The CBSMF and MFCA Experience...

[Hook'em Horns]

Reg., I've learned a lot from you on how to be a loving and supporting father and husband and have been educated as a young man through observation on what it takes to keep peace in the household and I fully agree that spousal support is a contributing factor that allows all of us to enjoy that which we all love to do which is fellowship in the brotherhood through miniature football.

You're also right about growing this hobby. In my opinion growth comes from expanding and presenting this hobby in venues that don't already have a strong base of miniature eflers. Tapping into the markets and using the media outlets of the areas which we have the least participation will ignite growth. Using the tournament and taking it to a city to help a coach get a league started in an area where he's all alone will generate interest. I don't see how moving it to a city that has a large following already helps that. Just my opinion. I'm not against Vegas or New York or any other major EFL city I'm pro Canton. I will continue to travel to the eric and dave open run to support them and I will travel to the BAM for their 2011 super bowl to support them as well but there is something about tradition. There is a reason why the Longhorns stayed in the BigXII passing up all that money to move to the Pac10. A lot of that had to do with tradition. Breaking up that rivalry between them and the aggies would have ruined tradition. They stayed put and in my opinion so should we but keep in mind that's just my opinion and I'm 100% cbsmf and will support its move should it decide to move.

I will travel anywhere the cbsmf travels but I make the case for unity and tradition. I wasn't a fan of keeping both events together initially however after speaking to Greg and coming up with ways to make the tournament more efficient it can be done and with lots of time left over not just for wives to do something but for husbands to do it with them.

I understand that Canton may get boring but what doesn't get boring is the tailgate. What doesn't get boring is the first real football game in 6 months. What I want all of us to get away from is believing that people have hidden agendas on why they want it in a particular place. Its not about just playing the game. Or winning and losing. As Wolf said its about what's best for the members. If we can move it and it works then let's do it but Bruce Watts said it best we must collectively come together and consider all the options and make a wise decision.

[Reginald Rutledge]

has growth come from Canton? Show me the young people who are playing the game in the Canton area.

But even if there is no growth in Canton or Vegas or LA or NY or Dallas, there are our families that may like to come and being at the Hall every year doing the same thing is no fun for them. Allow others the opportunity to receive people into their homes, their communities, and share the experience of the game.

The game can be promoted and marketed in a manner that it does excite young people to come be a part of it. I have had events where guys , young and old, heard it on the radio or on TV or through the media and dashed over to witness the game. Thus, the DFW was started. However, this takes work on the part of ALL members, not just the board. So many times, it's just one or two people doing all the work for the good of the whole.

Everyone wants to have a good time but no one wants to work. One day, as you become older and older, you will see the missed opportunities that I have seen because "we want to keep it here for tradition sake". I think that's a cop out, a way of saying "let's not expand our growth because one person has already built a trenched house and we are okay with that". I think Texas stayed in the Big12 because they wanted to be the only big dog, not because of any tradition. But that's a topic we will hit on another day.

We get an opportunity to do things at a guy house and we take this "man-cave" mentality and forget, sometimes, this game is not just about us. Some of us get divorced because we never took the time to totally include our wives or families in what we are doing and we look up and find ourselves all alone.

Yeah, some wives may have no interest in the game and will allow you to go out and do what you want. I appreciate those words of an RD, but I also know there are those wives who want to see the game grow and be a part of the game just like many of these guys. Many have invested time, money, and energy that you would never understand.

But again, I may be speaking from a guy who has an agenda, a guy who sees no tradition, and a guy who just demand a little growth in a hobby I have always loved. I have voiced my opinions and we will have to agree to disagree. I will take my family over a tradition any day or time of the year. That's why I pray to be married another 25 years.

Reg

[eflfanatic]

Even though I wasn't able to attend this year, I feel that the MFCA annual convention needs to stay in Canton and my feelings are based on building a tradition, knowing that that is where the convention will be every year and the whole Hall of Fame experience (induction ceremony, tailgate party and game).

To me that weekend is more about the fellowship, seeing old friends, meeting new ones and the beginning of football season, than the tournaments.

Keep it in Canton!!!

[sweetka]

Originally Posted by Hook'em Horns

Reg., I've learned a lot from you on how to be a loving and supporting father and husband and have been educated as a young man through observation on what it takes to keep peace in the household and I fully agree that spousal support is a contributing factor that allows all of us to enjoy that which we all love to do which is fellowship in the brotherhood through miniature football.

You're also right about growing this hobby. In my opinion growth comes from expanding and presenting this hobby in venues that don't already have a strong base of miniature eflers. Tapping into the markets and using the media outlets of the areas which we have the least participation will ignite growth. Using the tournament and taking it to a city to help a coach get a league started in an area where he's all alone will generate interest. I don't see how moving it to a city that has a large following already helps that. Just my opinion. I'm not against Vegas or New York or any other major EFL city I'm pro Canton. I will continue to travel to the eric and dave open run to support them and I will travel to the BAM for their 2011 super bowl to support them as well but there is something about tradition. There is a reason why the Longhorns stayed in the BigXII passing up all that money to move to the Pac10. A lot of that had to do with tradition. Breaking up that rivalry between them and the aggies would have ruined tradition. They stayed put and in my opinion so should we but keep in mind that's just my opinion and I'm 100% cbsmf and will support its move should it decide to move.

I will travel anywhere the cbsmf travels but I make the case for unity and tradition. I wasn't a fan of keeping both events together initially however after speaking to Greg and coming up with ways to make the tournament more efficient it can be done and with lots of time left over not just for wives to do something but for husbands to do it with them.

I understand that Canton may get boring but what doesn't get boring is the tailgate. What doesn't get boring is the first real football game in 6 months. What I want all of us to get away from is believing that people have hidden agendas on why they want it in a particular place. Its not about just playing the game. Or winning and losing. As Wolf said its about what's best for the members. If we can move it and it works then let's do it but Bruce Watts said it best we must collectively come together and consider all the options and make a wise decision.

I would definitely consider the Open Run as well because outside the Big Ten the Cali crew has been down with the CBSMF above all others in sheer numbers and participation. SWC is right there. The Cali boys are most deserving of a venue but for any venue we choose we must have some solid committments and with todays economic situation no venue is a safe bet. We had 17 entrys into the tournament this year, many more last year from the CBSMF. I know there were some circumstances that did not permit many coaches from showing this year which illustrates the need for unity. We can't have 17 coaches here one week, then 20 coaches at another venue the next. We would look really arrogant therefore contributing to our own demise.


The MFCAL Championship Game was a big draw this year with a nice crowd, oohs and aahs, and more excitement than any tournament I have seen thus far. I am not just saying this because I was in the game but it is what was conveyed to me by many coaches who watched. We basically reffed the game ourselves and it turned out pretty good. I think that is an untapped resource. Having been a part of many Miggle conventions it's no coincidence that they draw 60 participants in their tornaments.

CBSMF is a League. MFCAL is a tournament. The best of both worlds if you will. So choose carefully.

[mantaraydre]

If vegas,

What would it take to have it at an embassy suites. Tourneys do work well when it is held at the hotel. Ef loves the embassy suites. There is a suites right off the strip. Someone in the know informed me to never stay at a hotel on the strip. I always said make it an ef family vacation in which all the families can come together an plan there own events while we play football. Then we make family time together with our L-ones. A wife or girlfriend may not be enticed to come to a city where she thinks it is not much to do. But if she hears vegas or LA. Now things can be planned as if it were a regular vacation. I heard there was a tourney in the bahamas years ago. if you wanted to take it to orlando, we all know whats there. This scenario will cause more families to come and more families connect as ef familes afterwards.

If you bill it as a vacation, it may work. many will say my family does not want to share there vacation with electric football. If we knew way before hand exactly how many wives/girlfriends, how many kids, how many brothers, cousins, mothers and fathers were interested. WE CAN FLOOD A HOTEL AND GET A CRAZY RATE. Way before hand everyone can plan out there daily intinerary as families and as ef families. a scenario could be, " you guys are playing today, well all the wives are going out tonight. All the wives are taking all the kids somewhere. we will be at the casino, we will be at the beach. Speaking of the beach, Some great tourney administrators are game for doing a tourney in virginia beach. WHY NOT THE CONVENT.

bOTTOM LINE IS, IF YOU RECOMMEND A CITY. What excitement does that city offer to someone who just does not want to come just for electric football.

I told don smith long ago. if you put on a tourney, you must give the people extra. Seawallmbrawl had the dinner then brunch on the water. virginia beach was still too far away although some still went. Coaches pay close to $1000 a weekend to travel and play ef. For that amount of money many extras must be involved. A coach can stay home, play solitaire, and buy two big screen tv's with that money. This trip to canton cost me $1100 and i went alone. I felt it was worth it due to the fellowship, the tailgate and the game.
I spent money when it was just the tourney and after the weekend always had an empty feeling because the money spent to play ef i could have just stayed home and ran some plays.

So i encourage all to think long and hard, EXACTLY WHAT DO HAVE TO OFFER IF A TOURNEY CAME TO YOUR CITY. WILL IT BE WORTH THE TIME AND MONEY.

MANTARAYDRE

[Hook'em Horns]

This is good debate! I think you make some tremendous points. You talk about growth from canton! We have had tremendous growth. Here a just a few....Bruce Watts joined only because of what he experienced watching in canton the year before. Frank Johnson who retired began to play in canton last year at the tourney and played as an independent. You could argue that frank has played this style for many years and is not a new recruit but would he have returned to the hobby if he had not experienced canton the year before. Michigan Joe is a canton recruit. That's just a few. We haven't tapped into any media outlets and notified the canton community about this event which we need to do to grow however the canton venue has generated recruits.

As for you having a hidden agenda...cmon! That wasn't for you. I know your intentions for the game and I'm simply making a case for canton. I love the guys in vegas and new york and would support it either way. I do believe as you and kenny as well as my good friend Celo that if we do decide to move it the guys in cali deserve it.

After reading all of the post from everyone it seems that a rotation to 3 or 4 cities with canton in the rotation is best. There is too much of a split and seperating the cbsmf and the mfca in my opinion is just not an option.

[Reginald Rutledge]

I will say this - at least from my perspective.

It's not the Michigan Joes or the Frank Johnsons or the Bruce Wattses that I am worried about. It's the young people. I tend to think we do not go out of our way to recruit. Those guys that I mentioned are "Lifers". They are gonna be there.

You talk about you've not played in 6 months. Okay, I have not either. But if you are gonna be a true ambassador of the game, and any of us for that matter, what's wrong with dragging a board down to your local university like the University of Texas or Michigan or Ohio State and playing a game on a Friday night and recruiting a league?

What's wrong with some of us who want to sell our products to not wait on one or two people to do all the hyping and you stand back and wait on the residual customer base that you never went out and recruited?

College campuses is a fertile ground for starting up leagues but no one wants to do the work. Guys in this hobby treat it as such, just a hobby. They say, "I don't have time" and then pitch a b i t c h when no one is wanting to play in their area.

When I speak of the Canton recruits, I am not necessarily speaking of guys who are on the MFCA board reading post. I am speaking of young people who have been in Canton (residents) for 3 years or as long as the convention has been there. Can you show me two newbies from Canton?

When I grew the hobby in Arlington, I took a selfless approach. If I would have taken the attitude of be happy with 2 or 3, chances are you would never have been in the DFW, or Rookie, or RD, or any others including the young people.

There definitely are strength in numbers. I think we've bent over backwards to be of service to the MFCA. We came when other groups would not come and demanded nothing. No one should sit here and gauge "Let's see who's strong, the CBSMF or the MFCA". It works against the purpose of bringing people into the hobby.

But if you allow yourself to think the tradition of just hanging out before a game is what this should be all about, I just don't see it. God only knows I appreciate John Martin and Danny. Guys like John could definitely be someone who I would love to consider a life-long friend. Sometimes, even then, you've got to understand the saying of "Not wearing out your welcome".

The PAC10 deserves our attention. They always have. Vegas is untapped for MF. The question to me would be do guys know how to present the game in a respectable manner to reach the media and create interest. There are so many ways to show that this hobby means business! I would love to go to Canton, but not 3 times in a row!

We are the keepers of the game. You can not expect the NFL, the NCAA, or anything else to do it. It's us 40-50 something year old guys. How we promote it defines our legacy for the next generation to come.

I hate to be a lightening rod but I try to throw a little wisdom and knowledge people way and help them to understand, let's not be selfish in our thought process.

Reg

[RPD]

Reg,
I hear what your saying growth and promoting are key to growing this hobby, the question is how, where, what and when. When it comes to an ambassador of the hobby, you rank right there at he top if not THE top dog. Recruiting young people to the game is going to be real tough, I have connections to young men and women through my children, and beleive me when I say I have tried recruiting many even my own son, but they get bored with it very quick. Most young kids today have no interest in electric football, that's just a fact, yes there is an exception here and there, but on the most part they do not. Electric football isn't a game they grew up with the way we did, therefore it wasn't a part of there youth growing up. You ask why did RD find his way back to electric football, because to me it's nothing more than a game of chess(which I've played for 46 years) on an electric football field. Yes you may find a young man or woman who is intrigued by it and yes you may set the game up in a mall or at a sporting event and many people may come by and check it out, but really at the end of the day, young folks nowadays prefer the madden and ea sports games that's just a plain simple fact, that is what they grew up with. Electric football has a place, and though it may be difficult to read this or some may disagree, it's the guys 40> on the most part that play the game. Have we done well in recruiting, I think so, I think of Michigan Joe, M Robertson, Taco(roller Dave), Chris Fields, and many others in the 30-40 age group as the guys we are passing the torch to, IMO it will be very difficult to pass the torch to the 15-20 year olds, it's not something they grew up with. Now with all this being said if you think that moving the CBSMF will put a jolt in recruiting it may, you may very well be right, but at the end of the day I think you will run up against the same obstacles we run up against across the whole country, young kids today would rather sit and play a game of madden or ea sports than sit at an electric football game for 2,3 hours those are the cold hard facts IMO. So I believe this is a great debate as to where to take the CBSMF, what city, but I'm only speaking for myself here if I were to go to a miniature football event in Las Vegas, my wife would want to go and so would my kids, so my time there would be spent with my family, thus keeping balance on the home front and my time on the playing field would be zero...So Reg what I'm trying to say in a nut shell is this, the game of electric football is great to me to you and to many others, just take a poll and see what age group play this game, and I think you know what the answer will be. I also know that your fighting an uphill battle here and you will continue to do so in the future.
If you will allow me to lets take a look at an angle I feel has great untapped potential, and that is the chess clubs of today. If you want to take this game to universities for exhibition take it to the chess clubs, I believe there is an untapped recruting potential that lies within the chess clubs across the US like no other, for had it not been for the similarities of chess and EF I may not be here today, and if you'd like I will go with you and set up exhibitons at any chess club you want to go to. This my friend is where the recruiting potential lies within this great game of ours. Reg you are and have always been true to yourself in the vision you have for the game of EF, but concentrate your efforte where there is the most potential, I don't believe it is in the youth and don't think that moving the CBSMF from city to city is the answer either, but I do believe that the greatest recruitment tool lies within the chess clubs of America.
I hope I have not upset anyone with this post, but I feel the time has come to accept the fact that most young men and women DON't have an interest in the game of EF.

Oh and BTW I do feel that the CBSMF and the MFCA could co-exsist but not under the current format, we must have a format that would include all the coaches that wish to participate. How we accomplish this I don't know but I'm sure there are great ideas among the coaches across America.

RD

[Reginald Rutledge]

RD and no one is mad here.

My opinion differs from yours simply because I have seen young people gravitate to the game, even EA Sports generation players. The problem comes in doing the leg work. I have done my share of leg work, probably more than anyone living.

I have recruited people into the game from all corners of the country, both young and old. Unfortunately, if I had the attitude of "Let's face it, young people are not interested". Then, we need to understand this hobby is about to die and we are playing out the last days of this game. For me, I don't even have a problem with that. I have done my time and served my fellow EFLers. I have ran the race.

Recruiting is a method, a process, and you have to ask yourself, did you present it in the right manner? It is not a labor of hope, it is one of love. I just believe that if you say you are an ambassador and make one or two trips to a rec center and there is little interest, how can you make that blanket statement that no one in the EA Sports age is interested? If no one is, stick a fork in this hobby and begin shoveling dirt pronto.

Reg

[WEIRDWOLF]

I agree for the most part with RD's last post. Introducing the game to kids is good, but the marketing has to go toward the 30 year old and above market even if some of them never had or knew about the game as kids. They have the lifestyles that will eventually allow them to get involved as they seek other things to keep them entertained. We really need a packaged set that works right out of the box to hit marketing on a real scale that could be introduced and placed in game shops. Currently and no offense to Miggle, we don't have any company that produces a one stop whole package that works as it should. We have many individuals, who each create their own thing but we need a package that for example, has a G-Force kicker and QB, a Rollerboard, Jennings or Watts figures and a set of Proline bases or easily tweaked bases at a decent price to really up sell this hobby.