Coaches that sit on the fence

[Megawattz]

Originally Posted by jeff

What I am saying about the cost is that it can cost that much or more, but as bruce and geno said a coach can be competitive with fab 5 and there own tweaked bases. I just hope coaches do not think that they have to spend that much $$ to be competitive.

Time or Money, for newbies to get there now "Money" to move through the ranks, create your own team, tweak your own team, biuld your own board for that team "TIME" either, or! no way around this one fellas! Those that choose "TIME" my phone has & always will be open to those that wish to create, for they are the ones that keep it alive, as only one can do so much.

[the french guy]

That 1200 is what you CAN spend it IS NOT what you have to spend to be competitive. This hobby is like any other hobby as far as cost you can spend alot of money for no reason or be sensible and shop around or ask for help. I have given away teams that are competitive anywhere and it cost less than 100 bucks.

It 's why I spoke about "open box" format. It's a thing that I saw in slot racing clubs. After some time, all the members of a club start to buy option parts, racing material, electronic controller, etc...and create racing classes for that type of cars.

Of course, if a beginner come into the club, he'll see he has to pay the club entry fee (let say 50usd) + a super pro electronic controller (200uSD), a race prepared car (around 200usd). AND he will have to prepare and tweak the car, because all that money will not make him competitive.

What is "open box format" ? It's a way to organize fair competitions. The guys pay a fee to enter a race. That fee (let say 70usd) will cover the cost of a standard brand new car, never used, in box. The organizators also have some spare new motors and specialized tires matching their race track.

When the race opens, every guy receive his car, motor and tires. No matter you're in the club for years of since yesterday. Equallity. They just put the tires on the car, and make the race. That type of tournaments is interesting because beginners and "pros" share the same material and same event.


On a season playing, same thing. They open several classes for everyone. Stock (means not modified) cars, modified cars, unlimited modified cars.

They also open at least ONE special schedule and a ranking for beginners/intermediate pilots (= for example, new comers with less than 1year in the club). So beginners can win or class themselves in a specific league matching their skills, in one word, progress, during the league season.


On a miniature football club/league, do the same. See what your members prefer concerning bases and figures, and make special events, schedules and rankings for these new comers.

FOr me, it's a lot better way to bring new people than giving them complete pro teams and stuff like that. THe good old story of "tell a man to fish" thing.


For example, imagine these events :

open box tournament : everyone (pro or beginner) will obtain a new bag of miggle painted 11man team, and about 24 bases (proline rookie, for example) new in bags.

they all have to tweak their bases before the event. No special tools or treatments. The good ones helps the worst ones. Perhaps special regular league ranking bonus points if you help the newcomers to do it, if you don't have "natural born teachers" in your league .

OR you can make a thing even simplier : one of the regular coach tweak enough bases equally to complete all the teams for the tournament. Then, put them in hats (one for linemen, one for receivers, one for loopers, etc...) and each coach in the tournament will pick up randomly 11 bases for his bag of miggle figures. Then, play the tournament, and let see what happens.

For regular season league, make a special newcomers ("rookie" or "freshman") league. Limit the rosters and the type and numbers of bases.


Just ideas from behind the fence Perhaps those ideas could seem silly or even naive, but believe me, I had some chats with really good slot racers (international champions during the 60's-70's-80's, from France, USA, germany), and they ALL said that the hobby has been killed in the 80's because of the "race for better weapons" stuff.

During that aera, slot racing was not playing with scalextric or aurora stuff anymore, people built big wood race tracks, they didn't use stock plastic car anymore, but metal high spec chassis, rewired motors, "tweaked" cars, special controlers and stuff like that...ANd the hobby almost died with the Veterans of it, because nobody was able to afford the cars, the tracks, and noboby was able to tweak the car the "professional way" these veterans did.

Hopefully, because of the new model running cars appearing in the 90's (plastic), easily available and affordable for almost everyone, the slot racing hobby breathed again. Back to roots sort of thing.


I believe the analogy with MF is really obvious.

[roller]

Originally Posted by the french guy

I had some chats with really good slot racers (international champions during the 60's-70's-80's, from France, USA, germany), and they ALL said that the hobby has been killed in the 80's because of the "race for better weapons" stuff.

During that era, slot racing was not playing with scalextric or aurora stuff anymore, people built big wood race tracks, they didn't use stock plastic car anymore, but metal high spec chassis, rewired motors, "tweaked" cars, special controlers and stuff like that...ANd the hobby almost died with the Veterans of it, because nobody was able to afford the cars, the tracks, and noboby was able to tweak the car the "professional way" these veterans did.

Hopefully, because of the new model running cars appearing in the 90's (plastic), easily available and affordable for almost everyone, the slot racing hobby breathed again. Back to roots sort of thing.


I believe the analogy with MF is really obvious.

Amen to this!!

This may sound hypocritical coming from a custom board builder, but I think that in order to keep our hobby going, we need a game set/assemble your own kit type thing that costs under $100 and plays well enough to hold someone's interest. We also need to allow newbies (myself included) a means to compete without feeling like they need to spend an inordinate amount of money or time to play.

I also like Dimitri's idea regarding the marketing of our "leagues"; calling them clubs. League's are intimidating, but clubs or social associations aren't. After you get together a few times and scrimmage or play a tournament, you'll be bitten by the bug!!

DR

[mozeek]

Money is a driving force in many ways. Help from leaguemates should not come at a healthy cost. We experienced coaches should ensure that we give them our best product to keep them and others in the hobby.


This should be a given especially to those "SELLING"

[Hoop27]

Bingo regarding the new players. If I told someone they would have to drop $500 to truly be able to get involved I would be laughed at and have generated ZERO interest. Under $100 for a complete starter set is the magic number. Especially for families! Under $100 mom or dad is willing to make a 'impulse purchase' to try something out. Over $100 is an investment. It's just human psyche.

As for the solitaire guys. 'Leagues' will need to reach out to them and invite them to local events that are more than league play if you want to get their eyeballs.

Originally Posted by roller

Amen to this!!

This may sound hypocritical coming from a custom board builder, but I think that in order to keep our hobby going, we need a game set/assemble your own kit type thing that costs under $100 and plays well enough to hold someone's interest. We also need to allow newbies (myself included) a means to compete without feeling like they need to spend an inordinate amount of money or time to play.

I also like Dimitri's idea regarding the marketing of our "leagues"; calling them clubs. League's are intimidating, but clubs or social associations aren't. After you get together a few times and scrimmage or play a tournament, you'll be bitten by the bug!!

DR

[Megawattz]

Originally Posted by Hoop27

Bingo regarding the new players. If I told someone they would have to drop $500 to truly be able to get involved I would be laughed at and have generated ZERO interest. Under $100 for a complete starter set is the magic number. Especially for families! Under $100 mom or dad is willing to make a 'impulse purchase' to try something out. Over $100 is an investment. It's just human psyche.

As for the solitaire guys. 'Leagues' will need to reach out to them and invite them to local events that are more than league play if you want to get their eyeballs.

Believe it or not, that product already exists, its called Miggle, they have an over the counter product available for purchase for a reasonable price. At that price it is the best we have, in order to market a new product many steps have to be taken, large sums of money at a risk no one is willing to take on. Custom products is just that custom, u can take a $10 Miggle team and compete, truly what were talking about is preferrences, what do u prefer, how much time are u willing to invest, do u have the patience to grow & create your own Franchise. The nature of the game has changed, performance far exceeds what has come before, when we start to speak of starter kits at whos cost & time is the next? We cant buy into the notion that u must have a $$$$$ team to compete, it all goes back to time or money. whats your preference?

[Hoop27]

That is actually a very good point MW in regards to Miggle! Are they actually available in stores? I have never seen one myself. I found the game again by searching online and got here first not to miggle.

One of the first thing I read on this site when starting to research it was their $150 product (the 620) was actually no good, and you would be better off finding an old one. That actually scared me away from the game initially because your next step up is around $400, now thankfully I looked into it again ten months later and decided the homebrew way was the best way to go for myself.

But you can't blame Miggle at all. They are a company trying to make money on their products. As we all would try to do. And make no mistake Electric Football is not the only game that faces these issues at all.

But getting back to the main point. If you want attendance to expand it has to be as outwardly open and friendly as possible. And as said before 'league' is a scary word for most people. (To me I see 'league' and I can't wait to get involved, but I also like standing in front of 100mph chunks of frozen vulcanized rubber so you can see how I'm in the minority )

Proper information for people when they stumble across you is key. And realize that YOU (any coach who reads this forum) are the best advertisement for this game! A simple question for every dedicated coach on here is to ask yourself 'How many people have I given one the player cards (MFCA business cards) to? And can I give more away?'

Sorry for that bit of a rant

Originally Posted by Megawattz

Believe it or not, that product already exists, its called Miggle, they have an over the counter product available for purchase for a reasonable price. At that price it is the best we have, in order to market a new product many steps have to be taken, large sums of money at a risk no one is willing to take on. Custom products is just that custom, u can take a $10 Miggle team and compete, truly what were talking about is preferrences, what do u prefer, how much time are u willing to invest, do u have the patience to grow & create your own Franchise. The nature of the game has changed, performance far exceeds what has come before, when we start to speak of starter kits at whos cost & time is the next? We cant buy into the notion that u must have a $$$$$ team to compete, it all goes back to time or money. whats your preference?

[detroitchild]

Originally Posted by Megawattz

Believe it or not, that product already exists, its called Miggle, they have an over the counter product available for purchase for a reasonable price. At that price it is the best we have, in order to market a new product many steps have to be taken, large sums of money at a risk no one is willing to take on. Custom products is just that custom, u can take a $10 Miggle team and compete, truly what were talking about is preferrences, what do u prefer, how much time are u willing to invest, do u have the patience to grow & create your own Franchise. The nature of the game has changed, performance far exceeds what has come before, when we start to speak of starter kits at whos cost & time is the next? We cant buy into the notion that u must have a $$$$$ team to compete, it all goes back to time or money. whats your preference?

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[Megawattz]

We seem to be overlooking the true nature of what we face ahead, for us that have been around for awhile understand whats at stake. Those that are just getting back to the hobby are excited about finding the hobby well & far advanced than how they remember it, just as I was. Some love the game just as a hobby nothing more, then there those that seek to elevate the game, how its played & embrace competition as a means of boosting the games overall appeal. Both can coexist together, just because others choose to put more time & money into what there doing does not mean that its going to ruin us. To the contrary the innovators are the ones driving advancement in the hobby, just like everything else money will always be a major factor in what kind of car u drive, unless u biuld your own, then time is what awaits u. no way around this fellas, I would like for someone to send me some tweaked bases for free but time is real, unless your so called "set" there is no one that has time to do anything for free just a fact. Compensation is what makes it possible for us to do what we do, without that no figs, boards, bases & other innovations, that take investment & "TIME" to get started & maintained would be possible. Be careful when criticizing what u yourself for what ever reason are not prepared to undertake yourself, youll be surprised at what costs are truly involved!

[ChrisStacey]

Bruce,
I couldn't have said it any better myself.Thank You !!!!!!
By the way,I pretty much agree with everything you've
said on this subject.

SEMPER FI,
Chris Stacey
Hampton,VA