not just start this thread out of the blue. It has been made to appear that I started it, just to attack others' style of play. My original question was part of a totally separate thread, asking this question of the person who started it. For whatever reason, my question was broken off into a new thread to make it appear that I started this mess. Why? I don't know.
Dallcow |
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