On to the next round......boards

[Pirate Rick]

i think it is not so much board size that needs to be worried about as much as the board SURFACE and MOTORS. If you play on metal with a electro-magnetic (miggle) motor, then switch to a vinyl field with rotary motors, or to fiberboard and those motors, there are going to be gr8 differences in power,speed and smoothness, so size becomes ir-relevent if your team wont run on the surface.

[roller]

I like the various surfaces and sizes. It creates homefield advantage and it makes for unique game conditions similar to lambeau in december

[GUTTMANN]

[quote=RavennaAl;103593]

So, where would you draw the line as to which board would be the smallest that should be used for league or tournament play?

This should be decided by the league and the tournament host.

[WEIRDWOLF]

I think the question needs more definition.
This was Al's question. "What do you feel should be classified as the minimal regulation size for a board?"

I first need to know, what does regulation mean and who will it apply to? Are we talking in context of the MFCAL, a MFCA Guidebook, our local leagues or the hobby in general?

Before people get the wrong idea on these questions, I think is is important to remind everyone including myself of the purpose and mission of the MFCA.
Our Mission: Assisting the miniature football hobbyist by promoting miniature football, educating the public and providing an association which recognizes and supports the diverse coaches and leagues.

The MFCA is who? It's not the BOD. The BOD is in place to carry out what the membership wants and not the other way around. In order for the BOD to do anything, we need to know what peoples feeling are on certain subjects. At best and especially in the case of board size, the most the MFCA can do is make recommendations in a guidebook as to the preferred size field. Economics, room size, portability, personal preferences regarding surface type and so forth make it impossible for the MFCA to "regulate" anything beyond our own skills competitions.

I don't believe Al's question is going to effect anyones league or what fields they use. I think he is just trying to get an answer to what would be everyones preference for minimum field size for league play? Al, correct me if I am wrong on that assumption.

If that is the question than my answer would be 2x4 (except that I don't own a 2x4 yet). However, I see nothing wrong with anything down to the size of a Miggle Rose Bowl field. 500's are good for practice and arena.

[detroitchild]

To Wolf's point, I think that the people here have various view points as to what setting specifications are all about. For some odd reason I believe that there are a few who feel like standards are being forced on us. I'm pretty sure that is not the case. My take is we are putting together documentation for new or returning hobbyist WHILE creating standards that these hobbyist can use as a starting point IF they so choose. It appears that we are also creating standards for MFCA sanctioned events (Wolf, correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points).

That being the case we should be clear when we are defining something. For instance, any documentation for new/returning hobbyist should loosely define that boards range from a Tudor 500 sized board to a full scale sized board and the sizes in between. If we are setting standards for MFCA sanctioned events then we could say that the minimum is a Tudor/Miggle 620 (or whatever) board although it may be recommended to use a bigger board for optimal play experience (that's just an example guys...don't get your undies in a bunch).

Your thoughts?

[WEIRDWOLF]

Originally Posted by detroitchild

To Wolf's point, I think that the people here have various view points as to what setting specifications are all about. For some odd reason I believe that there are a few who feel like standards are being forced on us. I'm pretty sure that is not the case. My take is we are putting together documentation for new or returning hobbyist WHILE creating standards that these hobbyist can use as a starting point IF they so choose. It appears that we are also creating standards for MFCA sanctioned events (Wolf, correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points).

Your thoughts?

That sounds right on. Thanks.

[mantaraydre]

Wolf and D-child hit it on he head. The Mfca is not trying to force anything on anyone. I feel all we are doing is setting some guidlines and structure so we look more organized to the outside word. XBOX AND PALYSTATION HAVE THERE GUIDELINES VIA COMPUTER. The mfca is trying to do the same thing,
When i see things like trash this post, this is non sense, why are we talking about this, ICONS BEATING A DEAD HORSE. It leads me to believe there are some who dont want any progress/change. I dont see where any decission will effect your life whatso ever when your going to do what you want in your home/regoin anyway. These decisions are being discussed to give the hobby a more professional outlook. We must keep advancing if we want to keep dancing.

We have come a long way and we are headed towards bigger and better things. I dont understand why when change is discussed, there are some who get crazed because the topic is even being considered. Remember when we talked about paying members and non paying members and there chatboard status. many where up in arms because of this. LOOK NOW, NO ONE EVEN THINKS ABOUT IT ANYMORE !


We are just trying to create some structure. We spent years trying to get to this point. The mfca is in a great place.





MANTARAYDRE

[RavennaAl]

Shabby, don't get mad. At some point, we, as a collective group, need to get these things sorted out. I keep seeing people say that these discussions are dividing the hobby. That's not possible, because the hobby already is divided.

For too many years, we all had been playing miniature football all by ourselves, unaware that others around the country still existed. Sure, there were a few leagues here and there, and the members of that league made their rules and stuck by them. The problem is that each league set up their own way of playing without reguard to any other league, because they didn't know about them. As the years had gone by, we all grew old and steadfast in our ways. It's just the way life is.

Then a wonderful thing happened. Miggle set up a chat site somewhere in '95 or '96. Slowly, we all found the site and realised that there were still others around the country that played the game. And that's when the problems started. Because we were all isolated for so many years, everyone had their own rules and standards for equipment. When guys wanted to play together, they found that they couldn't, because they were so different from each other.

Do we play one stop or multi-stop? Any touch tackle or front of base? Do we use TTQ, sticks or passing dice? Do we play 3.2, 3.4, 3.7, 4.0, 4.2 or unlimited? Do we include fumbles or penalties, and how do we do that? Do we use 500 boards, 620's, 2X4 or full scale? Do we allow boiled bases or not? Should we play by timed quarters or a set number of plays per quarter? Are we only going to allow Tudor/Miggle figures, or do we allow Buzzball, FF.net and customs. Can a person add weight under a base or not? How many coats of paint or clearcoat can a person put on their players? How fast do we have the boards set at? Should the boards be made of metal or fiberboard? What bases do we allow? How about frankenstein bases, in or out? Can a person add a spring to the kicker to make him more reliable? Do we allow the TDQ or TDK?

There are more that I can't recall, but these are all things that we have constantly bickered about it the past, and continue to do so today. Why? Because there are NO STANDARDS. Period! There are no official rules, no weight or figure standards, no board regulations. Nothing. Zip. Nada Zilch.

How do any of us expect to move this hobby forward, when there is so much division in it? How do we expect to get new blood coming into it when we can't agree what weight, boards or rules to introduce them to?

I want each and everyone reading this to ask themselves one question. "Have I really grown so old and steadfast in my ways that I am unwilling or unable to compromise?"

I'm as guilty as the next guy. For too many years, I kept playing the way that I always had. But I realized one day that maybe if I just tried something different, it wouldn't be so bad. I tried actually having kickoffs and running them back instead of just using dice and a chart for both. I tried using the TTQB and passing sticks instead of just using dice. I tried playing on a 2X4 instead of my trusty 620's. I incorporated fumbles and penalties into my game. I used some TTC's instead of always playing with rookie bases. I made some rule changes over the last few years and you know what? I found that I had been missing out on a lot for over 30 years, because I didn't want to change.

My biggest reason for wanting to be in the MFCA wasn't so that I could be some regulatory beast making rules and trying to make everyone play a certain way. My reason was because I want to get this hobby back into the mainstream. I want to get kids and young men interested in playing. I want to someday see this hobby be almost as popular as it was when we were all kids. I want to be able to promote it so that it doesn't die out when we all start dying out.

But we can't promote it unless we are all on the same page. We need some sort of universal rule set and equipment standards so that a new person starting off will be able to compete with anyone else.

Imagine if you will a new person comes into a league where they all play on 500 boards at a 3.2 limit, where none of the guys knew anything about tweaking bases so they are basically all stock, using the TTQB, any touch tackling, not allowed to stack, no fumbles or penalties and only one stop. The guy finds that he does pretty good playing that way, and develops fantastic skills with his TTQB. He can pass from endzone to endzone and hit his guy 99% of the time. Now this guy moves to another state. He finds a league there and tries to play a game. The only problem is that those guys all play on full scale boards with unlimited weight, multiple stops, fully tweaked to the max bases, stacking is allowed , FOB tackling, fumbles and penalties and they only use passing sticks, the TTQB isn't allowed. The guys team is clearly overmatched and his saving grace, his skill with the TTQB is nullified because they don't allow it. The guy is crushed. He says screw this, and never comes back.

Now, the same thing happens, only when he joins the first league, they show him the M-Rules way of playing. It's different from their way of playing, but over a period of time they gradually teach him about the way that their league plays. Now he moves to the other city. He finds that league and tells them that he knows the M-Rules way of playing and his former leagues way of playing. Everyone there knows the M-Rules, so they all play games together. Now, they slowly bring him up to the way that their league plays. It takes him awhile, but he learns. In the meantime, he can enjoy playing with others on a mutual level.

So, when I ask what is the smallest board that you think a league or tourney should be using, I'm just trying to get an idea of where to start a new person at so that they aren't going to be too far off from where others will play. If you say the Rose Bowl board is fine, then that's ok. If you think everyone should be using 2X4's then that's ok as well. These are your opinions, and hopefully, collectively, we can come to a compromise and say "we recommend using a board no smaller than the 'X' board as it is the best compromise between portability and playability as best described by the miniature football community." Or something like that.

Once again I'll say it. We're not trying to force anyone to play a certain way or with any weight limits. We're trying to find a mutual compromise that we can call the 'M-Rules', where new people can play with others on an equal level. Where a person used to playing one style and someone else used to playing a different style can get together and play the 'M-Rules' way. It's a rule set that no matter where you live, if someone comes up to you and says "How do you play?", everyone can say "There are many different rule sets and weight catagories, but we have one called the 'M-Rules' that is generally accepted as being a universal rule set that everyone can play with."
I'm hoping that clears the air.

[mantaraydre]

AL,

THIS IS ONE OF THE GREATEST POST IN HISTORY !!!!!!!!!!!

You hit a home run when stating, some are so set in their ways from umpteen years ago. To remotely consider what somelse is doing is unheard of.
Im willing, to try and play everyones style. currently in the

1) MPFL

2)BACK IN THE BAM

3)CBSMF.

I did not make or contribute to any of these rules but im willing to participate.
Life should be, i'll try your league and you try mine. TOGETHER, WE STILL HAVE THE MFCAL LEAGUE. This is why a universal rule set is in the works.
It's like the grandparents refusing to move to a better neighborhood because they are so used to living where they are. It reminds me of a rapper who wanted to move his grandmother to somewhere nicer and she did not want to leave the projects. He is a multi mill !!! HE EVENTUALLY CONVINCED THOUGH !!

Sometimes we must realize that others exist and offer something of value just like you. THIS IS WHERE THE UNIVERSAL PART COMES TO FRUITION !

You may not like sticks or some other form of what another has to offer. But there could be 10 coaches in your league who would love to incorporate what another entity has to offer in terms of rules and equipment. This universalization is affording coaches to explore all playable options. THIS IS WHY WE ARE DOING THIS CONSOLIDATION OF THE EF NATION.

Al, i never saw you this fired up. Glad your on the rules committee.

EFFANATIC, LETS HERE YA !!!


MANTARAYDRE

[Treks1]

Originally Posted by Shabby J

Just let people play, you guys are really aren't doing the hobby any favors.

I really hate the direction we are going in with standards, weight classes, board sizes, etc... I am just one man and my opinion does not mean jack here, but for the first time in the last few years I am on the fence about renewing my dues bases on what I have seen lately.

You guys hash it out.

I'am with you Shabby. Enough already.

Play ball.

We have enough on our hands with the weight issue. One major issue at a time. Lets get back to why we are here, painting, customizing, trading and playing.