Weight 3.2,4.0 or unlimited, which do u prefer?

[Shabby J]

I have to go with 4.0, players perform and respond better to higher board speeds at this weight. Higher board speeds obviously mean more excitement and also one heck of a pass rush, that QB better look out! I just spent some time experimenting and starting to get my Clemson squad up to 4.0 tonight.

A couple of coaches in LA turned me onto lead tape under the player base to get weight up. I like it way better than the old putty under the base trick.

Lead tape is the way to go in my opinion.

I believe 4.0 needs to be the hobby standard, I really don't see why there is an issue and so much resistance from some coaches. If you got a really killer team decaled and based up at 3.2, then get some lead tape this weekend at a golf proshop, tennis shops carry it too and have some fun when you crank that board speed up. No one likes to wait seven seconds while your receiver tries to run 30 yards after a pass reception at 3.2 grams and your board set on Grandma speed. Get your team up to 4.0, that is figure and base TOGETHER weigh 4.0 and kick it up a notch!

Forget separate base weight and the figure weight too. I never understood that, I think it may have its roots in preventing boiked bases from being used on the sly.

Look at leagues playing at 4.0 now or very seriously entertaining the thought, look at the interest in the 4.0 college series, guys are ready to make this move.

[Michigan Joe]

There is obviously no right or wrong here. We've had this discussion and even had an online vote on this subject not too long ago. The problem with the online vote thing is that we don't always get to hear opinions. I respect those who share (and explain) their opinion and to be honest my favorite style is weighted (mainly 4.0 or at least anything 3.5 or 3.6+) because I feel that the players run the smoothest on my big boards as well as 620s. The weighted players have the ability to be much more balance when done with a low center of gravity. Its plain and simple, more weight low creates more stability and hence becomes more balanced which is a good thing when these little players are on a vibrating board. The other thing is that I like the 28mm figures (not the little Miggle guys and the hati repro blockers) and I love customizing so naturally the 2.0 figure is more restricting to me personally. I also like the figure + base total weight rule rather than seperate figure and base weight limits because I believe it opens the door for creativity. I also understand the concern people have with adding weight but I feel that tweaking is far more complex than adding weight and my experience with added weight is that it actually makes tweaking easier. Somebody want to come out with heavier bases? They would work better, I can almost guarantee it. I've said this before, I think that if we had a large scale manufacturer creating real growth in the hobby then their equipment would probably become more of the standard.
Joe

If it is strictly a matter of what I prefer then the answer is simple. Unlimited weight. It outperforms no-weight and limited weight across the board. If you've tried and like 4.0 over 3.2/3.3 then you will probably love unlimited. The biggest advantage aside from performance is you now have ZERO NEED for scales. I.E., Weighing players to pass inspection is no longer necessary. Imagine that! But like ANY method, there are down sides that need to be addressed. And they are the same issues as anything involved with a weighted format requiring limited weight.

Whenever we decide to up the weight from no-weight we make it much more difficult to get more new coaches involved. I'm not saying it doesn't detract from getting potential coaches interested-more interested or less interested. I'm saying it is yet another obstacle/hurdle for them to deal w/just to field a team. Restricted/Limited weight formats (over unlimited weight) makes it even more difficult. Another piece of equipment (scales) they have to have to assure their team's legality.

Don't get me wrong. I prefer weighted over no-weight. 4.0 is good. But the truth is it is no better than 3.6 and only slightly less performing than 5.0-5.5. The real performance in the limited weight category becomes obvious in the ranges of 7.0 minimum to 8-9 maximum. After that it is negligible until you go full blown unlimited. No matter which one chooses, I have found one thing tends to hold consistent. In an unlimited weight format there are no bad bases.

To define "Unlimited", it is using figures of a determined size (length, width, height). Figure weight is NOT important for legality. Materials are restricted to exclude any magnetic, metallic and harmful materials. Bases follow the same line of thought. Bases are weighted w/whatever non-magnetic, non-metallic or non-harmful materials that can be crammed under the shell. Weights can not be visible at field level. I.E., can not hang below the bottom of the base skirt. That is to protect the board from drag marks, etc. This method w/custom figures is my personal favorite way to play.

To make a short reply long.... What I prefer is less important than what is good for the growth of the hobby. If I want to strictly insert my opinions about my preferences and leave it at that, I can play solitaire. That way... it's my way... I can have my way every day. I find that compromising my silly preferences for something that will get many more new coaches involved is the right thing to do for the hobby. That is IF the goal is to actually grow it in meaningful numbers. From there, like anyone else and the rest of us, they can gravitate towards other formats or remain where they started. If the agenda is to get existing coaches on-board plus a few stragglers then do whatever. Doesn't matter that much as most of us say the same thing. "Just tell me what the rules are and if I can make the date(s) I'm game." If you are trying to attract a meaningful number of new coaches to play and stay, the answer is painfully obvious. 3.2/3.3 is it.

Sorry for the long post. Hopefully it is of some use to someone or at least makes them think, agree or not. My cruel master, Prince of Pain, has my number and is calling me. So it's back to the Pratt Cave.....

-Mike Pratt

[kotixblack]

I like 3.3 boiled & 4.0 non boiled bases. 4.0 non boiled bases can hang with some of the best 3.3 boiled bases.

[Coach Rip]

Well put, .....................also you have to consider the switching of a player to from a rookie base to a ttc base which would be heavier and break the weight limit, .....................that is why one weighs a figure and a bse separately.

[Shabby J]

Switching a figure from a rookie base to a TTC base, is no problem, if you have lead tape on the bottom of the players platform, run an Exacto knife across it and you can easily remve a strip of tape to get the weight down if you need to.

I don't know if it's done all that often though. In building my 4.0 college team , I pretty much have a figure base combo picked out for a specific position, I tweak it how I need it to be and then once the team is built that figure stays on that base.

Good point though.

[Coach Rip]

in the heat of competition, sometimes, .............the heavier figure " accidently" is found on the heavier base, ...... the weight limit is broken.... YES, .............cheating does happen in this hobby...............

[Rock Solid]

This is why the figure and the base are kept to separate weigh in's.
You can have a figure that is very light and a base that is very heavy or the opposite. If they get to the sidelines they can be taken apart and the heavies put together. Then you can have a base and figure that are very heavy and playing and a figure that is very light and just sits on the sidelines looking pretty.

I at first did not understand why they just don't weigh them together. Now I know they are separate playing pieces just put together and they can just aseasily come apart as they are put together.

RS

[Michigan Joe]

Coach Rip,
I'm confused, if you favor the "traditional" 3.2 with seperate weight requirements for base (1.20g) + figure (2.0g), then why did you make (and sell) a base that weighs in near 1.4g? I guess I will have $90 more of non-conforming "tournament" equipment??? Please understand I am not bringing this up to create a conflict with you, but to emphasize my point that I like to play with all there is to offer in the hobby, including equipment that is far superior to old traditional Tudor style equipment. I think your new TTC base design looks like a really nice concept, that is why I bought it.

All- In my opinion, the hobby is WAY too small to create more barriers and boundries for people to simply get together to enjoy the hobby. That is why I would be in favor of relaxing OLD standards. At this time in the hobby, I would prefer "weighted" (meaning to measure TOTAL weight and allow it to be above 3.2g, say 3.5/3.6 or something like that as a compromise), and then the hobbyist can figure out how to get to the max weight whether it be slightly above the old 2.0g figure or 1.2g base requirements). As far as competition goes, you can't tell me that a couple tenths of a gram have a bigger affect than tweaking skills (which beginners don't have), so this isn't even about the new coaches. We simply don't have all the "BEST" MF equipment being manufactured by large scale manufacturers that market the game to the masses and this leads to very little in standardization. For example, what are we to do about affordable "standard" game boards, buy an old 1970s Tudor board off of ebay? Is the 620 board really a standard now if nobody produces it anymore with the quality we get from custom gameboard makers (or even older 620 models)? Its really the hobbyists being the ones creating the innovation that we see on this board (reference all the customizing, the new TDQB/TDK, big boards, bases and dials, decals, etc.) and I for one am very open to accepting it all.

I understand why we need standards, and limitations are in place to create a fair and equal opportunity to compete, but I personally think with the current state of the hobby that its FAR more important to loosen up, be all inclusive, and "just play".

I'm JUST a hobbyist and thats my opinion.
Regards,
Joe

[broncoman]

at 3.2 all coaches and teams are equal. makes you coach a team.
at 4.0 you might be heavier than your oppent and win ,but not be a good coach.
my question is this, when do we stop going up in weigh? soon we will be going unlimited.
this weigh thing is another way of showing how we are split in this hobby.
we can't come together on playing by the same rules or style, now we can't get it right on weigh.
just my take on the matter.


BRONCOMAN