Working on my french ruleset : audible questions

[the french guy]

Yes, you're right, I believe most of the rulesets availables has "holes", where more football knowledge will give logical answers that I sometimes miss.

I liked the diagrams approach in the mfca tournament "beta" ruleset, for that particular point, by the way.

But not speaking of the game mechanics itself, I believe a basic knowledge is enough to play, even at good level. It's like any wargame. You have specific units wich are allowed to do several things. You got defense units, coverage units, attack units. I believe even a beginner (total noob in football) playing a few games will discover what is a screen pass, a slant, a sweep, and how to react against it....Even if he does not know the technical name !

It remembers me a K-lo post recently...Speaking of formations, he posted pics with technical names...I saw it, and spoke with him about the theorical way to run that formation.

I discovered that I was actually using pretty much the same formation myself...but without knowing the "scientific" name of it

What I mean is that it shows that not knowing the theory would not prohibit to be "creative" and eficient during games....Even if, confronted to a skilled coach, I'll probably discover that all my formations "creations" already exists and have a real name.

It joins the question of board operation. With no specific indications, we first found logical to operate the board on offense. Then, gaining experience, we wanted to change the system...proudly wrote it in MFCA forum...and discovered that it was the regular way to do for most of experienced american players too


It's the same for a wargame. You can play, or even being competitive without being a military officer...you sse what I mean ?

It's why building my ruleset takes a lot of time. I want to create a solid ruleset, strategy only oriented (no "action" plays like ttqb and stuff like that, even if I will allow it too), but also EDUCATIONAL.

I teached the game to a friend, in about 1half hour he was ready to play. I won the game, but he was able to play, being a total beginner in american football. Since he's not a board game geek he didn't involved much, sadly. Since he 's not a board game geek. I believe in our countries, it's a point more important than being a football specialist.

Here, "football specialists", for most of them, watch games on tv and sometimes play madden. You will not take them off their seat easily to do something with more involvement. Especially because, as in cheap american comedies, board games, miniature and stuff like that has that negative "geek" image (you know, typical image of the football captain making fun of the glasses guys of the high school chess club )


I believe here in France, board game geeks (for me, nothing negative in that...in fact, exactly the opposite...using brain and creativity...I'm a geek too, collectiong vintage video games and painting minis...I'm too old to think about a reputation or whatever ) are the way to go to find a crowd for this game. IN germany, it will be diferent, because american football is a lot better represented. Etc, etc...

[the french guy]

New question : offense starting position on field Just want to confirm (or not!) the way I already play.

I believe we'll all agree on linemen position : on center field, or on hash marks on big boards, TGCGT formation, C on LOS, T and G 1 yard behind. 1/2base minimum between them, 1base width maximum between them. Can't touch each other figure.

Quarteback : behind the center (1/2-1 base lenght behind Center's base)

I already know the legal formation for LOS (7 men on O).




Now...the questions about the other ones.

WRS : how deep (refering to the LOS, yards) on the field can they be positioned on start ? Can I put them directly on side of the linemen, or should I keep a space between them ?

TE : can I put it directly on side of linemen, to form a sort of 6 linemen, or should I keep a space between the 5 linemen and the other ones ?

RBs (hb and fb) : for now, we agreed to place them between the hash marks AND/OR between the linemen line width, forming a "square" (from left side of left tackle to right side of the right tackle), behind the rear side of QB's base. Do you think it's right/legal ?

How deep (yards) can I put my Rbs refering to the LOS ?


thank !

[eflfanatic]

Dimitri,

Offensive line set up sounds good.

WRS : how deep (refering to the LOS, yards) on the field can they be positioned on start ? Can I put them directly on side of the linemen, or should I keep a space between them ?

I would keep a space between them. Technically that is what distinguishes a WR from a TE. Most rules specify 5 yards off the LOS. 1 yard is all that is required by NFL Rules.

TE : can I put it directly on side of linemen, to form a sort of 6 linemen, or should I keep a space between the 5 linemen and the other ones ?

TE can be lined up directly on side of linemen. Again, technically that is what distinquishes a TE from a WR. I think NFL RUles specify a TE lined up beside a lineman also has to maintain the 1 yard off the LOS if lined up directly on side of a lineman effectively becoming aan interior lineman.

RBs (hb and fb) : for now, we agreed to place them between the hash marks AND/OR between the linemen line width, forming a "square" (from left side of left tackle to right side of the right tackle), behind the rear side of QB's base. Do you think it's right/legal ?

Also known as the tackle box. Definetly legal.

How deep (yards) can I put my Rbs refering to the LOS ?

Most rules specify no more than 20 yards behind the LOS within the tackle box.

[Hoop27]

Hi Dimitri, I don't know if this will help you or not but the player numbers also distinguish position and you may want to add that into your rulebook. The number breakdowns are as follows..

Position(s)


QB, P, K
1-19

RB, DB
20-49

C
50-59 primary
60-79 secondary

G, T
60-79

WR
80-89 primary
10-19 secondary

TE
80-89

DL (NT/DT/DE)
60-79 primary
90-99 secondary

LB
50-59 primary
90-99 secondary

The primary/secondary thing is basically the player at that position is supposed to wear a number in the primary range. If no numbers are available in that range then they may use the secondary number. (Though I don't know if that is still the case, or if players can now use what they want be it primary or secondary)

[the french guy]

thank you both for the answer !

[the french guy]

Hi,

In my ruleset, like in a lot of wargames, there will be diferent levels of play. From basic to advanced plays (onside, multiple lateral passes, complex routes, fumbles, and even holdings).

I'm thinking about adding one optionnal offense stoppage on running game on "advanced ruleset" options, to allow more complex running routes (or even receivers routes), But...the probleme of knowing who should switch the board appears again.

So the message is for multistoppage players : how do you operate the board switch ? It seems that offense always turns the board on anf off, since he have to choose the stoppage moments, correct ?

Or do you make the stoppages on precise timing ? Does it slow the game ?


thanks

[Hoop27]

Hi Dimitri,

We're working on getting together a rules set for us up here too. Timed stoppages is one of the things we are looking at seriously.

The upside is it doesn't really matter who controls the board. but what we are thinking of will work something like this..

We are going to allow players to be stationary/on magnets (except linemen) for as long as the player wants them on. but once it comes off it stays off for the play. The only exception to that is the QB who at any stoppage can be placed on a stationary base. (representing the drop back then stay in the pocket to look for a pass)

Any player not locked up (making contact with another base) can be turned/angled. The exception will be a cornerback (or anyone in man to man coverage) who can bump and run (within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage) then turn around.

On the fourth and final stoppage offense must declare run or pass. They can of course declare before then if they want. So it would play out like this..

run for 0.5 seconds - snap of the ball. players move just a little bit.

run for 1.5 seconds - players get out in routes etc. Holes start to form in blocking.

run for 1.5 seconds - receivers make their cuts on routes. perhaps run is called here to allow the RB to make a cutback on the 4th stoppage.

run for 1.5 seconds - declare run or pass. declare the runner/receiver. If a pass then execute the pass in whatever manner you use (TTQB or passing sticks)

If using sticks you would need an additional stoppage on a completion where adjustments can be made again.

Then just let the board run until the play ends.

How long you run the board for at each stop will depend on your personal preference and how fast your board goes.

Talking about it together up here we liked the idea of being able to make adjustments to the players to make the game a bit more realistic. It will take some play testing obviously but that is what we plan on trying first. And seeing the MPFL video's on youtube I thought it made the most sense.

Multiple stoppages will certainly slow the game down a bit. But your idea of one stoppage controlled by the offense could work out ok. I would suggest that after the offense does his stoppage then the defense would have control of the board.

I know for timing for a game clock, the mid ohio guys idea of using boxes is brilliant imo.

For setting up we will have both guys set up at the same time with the defense having an extra 15 seconds or so to adapt to the offense.

The rest of the rules, will just have to be your personal preference. The toughest struggle we are having is with the kicking game. Though we are tinkering with the idea of putting a football on a straight running base for kicking and see if we can make that work somehow.

A lot of info but I thought I'd share some ideas

[the french guy]

The toughest struggle we are having is with the kicking game. Though we are tinkering with the idea of putting a football on a straight running base for kicking and see if we can make that work somehow.

I'm thinking about the same thing. I'm also thinking about experimenting stationnary kicker and rubber balls. I'll see that during week end (I don't work tommorow! )

We are going to allow players to be stationary/on magnets (except linemen)

I'm not against stationnary players, but I believe there should be a limit for them. I'm thinking about 2 guys on each side : safeties only on defense, QB and skill player (rb , te in receiving position, wr) only on offense. I have to work on that too.

The upside is it doesn't really matter who controls the board

For me, it's an important point. On ALL games we had here (not speaking of solitaire scrimmages of course), we had several issues with tackle (and sacks) refereeing, with offense on board switching during offense plays.

I 'm speaking only for 2 players gaming, without referee.

I'm not speaking of intentional cheating : but since offense coach is focused on his routes, runs, yardage, etc...he not really pays attention to the defense game. It's why having defense on switch (not watching the offense routes and runs but his own tackles) improves the balance of the game (I think it's why majority uses that system). The defense can stop the board just before or after the tackle, clearly show it to the opponent.

It's particulary true on a fast board !

run for 0.5 seconds - snap of the ball. players move just a little bit.

run for 1.5 seconds - players get out in routes etc. Holes start to form in blocking.

run for 1.5 seconds - receivers make their cuts on routes. perhaps run is called here to allow the RB to make a cutback on the 4th stoppage.

run for 1.5 seconds - declare run or pass. declare the runner/receiver. If a pass then execute the pass in whatever manner you use (TTQB or passing sticks)

Good system in theory. But on 1vs1 game without referee, you'll see that real clock use can dramatically slow down and chop the game action. Playing a 3h30 game is not for everyone (especially if, as myself, you 'll have to demonstrate the game or play with casual players).

4 stoppages also seems a bit too much for me. On the first quarter, you'll remember all that, but after 2hours of game, will you remember wich stoppage you did, etc...

I know for timing for a game clock, the mid ohio guys idea of using boxes is brilliant imo.

I 100% agree with you. For me it's a big improvement in the game (like passing sticks, presnap, etc...), wich passed almost invisible for most of us. For me, the less electronics timers you'll have to operate, the smoothest the game will be. That Mid Ohio system allows us to play without worring about a general clock, but keeps the time strategy in the game wich is very important in american football.

How long you run the board for at each stop will depend on your personal preference and how fast your board goes.

Personal preference can't be ruled. 15years of wargaming let marks in my brain

If using sticks you would need an additional stoppage on a completion where adjustments can be made again.

Depanding the passing rule you'll use, it can add multiple stoppages : first stoppage after passing and receiver declaration, to pivot free men, then run the board, then if the pass is completed or interecepted, stop again, then pivots (depanding of the ruleset), then run the board. Add the 4 stoppages you planned...and you'll see if you like that way. Perhaps you will, personnaly it's not the game I like.

In boardgames/wargames, we try to simulate the old fashion way a sport, a conflict, or whatever using several mechanics wich have to reflect (in my opinion) the action we attempt to realize.

Example, passing play in football. In real footbal, it takes a few seconds between the snap and the pass throwing. For me (again, personal opinion, I respect the guys wich prefers to decompose all the actions in gaming steps : your fun is your fun, after all), the board game has to reflect that fast decision and action, and respect a certain theorical chronology/time line.

In my current "non official" ruleset, for example, offense coach has to designate the receiver IMMEDIATLY after he switched off the board on passing play. Not 1.5s or 2seconds, but immediatly. Because, on the game action "chronology/time line", that very moment reflects the exact moment when the QB has his arm ready to throw, and he made his choice.

I explain : when the offense runs the board to try to open his receivers, "in the real life", during that time the QB is reading defense and his receivers.

When the offense coach stops the board to make his pass (ttqb or sticks, whatever), in "real life" it represents the exact moment when the QB is throwing the ball. So if you stop the board, you have to know what receiver you'll throw to.

Counter example : if you allow the offense coach to stop the board, then having 2secs or 10secs or whatever to choose his receiver, in real life, that chronological point does not exist. I don't know if my example is clear, since I'm fighting with english to speak about complex and abstract concepts.






Here's my current game sequence (basic/fast/"discovering" ruleset version) I'm working on :

(note : I prefer to speak about "player" -in french, "joueur"- refering to the "coach" in majority of us rulesets)

A- FORMATION DEPLOYEMENT

1. each player put distinctly his squad on his LOS side (Not timed action )
2. Once the offense player placed his center on right position on LOS, the formation timing is started (50seconds). Formation deployement is simultaneous for O and D.
   
3. the offense formation has to be completed before the last 10seconds call sound (speaking timer, buzz, or whatever). The offense playert has to say distinctly "SET" before that clock limit.
   
4. defense has the last 10seconds to make last adjustements on his squad. He has to say distinctly "set" before that clock limit.

B - PRESNAP AND PLAY CALLS

1. offense player turns on then off (immediatly) the board. He says distinctly and normally "ON-OFF" with no delay between the two words, making the action in the same time (explanation : the O coachs say "ON" and turns the board "on" in the same time, then he says "OFF" and turns the board "off" in the same time).
   
2. the 2 players are now allowed to pivot each free athlete (not in contact with another athlete from both teams, the rear base side is the pivot axle, not including linemen or TE if he's in 6th linemen formation)
   
3. offense player calls the play, saying distinctly "pass" or "run". If if choose running play, he has to distinctly designate the ball carrier (telling his jersey number and/or showing the athlete).

C - PLAY SEQUENCE

1. If the offense player called a running play, defense player operates the board switch, until the play stops to develop (ball carrier has been tackled, went out of bound, scored, fell, has been blocked by his own teammates, or lost yardage).
   
2. If the offense player called a passing play, offense player operates the board switch, until he choosed to stop it (opened receiver) or play stops to develop (qb sacked, run out of bound, no reciever opened in a reasonable timing delay).
   
   Concerning specifically passing play :
   • Immediatly after the offense player stopped the board, he has to distinctly designate the receiver he choosed.
     
   • Then, the passing play is resolved following the specific passing rules (ttqb, target, sticks, etc...), the defense player operating the board until the play stops (, pass incomplete, ball carrier has been tackled, went out of bound, scored, fell, has been blocked by his own teammates, or lost yardage)
     
   • If the defense player intercepts the ball, the board is now operated by the former offense player.

PENALTIES : (not finished)


You see that that basic ruleset allows quite complex gaming already, but without too many external interventions. One clock (using the memory feature of the timer) with 50seconds setting, operated ONE SINGLE TIME for each play. Plays count system (certainly mid ohio inspired) for general timing. Play calls and presnap timed by "voice calls".

My goal is to be able to forget the game mechanics and external devices, and focus on the field and athletes.

Now I'm seriously thinking abut kicking and perhaps one stoppage on running play.

[Hoop27]

I was thinking about those stationary players while watching the football game on TV and having 5 players on magnets on defense seems like the maximum.

a 4-3 short zone for example would have all 3 LB's and 2 safeties holding their positions initally.

On offense I can see where 3 players on magnets could make sense.

A shotgun split back offense where the play is a delayed handoff could see all 3 in the back field being used.

The number of stoppages seems like a lot, once we get play testing I'll know if it's too much (which it could be)

Should be fun to experiment!

[Hoop27]

I'm starting to agree with you that 4 stoppages may be too much.

I'm thinking now about trying just the first 2 stoppages. Followed by one for when the offense declares run or pass.