Question from people looking in.

[NEW CASTLE HiTMEN]

In my never ending endeavor to promote and get people involved in Miniature Football, I have been asked alot of questions. Here are a few. How do you get the players to run straight? Do the teams look any better than they did in the 70's and 80's. Is there really any stratedgy to this game? These questions were asked by friends who invited me to play in a STIGA Table Top Hockey League. My responses were YES to all. So, I whent home and packed up a few players, bases and my field. They were amazed. Man I was pumped. I finally have recruited some new coaches. WRONG. My buddies couldnt believe what I was spending, as far as money, on this hobby. I told them to have a team like mine with all the bells and whistles, bases and a field would probably run you around $300.00. My one friend spent $85.00 on his Hockey game and it came with everything you need. My question to everybody is, Is the lack of a good manufactured game and teams hurting our hobby?

[MplsTom]

Two things that really hurt:

1) Shelf space - the game needs a lot of shelf space. The smaller game boards were an attempt to combat that, but those games really don't play well. Then, you have the liability of an electric toy...batteries were much safer and more portable, but again, it wasn't the same.

2) Out of the box...while the bases have become much better...the "sprue" concept still leaves them vulnerable. There needs to be a final step, whether that is flashing the prongs (don't insert visual here) or something to get them to run better out of the box. People need immediate gratification...especially children. There should be the bases that are reliable out of the bag and the n the niche entries for more "premium" bases offered by other vendors where guys can invest in the finer equipment like any hobby.

[Orleanian In Exile]

If your friends ask you how to get into the hobby at a starters level —something around less than $100, the best advice is to point them to Miggle's Rose Bowl game set: 34x18 board and two college teams for around $90 for the full package. You can also advise them that there are plenty of good used boards available on E-bay which they can pick up a lot cheaper along with bags of teams. I know it's not up to the standard of what can be had with the finer custom monster boards, and the figures are basic, but it will be sufficient to get them started if they haven't been completely put off the idea. I don't think I've spent more than $200 total for the two boards, bases, and several bags of teams I've got and I'm already set up enough to have my own solitaire league.

It's just a matter of outlining the idea of getting into the hobby as a bargain hunter. Let them know there are ways to start off in MF without blowing the monthly paycheque doing so and they'll be a lot more eager to take the plunge.

[detroitchild]

I know I almost choked after I returned to the hobby a year and a half ago and found out how much it cost to REALLY be involved in this hobby. Now....I rarely bat an eye at the prices/costs I see out there. (That don't mean I can afford it)

Perhaps we can post somewhere on this forum an entry level amount with (some detail) a newbie could pay to get started in this hobby. How to go to eBay to purchase what you need AND the pitfalls or buying (we've all got horror stories). That would have helped me tremendously.

Your thoughts?

Don "detroitchild" Lang

[Electric Coach]

To be successful in this hobby, one must be a self-starter. People who are self starters make a commitment to gain the understanding of something. Commitment and understanding are virtues that are required in this hobby. Compare the level of commitment and understanding that is needed to play air hockey to that of electric football. In air hockey, the player simply hits the disc or puck in to their opponent’s goal either straight on or by bouncing it off the side rails. This can be achieved without practicing. There is nothing to understand to play air hockey. There certainly isn’t a need to commit to playing air hockey.

In electric football, one must commit him or herself to starting a team. Never mind playing the game; simply painting a team demands commitment and understanding. There are a lot of people who don’t have the time or the capacity to commit and/or understand on certain levels. This is the main reason why the hobby gets a bad rap.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

[detroitchild]

Maurice,

I usually don't disagree with your statements as I find you pretty insightful. I will have to disagree here. What I have found is that you have various levels of commitment in this hobby....and that's ok!

Some guys are fine with acquiring an inexpensive board and a few stock teams and they may have at it playing solitaire or kicking it with a few buddies. I started out that way and made the decision to do more. Some prefer to stay at that level of play/interest. If I'm understanding you correctly then I must say that not everyone needs to have the level of commitment and understanding that you or I do. They just wanna play. You can love this hobby and not spend the amount of time and money that many of us have.

What ever floats your boat.

Originally Posted by Electric Coach

To be successful in this hobby, one must be a self-starter. People who are self starters make a commitment to gain the understanding of something. Commitment and understanding are virtues that are required in this hobby. Compare the level of commitment and understanding that is needed to play air hockey to that of electric football. In air hockey, the player simply hits the disc or puck in to their opponent’s goal either straight on or by bouncing it off the side rails. This can be achieved without practicing. There is nothing to understand to play air hockey. There certainly isn’t a need to commit to playing air hockey.

In electric football, one must commit him or herself to starting a team. Never mind playing the game; simply painting a team demands commitment and understanding. There are a lot of people who don’t have the time or the capacity to commit and/or understand on certain levels. This is the main reason why the hobby gets a bad rap.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

[Electric Coach]

Originally Posted by detroitchild

Maurice,

I usually don't disagree with your statements as I find you pretty insightful. I will have to disagree here. What I have found is that you have various levels of commitment in this hobby....and that's ok!

Some guys are fine with acquiring an inexpensive board and a few stock teams and they may have at it playing solitaire or kicking it with a few buddies. I started out that way and made the decision to do more. Some prefer to stay at that level of play/interest. If I'm understanding you correctly then I must say that not everyone needs to have the level of commitment and understanding that you or I do. They just wanna play. You can love this hobby and not spend the amount of time and money that many of us have.

What ever floats your boat.

Detroit,

When you say, “They just wanna play” what do you mean exactly? Do you mean put a base on a figure and watch them go? Or do you mean tweak each base for each figure to perform and then let them go? If you’re talking about just giving each figure a base and watching them go, there is no commitment or understanding needed for that approach. I would agree with you if that is your definition of “they just wanna play”.
If your definition of “they just wanna play” involves applying a tweaked base to a figure and actually executing with a team, I would have to disagree with you. I would disagree because one has to be willing to understand how each figure moves on the board.

Give a non-hobbyist a team that is ready to play. Tell them how each player is supposed to move. An example would be a looping linebacker set on the right side of the defense that pursues to the left. Take that instruction and combine it with the instruction of the lane that the looping linebacker should be in to be effective. Watch their reaction to your instruction. Those who want to learn will try to understand. Those who don’t want to learn will give up.

You know like I know that a looping figure that pursues to the left plays on the right side of the board. If that figure is set too far to the right, the figure will loop too late missing the opportunity to make a tackle or sack. If that same figure is set too close to the left, it may run into the offensive and defensive lines or it may run away from the play depending on the depth of where it had been set. This example is for pursuit to the QB or RB that is set behind the center. I use that example because it is the most fundamental.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

[gridironpainter]

I think most of us got back into this hobby because of our love for it in our childhood. That is what is going to separate the new people with casual interest from the true diehard fans. However I think if they get to fully experience the differences in quality then they would all want to aim for the highest level possible.

I do wish there was not such a jump in quality from entery level to competitive level, but I think Reginald Rutledge's recent demos are an amazing way to get people to learn to do the customizing to make them passionate about the game. (Other figures can be customized too, just not as easily). I myself have talked to several people who have been very willing to help me learn how to tweak bases so I know that information is available. I do not mean to step on the toes of any decals sellers, but I am glad to share the files I create with anyone using Testors decal maker( as long as they dont turn around and sell them themselves!). I think if we all start working together to build the hobby then it can meet its full potential.

Finally, I have been in several other strategy games and I know most are a major investment that you don't want to make in haste. Because of that, I have known many people who would let the potential players use armies(in that case) and play with several untill they knew what they wanted. I think the key is not to just have league play, but have time where people just show up somewhere to play pickup games, and let any interested people join in. Sure there will be the people who come and go without commiting, and there wil be the occasional person who keeps showing up playing with others peoples stuff for longer than they probably should, but in the end it doesn't hurt anything, and more often than not, people will choose to commit. I have seen it happen many times. Of course those times it was in Warhammer and Flames of War, anda few other other random games, but believe me, those can require just as much investment, but people still choose to start. I think the most important thing to do would be to play in higher profile places. Those other games do well becasue they are often played in the hobby stores, and the products are right there to buy as people are playing. The one thing that has to be certain though is no negative fighting (at least as little as possible), as rule disputes turn off more people than anything. In then end I think this hobby has much potential if we just let people see how it can be.

[detroitchild]

Originally Posted by Electric Coach

Detroit,

When you say, “They just wanna play” what do you mean exactly? Do you mean put a base on a figure and watch them go? Or do you mean tweak each base for each figure to perform and then let them go? If you’re talking about just giving each figure a base and watching them go, there is no commitment or understanding needed for that approach. I would agree with you if that is your definition of “they just wanna play”.
If your definition of “they just wanna play” involves applying a tweaked base to a figure and actually executing with a team, I would have to disagree with you. I would disagree because one has to be willing to understand how each figure moves on the board.

Give a non-hobbyist a team that is ready to play. Tell them how each player is supposed to move. An example would be a looping linebacker set on the right side of the defense that pursues to the left. Take that instruction and combine it with the instruction of the lane that the looping linebacker should be in to be effective. Watch their reaction to your instruction. Those who want to learn will try to understand. Those who don’t want to learn will give up.

You know like I know that a looping figure that pursues to the left plays on the right side of the board. If that figure is set too far to the right, the figure will loop too late missing the opportunity to make a tackle or sack. If that same figure is set too close to the left, it may run into the offensive and defensive lines or it may run away from the play depending on the depth of where it had been set. This example is for pursuit to the QB or RB that is set behind the center. I use that example because it is the most fundamental.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

What I'm saying is that there is no one definition of just wanting to play. That could be defined across a spectrum...from just putting the guys out there (though I'd admit even this requires minimal tweaking) to doing what you do...making EF a full production. What I'm saying is that there is nothing wrong with being on either end of the spectrum. We can't view someone else's passion through our own eyes. If they do like I did, grow with the hobby, or decide to stand pat with what ever they started with then it's all good.