Eric & Dave's Open Run College Tourney...web page is up

Great points Mike. This is why we need to flesh this out some more. I was not considering an additional 7 seconds, it was just 7 seconds for the D to adjust but we didn't scrimmage with clocks.

When we write this stuff it can get confusing, so let me try to discect the play way I understand it as clear as possible. Then Mike and Eric, yall can correct me where I'm wrong...

On the option play the O has the switch at the start of the play, when he stops the switch:

1. the pass clock starts and
2. He passes the ball down field to an identified receiver or running back or
3. He tells the defensive coach to adjust (when the D adjusts the pass clock stops just like on a scramble and the D gets 7 seconds)

After the defensive coach adjusts the play resumes and the pass clock resumes. At the point the O decides to:

1. Let the QB keep the ball or
2. Pitch the ball (automatically) to a RB that is within range of, behind, and with a clear path to the QB or
3. Pass the ball down field to a receiver or running back (Should this option still be available at this point?)

If the QB keeps or the ball is pitched the D angles again after a ten yard gain. If a pass is completed the D angles on the completion with no further adjustments.


This is how I understand it. Now please chime in with corrections/comments.

Dre, sorry about the X in registration, that was a mistake. Your registration only had Mantaray Dre as opposed to your real name so I didn't know how to spell it...what's the correct spelling.

DMC

[Ned Flanders]

Originally Posted by davidmc

3. Pass the ball down field to a receiver or running back (Should this option still be available at this point?)

I say no. He had his chance to pass and decided not to. The offense should not be able to watch how the defense adjusts and then decide to pass from there. Deciding whether to pitch or not, that makes sense. But for the QB to set up and throw the ball, that time has passed, IMHO.

[kotixblack]

Yes, I agree David.

Ned, I think that this is a good thing because it allows the offense all of the options that would be available in real football, & the pass clock starts when the field stops, so the QB should still have the option to pass (like a roll out). The defense must make its adjustments wisely, to cover the run as well as the pass, that is the reason the D gets to adjust on the option, then again if the pass is completed. Also, just as in real football, it would be difficult for the QB to complete a pass clear across the field, without the ball being batted down, or picked off.

[Hook'em Horns]

Everything sounds good except it seems that 1 item is still not clear.

Once the set is stopped the pass clock starts. If the offense says "pitch or run" the option to pass is gone.

stopping the pass clock, allowing the defense to adjust gives the offense time to gather himself, scan the field and decide where he is going with the pass all the while the pass clock is stopped. Not very fair.

If he does not pass on the initial stoppage the only options left are to pitch or run which will be decided after the defensive adjustments.

[kotixblack]

Mike,
I think it is just like a QB Scramble when the D gets to adjust, then the O gets to scan the field field just as it will be with the option. I don't think 7 seconds will give a huge advantage to the O. The O must take into account the adjustments made by the Defense, therefore the advantage gained is minimal. I think you were correct in pointing out that the 7 seconds for adjustments by the Defense should not be taken before the 20 sec clock is activated, but it should start when the set stops for the option, pass, or QB keeper. I think it is up to the D to make their adjustments quickly due to the running clock, and as you pointed out...not giving xtra time for the O to pick them apart. I think David & I initially wanted to give the D 7 seconds to adjust before the pass clock was started, but you pointed out that the O should be on the clock when the set is stoped.

[Ned Flanders]

I agree that the pass should be part of the option play. I just think that once the board stops and the offense doesn't pass and the defense adjusts, the pass should be off the table at that point. It keeps things simple, and as Mike says, it prevents the offense from finding a receiver after the fact (while the defense is adjusting).

Not a big deal, just my opinion. It'll be good either way.

[Hook'em Horns]

On the scramble rule normally 2 things happen the offense is either trying to get a better angle on a receiver or he is heavily pressured by the defense and he wants to scramble away from them. Both scenarios allow for the board to be turn on & then off a second time to make a pass attempt or a decision to run.

On the option after the defensive adjustment their is no more stoppages of the board until contact, unless its a pitch or run then after 10 yards the board stops for the defensive adjustment.

Here is why it wouldn't work the other way. Most people when pressured don't see all the receivers. Lets say for instance...

The option play starts. I run to the left and stop the set. The pass clock starts...20, 19, 18, 17. My intent was yo pass because the pitch man looks liike he will be tackled and I don't have a good read on the swooper to QB keep it. I spot an open receiver but I can't find my TTQB. At this time, I tell the the defense to adjust which will stop the clock at about 12 seconds. Now the defense has time to adjust. Now, while the time is ticking on the defense I have located my TTQB and have had time to gather myself and get in position to make the pass all before the defense time runs out. now my 12 seconds begin and I'm composed and I hit the pass.

Now in reality what QB has that kind of time? We must keep the pressure on the QB. Remember, he is running the option. A play that generally runs into the teeth of the defense. Very little time to make a decision. It should be a pressure pass!

Besides the defense normally needs more than 7 seconds for an adjustment. When you're turning dials 7 seconds is not enough time. We use 20 in the DFW league.

Just my thoughts!

[kotixblack]

I think I see what you guys are saying.
Ned & Mike, you're both saying that if you don't call your receiver when you stop the board initially, then the QB must keep the ball, or pitch it to an open RB. He is not allowed to pass. Correct? I hear you both loud and clear. Reg is right, we need to show a video. By showing a visual, it is easier to show why we do things a certain way. When David & I scrimmaged doing things the way we have been describing in these posts, there was no unfair advantage. Actually the set had to be stoped so quickly, due to the defensive pursuit, there were very few choices when it came to passing. Mike, & Ned, why don't you guys run some plays using the option, and tell me what you come up with...run the option with and without the opportunity to pass the ball after the pass clock is stoped. LMK, interested in what you guys find.

[Hook'em Horns]

I don't have access to video or cam. So I can't post my findings. However, I've run it thousands of ways already that is how I was able to come up with the origina scenario.

I will be in LA Thursday the 11th. 2 nights before the College tourney. I can show you guys then what I'm talking about!

[Reginald Rutledge]

to do some videoing of this in Virginia this weekend. I will be his guinea pig and he can just run it on me. We will put it on film and show it later.

Reg