Holding Receivers At The Los "how Did This Start ?

[mantaraydre]

THIS IS JUST A FRIENDLY QUESTION THAT'S PROBABLY DEBATEABLE.


How did holding the receivers at the line of scrimmage come to pass.
Is this just a strategy amongst various defenses ?
Alot of coaches say they can't get their receivers open and i was wondering is that part of a coaches overall gameplan. Realistically, in any NFL or college football game you never see a defensive back put a receiver in a bearhug and hold him until the lineman or linebackers get a sack ! Isn't that kind of what we are doing. Im just wondering why in many leagues receivers are not being let go and run a precise pattern. The defensive backs can run with him while others can run over and help out. If using the TDQ, you may have to throw into serious traffic.

When the receiver and db are at the line playing push me and i'll push you back, if the receiver gets free that db is out of the play headed towards his endzone.

SO IM JUST CURIOUS ON HOW THIS STARTED FROM YEARS GONE BY. MAYBE MANY MOONS AGO WHEN PLAYING IF YOU SAW A PLAYER BEING LINED UP IT WAS OUT OF INSTINCT TO PUT SOMEONE RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM.

It actually is a form of defensive holding (visualize deon sanders hugging drew pearson at the line of scrimmage and not letting go)

LET ME KNOW IF THIS IS JUST PART OF YOUR OVERALL STRATEGY, IT'S FINE IF IT IS. IM JUST CURIOUS ON THIS.


MANTARAYDRE

[Coach K-LO]

Dre,

"holding" a WR at the line has been around a long time.... it is termed "bump and run" by most. defense lines up the CB 'head up' on the Wr and what happens-happens....

With the invention of the cover corners aka guys with hands and arms across the front of the base, holding has taken on a new term.

If you add the fact that most coaches that use these figures, they are putting them on the strongest (TTC) base they can find that can run. Now you have CB that act like linemen and maul WR so that no one gets open except the RB that clears this traffic.

I don't really use these figures on the outside, but when I do I try to use only rookie bases....it keeps the playing field level in my opinion.

.02

k-lo

[Electric Coach]

This holding that we see on the board exists due to the nature of the hobby. We must remember that our teams aren’t real people. They are fixed figures that move as a result of the base that they stand on. The figures can’t continuously use their hands to get out of a block, to protect or to break out of coverage.

In the traditional style of play, the cover corner can be beat. A coach must use the right figure and base to do so.

If you want to stop the figures from grabbing one another, you will have to modify the game. In that, you will have to play under less traditional rules. There are two styles of play that can fix this “problem”. One of those styles is the divider board. Since neither coach can see where the other is lining up, the defense won’t be able to line up the corners directly in front of the receivers. That alone will get your receivers open more often. The other style of play is the MPFL style. In that style, you will be able to stop the board and make adjustments to your receivers and other personnel on the board. This style will get your receivers open as well.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

[Coach K-LO]

Originally Posted by Electric Coach

This holding that we see on the board exists due to the nature of the hobby. We must remember that our teams aren’t real people. They are fixed figures that move as a result of the base that they stand on. The figures can’t continuously use their hands to get out of a block, to protect or to break out of coverage.

In the traditional style of play, the cover corner can be beat. A coach must use the right figure and base to do so.

If you want to stop the figures from grabbing one another, you will have to modify the game. In that, you will have to play under less traditional rules. There are two styles of play that can fix this “problem”. One of those styles is the divider board. Since neither coach can see where the other is lining up, the defense won’t be able to line up the corners directly in front of the receivers. That alone will get your receivers open more often. The other style of play is the MPFL style. In that style, you will be able to stop the board and make adjustments to your receivers and other personnel on the board. This style will get your receivers open as well.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

Electric Coach, in the divider style, you can adjust on any players (wr/TE) that are angled once the divider comes up...you are allowed to reposition the CB, if you want, to the angle of the WR. If the offense lines up straight than you do not get this adjustment.

otherwise, you're right about the "right base and figure" for the WR position.

Originally Posted by Electric Coach

One of those styles is the divider board. Since neither coach can see where the other is lining up, the defense won’t be able to line up the corners directly in front of the receivers. That alone will get your receivers open more often.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

As Lomax said, and as one of the creators of the Strategy Divider, I gotta let you know, Mo, that there is ONLY one secret behind the screen - Which way is everybody pointing? ALL WRs are called out so the Defense knows what "package" is in the game; the 5 OL are always in the same positions; the QB is somewhere behind Center; and depending on the number of WRs called out, you can determine how many RBs are in the game - and they'll be somewhere between the OTs. THAT'S ALL THE SD DOES. IT ACTS LIKE THE BREAK OF THE HUDDLE.

[MplsTom]

Personally, I don't mind the holding at the LOS. There are numerous ways to combat this:

- Slot receivers angled
- Pick plays
- Backfield receivers
- Receivers that curve hard

To me, if the guy gets a good hold, then he, in essense, "covered" the receiver that play.

There are great passers in the hobby that can hit 90% of their passes easy. Many of them go 5-wide every play. Giving these guys "more offense" I don't think is necessary.

Also, when guys create their DB's, are they fast and can they curve into the QB so if they do release or the receiver pivots to another defender, then they are still doing something valuable in making the QB short-switch?? I don't mind that happening as I usually have a safety over the top on each side (cover 2).

One passing variation I would love to see is to take any unengaged defender within a certain radius (let's use blue-stick) and be able to position him anywhere behind the receiver...just to make the great passers "think."

You could then remove the guy and say that he went for the pick and not the tackle in a rule set where the guy gets to keep on running.

[jwoopie]

I Fully Agree With All Said, Of Course This Came About Years Ago, But The Offense Has The Full Advantage. In My Offensive Set My (wr), (td)'s Etc..... Has Their Assignments. They Are Set To Block-run Curls Or Crossing Pattern. It's About The Base That Player Is On And What Type Of Play You're Running. I'm Basically A Running Team, Because Of My Poor Passing Game, But I Can Get My Receiver Open As Well As Other Coaches In The League. Many Games Are Won On The Last Play. When The Game Tight We Fear The Wide Out As Well As The Run!!!!!!!!!!! The Game Has Been Modified With Differ Type Of Figures That Cover Corners Only Know What The End Zone Of The Opposing Team Looks Like

[Reginald Rutledge]

On every play, do you really think that the receiver gets a clean release off the line of scrimmage? You show me a team that allows the receiver to run freely and I show you a team that will get carved up 60-0!

Andre, I think this is one of those debates that rings of bringing crutches into the game. I know in the DFW League, the cover corner was invented at my house back in 1996. I was brainstorming ways of stopping one of the great passers in the league, Don Hudson. He had torched me in previous games with receivers running freely down the field.

So I began to watch great corners like Lester Hayes and Deon Sanders and the positioning and arm movement that they had at the line of scrimmage. I developed corners according to this style.

The first corner was called the cover corner. He was created in a way of hitting a wide receiver at the line of scrimmage. Releasing and then turning and running with the receiver. It happens more than 80% of the time. Then like so many things that are taken from my house without permission, corners were created in a grab and clutch technique unlike the ones I created. But the genesis of the cover corner have a specific part of the base it should be placed on and a certain width between the arms which disallow for holding. Therefore, my covers don't hold. They run and release.

Another type of corner I invented 3 years ago is the "shutdown" corner. He is very physical. He does not hold but instead he picks a player up at the line of scrimmage and throws him to the ground. Now that's not my fault if my defensive player is more physical than your WR?

You have to have WR's who bring that physicality to the game. That's where many do not understand the physics of the game, what makes a receiver able to get off the line of scrimmage. If you watch the DFW Super Bowl, under one of the most physical type of rulesets, on every play receivers were open in that game. Both teams had physical corners but holding was never an issue. And they got off more than 90 plays in the game!

I think many times because games are governed by plays instead of time, you just want your man to get open and an easy pass. That's why some leagues will not allow QBs to throw to engaged receivers. But corners jockey with WRs throughout the course of a game.

If you want to blame anyone for that, blame it on the genesis of the cover corner. However, as I stated the cover corner that comes out of my production are definitely chuck, turn and run with players.

Reg

[mantaraydre]

Reg,


Im sure coasches are going to want and see this chuck and turn in action.
sounds like a you tube moment. Im sure you trained your players to do it but i've never seen a DB turn and run with the receiver. he alway's goes straight ahead or out of bounds out of the play to make a play. I can see coaches having there db's lineup along side the receivers running in the same direction and having them angled to knock the receiver off course within a certain amount yards (7 to 10 yards i guess).


MANTARAYDRE

[Coach K-LO]

Originally Posted by MANTARAY- DRE

Reg,


Im sure coasches are going to want and see this chuck and turn in action.
sounds like a you tube moment. Im sure you trained your players to do it but i've never seen a DB turn and run with the receiver. he alway's goes straight ahead or out of bounds out of the play to make a play. I can see coaches having there db's lineup along side the receivers running in the same direction and having them angled to knock the receiver off course within a certain amount yards (7 to 10 yards i guess).


MANTARAYDRE

Dre,

the more you play, the more you will see some of these things in action. RR makes a good point, but I can achive the same thing from a traditional figure are the CB spot.

Keep on working on your team ..... you will begin to see some of these things the more you line up and play!!!!