Man, Do I have A Dilemma...

[BAXTER]

In the past this has not been that much of an issue. I have been able to control it to an extent. But, now it seems like I am busting at the bit to do some things I normally would not.

1) Do I make figures to compete with some of the more "modernized" custom figures that are being made now to specifically gain an advantage or do I use my normal figures with just a few slight altered figures? I can understand gaining an advatage. I thinkk most of us do it to a certain extent, but things appear to be way overboard now-aidays. When is enough enough? Where will it stop?

2) Many coaches these days are not precise with making pivots. Do I pivot several players several times until my pivot becomes a slide? Do I make one massive pivot with ends up being like a move?

I have been able to deal with the above for a while now, but it just reaches a point where you just have to shake your head and make a decision to either join the crowd or continue doing the right thing. Not trying to start anything, but I just had to get this off my chest.

Any feed is welcome.


I think I feel better already.

Thx!

-Adrian-

[The Rookie]

Adrian
You dont know me and have only heard of you , and from what I have heard you will not join them.

Just do what you do and it is always right to do right.

Just my take

doug

[mozeek]

I cannot believe how bad this has gotten.....(the pivot) I tell the Coach just move the guy because you have moved him anyways........this is a good topic.......I always thought or been told that pivots should be done from the back of the base....yet in many leagues i see coaches pivot using the front of the base which is curious to me since i was taught that pivots take place from the back...so the coach doesn't gain yards on pivots......

interesting post......

[kingATL]

This my take on it . If a coach has a problem with pivots you should make him use a marker , put the magnet ref down and have him pivot from there but remember you have to do the same, everyone isn,t perfect. To me you just have to tell the coach to use a marker to cut down confussion. Guys so hype to win they look for any kind of advantage. Its just gotten out of had, this is my thoughts of the matter. Maybe someone should post the correct rule way of a pivot.


peace

Pivots and advanced pivots should always have a marker - other than a finger which in some cases tends to do the electric slide as well as figures!!! - of some kind and should always have a time limit!!!

Originally Posted by BAXTER

In the past this has not been that much of an issue. I have been able to control it to an extent. But, now it seems like I am busting at the bit to do some things I normally would not.

Adrian… it’s weird that you brought this topic up. I just had a conversation this evening with a prominent Championship coach about some of the same issues. I know you’re bursting at the seams to do some things you normally wouldn’t but try to hang in there, because there are several coaches that feel exactly like you do.

1) Do I make figures to compete with some of the more "modernized" custom figures that are being made now to specifically gain an advantage or do I use my normal figures with just a few slight altered figures? I use either normal figures or normal figures with a few slightly altered figures when I play out of town where and when it’s allowed. I’ll use customs more in our home league because custom figures are more regulated, measured, and spelled out more specifically in our league rules. I can understand gaining an advantage. I think most of us do it to a certain extent, but things appear to be way overboard nowadays. When is enough, enough? Enough will be enough when like-minded people come together and discuss the loopholes in rules and equipment specs; make suggestions for changes and then put it to a membership vote. Where will it stop? It’ll stop when leagues figure out whether they want an arms race or something more like the nascar racing analogy that has been bandied about over the years.

2) Many coaches these days are not precise with making pivots. Do I pivot several players several times until my pivot becomes a slide? Do I make one massive pivot with ends up being like a move?

I see a lot of this as well. I usually don’t say anything unless the person starts getting crazy with it. I don’t want to seem like an azz, but sometimes these over extended pivots lead to points. We don't have pivot problems here in Tidewater because we use magnetic pivot sticks that were developed by Jayboy, Rich, and myself back in 2001. Chris Stacey brought the concept to life by making the original sticks that have been copied throughout our league over the years. I’ll try to enclose a few photos of them.

I have been able to deal with the above for a while now, but it just reaches a point where you just have to shake your head and make a decision to either join the crowd or continue doing the right thing. Not trying to start anything, but I just had to get this off my chest.

All I can say is… Continue doing the right thing.
Any feed is welcome.


I think I feel better already.

Thx!

-Adrian-

I hope this helps a little.

- Don

[GrandMasterKC]

A.Bax..I feel you, I may guilty of this and I have played Coaches who have done this, one in particular, who did plenty of that and some , threw passes right in the baited area. I knew my safety had him, this cat pivoted (placing him even closer to my safety, by design) and when I pivoted my safet he pushed him back saying he was not that close..gaining 1-2 critical yards to get his wr off the line and to the endzone. Bro, I was vexed and Ifelt like at times people will do what they believe your kindness or their perception that you may not know the rules of a pivot.....to their advantage. Byaself...if every body is doing the same thing right or wrong ...the innovator or the one who, sticks to what works for them..is the honorable one of their craft to themself. what others do if it works for them...it is what it is...but like you often tell me Coach.."Don't pay that no nevermind" Do you your success rate speaks for itself.

AKC

[BAXTER]

Thanks for responding Boston21, Morgan, Jasper, Jimbo and Don.

Boston 21
While there is a very good chance I will not succumb to the pressure, I must admit it can be a little overwhelming at times. I wanted to put this out there in an effort to help me better deal with it. I do not like zeroing in on one individual and talk about him behind the scenes, although it’s tempting. Fortunately, or rather, unfortunately enough, there is more than one individual that meets the above criteria. The number of coaches involved in this is starting to increase. Perhaps this is the new way of doing things. If so, I WILL CONFORM. No doubt about it. But, if it’s not, I would like for each league and tournament to address these issues with a no tolerance approach.

Mozeek
Yeah, it has gotten to be really bad. I have noticed some inconsistencies when it comes to pivots. Usually prior to the play starting, it is ok to pivot from the FOB, but after the play starts and the board shuts off, it is not allowed to pivot from the FOB. Rather right or wrong, inconsistent or not, I have adapted to this situation. So when allowed, I will pivot from the FOB. When not allowed, I will not. But, I see your point.

KingATL
This is my take on it. It’s not a problem to inform your fellow coach who has played this game for as long as you, how to perform a pivot. It is, however an issue when you have to do it repeatedly. In addition, it is an issue when the ref’s do not address it. First, the opposing coach should not be responsible for this, but if you do decide to speak up and out about, it should have to be done once. This is the responsibility of the designated ref(s) or if no designated ref, any coach who plays or has played under the rule-set who is watching. One of my pet-peeves is when you have a coach that witnesses these type of things going on and just walks away and talks about it later. This stuff needs to stop. Speak-up and speak-out about it at that time and leave all the behind the scenes talking out of it. That’s not needed when the issue can be resolved on the spot.

Jimbo
You are correct. Even when the finger is used, there still can be a tendency for the occasional “electric slide.”

Don
I know I have been guilty in the past of having the “Ski Jumpers,” but I thing I have evolved. As I said before, I am or used to be guilty of similar creations (on offense only). So, I can understand where some of the guys are coming from, but like I said. It’s not just one or two. It’s starting to become a little overwhelming.

BTW, I likes the pivot stick. Excellent!

The other thing I would like to see is the enforcement of the written rule. If it’s on the books enforce it (height, weight and width requirement). Don’t worry about being viewed in a certain light. You have the written rule on your side. It is the duty for all participants to read and be aware of all rules prior to the start. If they choose not to adhere to certain rules, that’s on them. But, if one chooses to not enforce certain rules, you will notice that more and more coaches will not start to take advantage of the situation and run with it.

Thanks again fellas for reading and your feed-back.

I guess will not succumb to the pressure and I will continue to stay strong.

Like I said, I am not trying to start any trouble. I am just trying to do the Super Bowl Shuffle

Peace and Love!

-Adrian-

[detroitchild]

Dude,

You just do you. Continue to lead by example, regardless of how frustrating this situation may be. There is a reason why you are thought of so highly in this hobby. The suggestions in this post where good ones. Hopefully, those guys you've eluded to will work harder at being "gentlemen" of the hobby and do the right thing.


Don

Originally Posted by BAXTER

Like I said, I am not trying to start any trouble. I am just trying to do the Super Bowl Shuffle

Peace and Love!

-Adrian-

It's bad enuf you represent the Dallas Starboys, but now you gotta steal my team's song too!?! What's up with that??? I guess I'll just have to BEAR DOWN.

It's no secret that the "Huggy Bears" seem to have come out of nowhere again, but we must ask ourselves BEFORE playing or joining a leaugue or Tourney, "What are the UNWRITTEN rules???" That would have eleviated all of the surprise. But, you will ALWAYS get those that try to squeeze through the loopholes. It's up to the "officials" to enforce it. What happens when the "officials" are the ones doing the loopholing themselves? Hmmmm....

Thankfully, they aren't allowed in the DSEFL! But even if they were, which I don't care if they are, just tell me before I build my SAINTS so I can build me some Starsky's and Hutch's to bust 'em up!!!

The pivot rule should be UNIVERSAL!!! Use a magnetic Ref or TTQB or even better the Pivot Sticks. When pivotting a ballcarrier upfield, they often do pivot closer to a trailing defender but that is what it is. The FOB should never be more than what it was. Same with defense. Often times it appears that the defender is losing a few yards from the b/c, but it is what it is. They can't gain any ground to "maintain the same gap" they musn't gain any more yards upfield than where they started. Pivot sticks, refs, mascots and TTQBs/TDQs would solve all that. I say NO FINGERS ALLOWED!!!