Man, Do I have A Dilemma...

[mozeek]

I had Brain Freeze......

Originally Posted by detroitchild

Not sure what an advanced pivot is but shouldn't a true pivot be on the axis (center) of the base, not from the front or back?

In theory that is how it should be done. But, because the bases aren't square, it doesn't hold true in application. Here's why:

If a defender was parallel to the LOS and was "spun" on his center axis to face up/downfield (perpendicular to the LOS), he would actually gain/lose yardage/distance to/from the ball carrier.

Pivot sticks or 2 Refs to box the player in on the 2 forward most edges is the fairest way to go. I am actually doing 2 Pivot Refs which I hope will make multiple pivots A LOT easier! Stay tuned.

[Coach K-LO]

good one guys....

AB, on the custom figures part - some of the customs are designed to just "look good" and there are others that are "functional" and then you have the "should not be allowed" brand of figures.

Everyone's opinion of each will differ, but the fact that latter of the 3 will be what is talked about more. You have had some of those on your teams in the past and have been "called out" for some of those poses. No big deal. I am sure at one time or anopther we all have had at least one that was "questionable".

I use mostly stock players on my teams because of all the travel and different styles I play. this makes my teams legal for most any place. But now that we (MF family as a whole) are moving more into the future with players that can be almost in any position, staying with the standards is no longer as much fun.

Pivots on the otherhand as most have already stated can be different from one coach to the other.
when you get a pivot named after you does that mean that you are doing it right or doing it wrong??

pivot box would be nice if all could use it. I would even go as far as to use that for your TTQB/TDQ so that a pass rusher DOES make it a little tough to pass when he is in your face.


this has been a good post for gaining some understanding of one aspect of the game that will forever be apart of it... and getting ALL to use the same approach is wonderful.

k-lo

Tom and K-Lo: I agree that the front edge (or closest edge to defender) of the TTQB should be placed right back where the other QB's front edge of the base was and then attempt the base from there. If you want/need more space, then turn the set off faster!!!

[BAXTER]

Grandmaster
I think you're right. Giving me some of my own medicine, Ha? Gee Thx!

JIMBO
Hmmm… Universal Rules. Very interesting concept. While I support the majority of the various rule-sets that exists today, I am strongly in favor of certain universal rules that are the SAME no matter what rule-set you play. For instance, all regular “pivots” are performed the same. All “advanced pivots” are performed the same. If someone comes up with a new way to pivot, no matter what rule-set you play under, it will be the same. Now every league does not have to allow all of the different types of pivots, but for whatever type of pivot you allow, it should be the same no matter what. Any variation of a pivot deserves it’s own name. Another example is FOB versus ABC. While some say any portion of the defender’s front portion of the base constitutes a tackle, others may say that it has to be at least within the front corners of the base to be considered a tackle. At least in my neck of the woods, the later has been termed Aggressive FOB. I think I have to give credit to my man, Charlie Murphy, on that one. Oops, I mean Dale “Running Game” Carter.

Mr. Robertson
I do understand where you are coming from with the approach you’ve suggested. The fact is that I’ve tried it already and it’s gotten old. Please don’t get me wrong. I love teaching the newbies, but the veterans are killing me softly. I also understand that for some, it’s unintentional, but I’ve concluded that other’s either just don’t care or they are trying to gain an advantage. The other thing is that, for me, it interrupts the natural ebon flow of the game. Especially when you encounter someone that becomes defensive and responds negatively. When you’re in a zone, you don’t need this type of interruption. When you are enjoying the game and messing with your opponent at the same time, it becomes annoying. I believe that once you get to certain levels of competition, rules 101 should not be an issue, especially the more common rules.

Tom
I agree with you. I have several pet peeves about this game as well. There are many inconsistencies throughout the various rule-sets that exists. Although I may like some rule-sets more than others, no rule-set I have played under is exempt from inconsistencies. NONE!!!

Jamel
Ditto. As stated before I have several pet peeves myself, but I decided to speak on these two as a test to help me with my stress levels. Also, I hope it helps the hobby as well in some way. As for altered figures, I love the defensive figures that jack you up, but it only works against certain figures. And you’re right, it’s about getting an advantage and things will continue to evolve. After all, that’s what happens in the real world and real live sports. But ********, when do you say enough is enough and enforce the rules on the books. Like I’ve already stated, if this is the new acceptable way, I WILL CONFORM. I just do not want to put forth the effort only to find out that things will change back to how things were a year or two years ago.

Sweetka
Sorry dude, I guess you are one of the people guilty of the electric slide. Since you put it out there, what do you recommend as a solution to this type of thing? What would you recommend that would serve as an incentive for the electric sliders to stop? As for placing a man where it should be and it not really making a difference, I guess that’s your experience. Now, based on my experience and observations, I would have to respectfully disagree. Besides affecting the momentum, the way I look at it is that it can make a world of difference. Also, sometime it's difficult to remember exactly where the figure was priro to the multiple pivots which ends up in a slide or move. It's just crazy to me, dude. It also makes a difference in another aspect as well. Just like one miscalculation in a pivot angle, it has the potential to cost you to give up a big play or the game. As they say in the real game of football… football is a game of inches. I guess the translation for us is that MF/EF/BB, ect… is a game of millimeters (not sure if there is a more appropriate form of measurement), but you get my point. Based on this, these minor discrepancies can and have cost big plays and games. Just think of a pivot that ends up in a slide or move that puts a player in a spot to catch that extra strong vibration which helps to propel him towards the intended target to make a tackle whereas he would have missed that tackle if it were not for the grossly exaggerated advancement in the pivot. This also works on the opposite side of the ball as well. Sometimes these things happen and we do not notice the affects. I know this can be seen as being technical, but hell, it is what it is and it’s quite clear and obvious to me the significant change in outcomes of plays and games this issue can cause.

Thanks again fellas for reading and for your responses. Sometimes a brotha just needs to vent.

Until next time....

Peace Love and Hairgrease!!!

-Adrian-

[sweetka]

Adrian,

Respectfully submitted.

The first thing you have to do is understand that you are doing this. Most people mark really close but your opponent wants to make sure that mmillimeter is addressed. I particularly joined the shootout format because if I could correct deficiencies at high speed then it should not be a problem in the future. With the help and support of Norbert, Simmie, Jimmie, Steve, and Greg I have been working towards a positive end to my situation. I specifically named these people because they understand that I am not trying to cheat to get an edge, it's just something I need to work on without all the haterade. AB, you beat somebody 35-7, 28-6, and that's all you hear about is one missed pivot, or your safety being up too close on a play, then it taints your win.

Simmie-Recognized that I didn't have nothing tacky on my quarterback. As he watched me pass he noticed that the quarterback slid when I pulled the arm back to throw. I simply did not end where I began. Moreover, my passing stats, 1 for 10 with 1 int against Greg (lost-6-0), 6 for 24 against Nobert (got lucky and won that game). I added the tape, good tape, placed the quarterback inside a box, and promptly hit 70% of my passes. The fact is that some people would have rather see me slide because it threw off my passing. Not these guys. I was also rushing because my misconception was that time was my enemy, not targeting. I consider this problem resolved because I do not pass without the approval of placement by my opponent/referee. Hatas' are always going to use this as an excuse for losing, you however have a greater responsibility in addressing it. I'll touch up on that aspect later in the post.

Jimmie, Norbert, Greg-Be in my **********! Thanks guys. Norbert noticed because I rush so much that with the magnet or dial adjustment players I would lift them before replacing them with the man then come back slightly off. What Norbert and Greg would do was when I picked my man up they would put their fingers down on the spot so if I felt I was getting a bad spot then I would leave the man down until he is replaced. Keep in mind these are my opponents and sometimes you have to trust them to make everyone comfortable. So my recommendations are:

1. Get the support of people you trust, not haters, to help you get better.
2. Do not pick anyone up without sliding someone in his place.
3. Have a universal method for everyone to turn their men. It's not just the person you accuse. Again many people do it subconscientously, including you. Just because some people convey the attitude of close enough does not necessarily mean that it is being done correctly.
4. Institude a pass box for everyone, again universal, to insure that your eyes are not deceiving you.

Who says the accuser is always correct? What's unnerving and stressful for you is that you want to be such a good sport that you are actually enabling people to do the wrong thing by not addressing it immediately. It's bad because you are building stress, which you obviously don't need, then dealing with the problem in a tense manner. That is not good for both sender and receiver from a communitictive perspective. Moreover, I never respected anyone who would wait until they got their ********** kicked then say something after the game. It sounds more like someone crying because they can't accept losing rather than someone constructively trying to address an issue.

I tell you I played a guy one time who virtually stacked his men, shot gaps, cheated on passes, and pivoted five yards over, not a yard or millimeter, five yards over. During this same game I placed the ball where they wanted me to each time. I still won big and was still accused of cheating.

So which one are you? The constructive one or the after game hata? Now AB, I know you are not the aftergame Hata', but if you do not address these issues immediately and take action to correct it, then you are part of the problem and not the solution.

This matter for some, specifically you, is a microcosm of a bigger concern for me as it relates to how you handled the matter. Specifically, the tension and stress is unwarranted and becomes inter-directed due to your procrastination in addressing issues. Buddy, friend, this is more a life issue for you because the behavior translates to other areas such as job, home, etc. This is a hobby. That holding stuff inside until the dam burst is called stress. It kills people through strokes and heart attacks. Get that stuff out right away. You owe it to yourself.

Hope this helps!

[BAXTER]

Sweetka,

Respectfully accepted.

Please do not misunderstand my point. I usually do not post because of some of the things you mentioned.

First,
I know that I am not perfect (and no one else is for that matter). Please do not get it twisted. I am speaking of the coaches that grossly exaggerate the pivot (weather intentionally or unintentionally). Something should be done to stop or significantly reduce the frequent occurrences especially when rules are on the books to deal with this stuff. Plain and simple.

Second,
It’s not just about winning or losing for me. Please understand, even for me, winning a game 35 – 7 will not necessary make me happy. This could be one of the most horrible games for me if I have to endure these type of things during a game. Also, one of my most enjoyable games was a few years ago against Tom Johnson in a play-off game. He convincingly crushed me, but I had fun during that whole entire game.

Third,
I just needed to vent. It has nothing to do with one or a series of games I’ve lost due to this stuff. It’s more of a cumulative effect of experiences and observations. Anyone that knows me well enough will tell you that I am not one to rush to judgment. So, this is why I have chosen to speak on it now. I never want to jump the gun. Please forgive me for not shooting from the hip, as they say. It’s just not me. I am trying a new approach now to communicate my feelings and thoughts. My goal is to improve on being a little more proactive and less reactive. I hope I do not alienate anyone, as a result. But, hey, whatever happens as a result will just have to happen.

Fourth,
I was completely unaware of any grossly exaggerated pivots on my behalf. This is completely new to me. Again, this is line with what I mentioned before. Things that happen during the game and not rectified at that time by the opposing coach, referee or coaches witnessing the infraction. Forget the behind the scenes stuff, resolve it at that time. I would appreciate any coach sharing with me what I am doing wrong, either during the game or immediately afterwards. I welcome this at all times. It’s not healthy for the community at-large to negatively talk about this type of stuff behind the scenes. Approach the source directly, in a respectful manner I might add, right away. Now that would be constructive criticism for you.

Lastly,
Thanks so much for the introspection you’ve provided to me of myself. I appreciates it! I needed this and I am thankful that it came from you as I probably would have been suspicious of it coming from certain others. I definitely will take what you have said about me into account. Thanks for tearing me a new azzhole. Sometimes we need that every now and then.

Honestly, I really appreciate it.


-Adrian-

[Coach K-LO]

Originally Posted by BAXTER

Things that happen during the game and not rectified at that time by the opposing coach, referee or coaches witnessing the infraction. Forget the behind the scenes stuff, resolve it at that time. I would appreciate any coach sharing with me what I am doing wrong, either during the game or immediately afterwards. I welcome this at all times. It’s not healthy for the community at-large to negatively talk about this type of stuff behind the scenes. Approach the source directly, in a respectful manner I might add, right away. Now that would be constructive criticism for you.
-Adrian-

You make a great point here AB.

We all could put in some work in this area on a regular. Sometime during the battle, you are going to get those calls that make cringe and want to go off, and sometime we do. A little more openness towards each other and further sharpening of the enforcement of the written rules we can move past this sticking point.

mabye a Poll is needed to decide which direction we should move in......

[sweetka]

Young man, just understand that my writing style can be a little too direct, however my concerns where you are concerned run way beyond this hobby. Understand that you are a rare breed in this hobby, a winner both on and off the field. Best of the best!

The information contained in my responses was based on my own personal experience and observations. I have never seen you run more than three plays in my life.

By reflecting on the scores it was showing you an exaggerated example of how things could spiral out of control. I'm not moving guys five yards, maybe one, but the whole gist of the conversation was the hindrances to moving forward and how both parties play a significant role in it's successes or failures.

I have no issue with letting people know where I stand. When you do what I do for 25 years, and know that when you leave your legacy won't, it's not very hard to put things where they should be. Unfortunately I have reached a point where fun is so much at a premium that I would rather play in China if I would have more fun.

My observations were an attempt to provide you with a looking glass perspective as an inducement to act for the betterment of all.

AB, you are my friend. My concerns probably made me a little rambly and I sincerly apologize for any misconceptions. I was really trying to be helpful to everyone as I am one of the few people in this hobby who will admit to making these mistakes.

Peace, and no offense.

[BAXTER]

After reading your last reply, I re-read your previous reply from earlier and I follow a little differently now. Sometimes the written text can be misinterpeted. Thanks for clearing things up for a brotha.

Also thanks again for that last paragraph. That was just perferct.

Eventually I will find a more constructive way to resolve certain issues. Unitl then, I just had to put this out there.

No offense taken. It's all good.

-Adrian-