In my opinon toys vs game

[Kansas Bill]

Originally Posted by jimmie

In your opinon!!you decision to close the post was just based on your on thoughts not those who were discussing it!! It was debate!!no name calling insults etc.It becomes flat out censorship!! my friend but it is what it is!! Jim

Hey jimmie... Rest assured that Wolf received numerous phone calls complaining about the threads/posts that preceded your thread.. He doesn't get to just pop online to the site, make his comments, and go on about his day.. he may have just seen the new thread as just a continuation of one he had to shut down...

Cuz.. I know for a fact that he gets constant phone calls complaining about this or that..

I am as guilty as anyone about calling him due to this or that post.. And what's worse it's always me apologizing to Wolf because I couldn't just.. let it go. I've promised him, (more than once), that I'm gonna do just that, I'm gonna be the adult, etc etc.. Cuz to be honest... Nothing that is posted on here has cost me a split second of sleep at night.. lol Bottom line is I'm just freaking thrilled to death that there are people out there that love playing electric football as much as I have for decades. And I'm more than happy there are people out there constantly trying to come up with new ways and new products all designed to make our EF experience more fun..

Now I just have to go back and read then re-read my post.. Just to make sure I haven't made a subtle and/or not so subtle jab at anyone or anything..:o

Is your place of business a "national" chain or an independent place? (Ya know where this is leading.. ) I'm always trying to think of new ways to peddle the Tornado Alley bases.. lol

I wish we had someone affiliated with a shop here in KC that was passionate about EF.. It'd be great to see as many posters from KC and the immediate area on this board as we see from Detroit, Dallas, and the DC area.

Take Care Man!
If ya would, give us some feedback, (if you've gotten any), from your customers on the new EF game that just got on the market this Christmas.

[Reginald Rutledge]

In the past, when guys have "attacked me", on occasions, I've just let it go. I know it goes with the territory. But I am not sure my response back to a coach using my name or my response and those afterwards is what fueled everything, I am not sure. But I do know one thing, I am tired of just letting things slide, because I own a miniature football company.

I've been slammed so many times, I think I am Bam Bam's club on the Flintsones! Yeah, I could have let it go because that's what I do but I just told guys how I saw this toy, a critical eye appeared.

I definitely can tone things down from my perspective with regards to responding to any post, but don't sling my name through the mud over one term I used.

If you want to critique me and the things I say, critique it over the entire body of work. Don't take one word and try to create a firestorm over it. I felt like this was one of those RARE instances, I had to respond (with venom) because my "happy go lucky kind nature" makes people think they can run over you. Say what they want. That's just how I felt on that particular day.

No doubt, even in a world of freedom of speech, we have to respect guys efforts in creating chatboards to come and discuss miniature football. One of my New Year's resolutions was never to look at post that doesn't concern me or things that I was not interested in. I just felt that I was drawn into this because my name was mentioned publicly. I had issues with that.

If I offended anyone, I apologize. It was not my intention to be a lightning rod as it was also not my intention to be critiqued so harshly over a term of endearment to me, which is "toy".

Reginald Rutledge

Originally Posted by beenutt

Welcome to this forum on miniature football otherwise known as electric football! This board has been created to allow users to post their photos and tips that will undoubtedly help our favorite hobby to grow and flourish! This board is not intended to rival any other boards on this subject but is designed to allow users a forum to display their talents and creations. This board is not affiliated with any company and is not designed to promote a particular product. It has been created to promote the hobby in general. In short, I encourage everyone to use this board freely and remember the overall objective is to grow this hobby and enjoy it to the fullest.

Another unique feature of this board is that it will be based on Christian values and I will be posting Bible verses and words of encouragement. Given the nature of this board, please refrain from defaming others and absolutely no profanity. I would like for kids to be able to read the posts on this board without having to censure them first!

Thank you very much for supporting this board!

Beenutt

JJ, you had to pull the censorship card! READ the very first post (above) by the founder of the Message Board. This is not our chatboard, so we have to follow the rules. Nor is this a "freedom of speech" forum. flg$

I'll give YOU the benefit of the doubt, that YOU think that this ONE lonely post got locked up, but I gotta tell ya there are 99 others with the same "flavor" that didn't. And since this was going in that same direction I personally asked Wolf to intervene. BECAUSE I'M TIRED OF CATS (I'm guilty myself) JUMPING INTO POSTS THAT HAVE NOTHING, NADA, ZIP, ZERO, ZILCH TO DO WITH THEM!!!

The post in question was about "improving the TTQB." IT HAD NOTHING, NADA, ZIP, ZERO, ZILCH TO DO WITH ..... But it went down an alley that most of us are tired of going down. I know you know what I mean. Be cool and lay off the "c" word. This ain't Miggle by a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG stretch.

ADVICE FOR ALL OF US

Keep to the topic and say what you gotta say in a CHRISTIAN manner. If you can't or won't say it in Church or in front of your Pastor, Priest, Big Momma, Nana or my 16-month-old baby girl, then don't say it here!

I read something where a little boy asked his Mom, "Why do people cuss and swear and say bad things?" She said, "Because they lack the vocabulary to say things the way they're supposed to be said." Break out the dictionary and thesaurus and learn how to get your point across without the bad talk. After all...

IT'S JUST A TOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Previous opening line was too harsh. Sorry, JJ.

[rjackson]

...There is only a couple of folks in this community that cause a bunch of friction. This has to be noticed by the high powers of this board. It is constant criticism by these individuals that fuel the fire everytime they open their mouths. I for one have said it that I will confront the peasants in person and will leave it there.

I think that is disrespectful to put someone else's name in a post and try to drag them trough the mud. In saying that I have come to ignore these individuals until our day of reckoning. I know uncle Reg has told me to stand down but I can't, it is just the lil hoodster in me that has to get at them one on one.

I am CHRISTIAN folk but I have always hated the ones that jaw-jacked on the sideline and the ones that rah-rahed for them. Me myself I roll solo wit all my words of ebonics and ignorance, but never once dragging folks into a post like I could so easily do now. With that said you know who you are and what you stand for. Go to itunes and download the song, "We're Back", off the DMX album Grand Champ!!! Listen to it right at the end and DMX will tell you what you are!!!! Or better yet go to iTunes and listen to number 13 on the 2001 album from Dre. You don't even have to listen to it, just look at the title of the song!!!!!!

...another post about to go sour...the disease is already running its course...

what I predict is that this thread will be pushed as absoultely close to the line as possible. The fear of suspension from the board and/or having a thread closed is just enough to keep people honest but after the way things have been going, this post is also headed for the gutter.

WEIRDWOLF. Keep doing what you have to do to keep people from going over the line, making a fool of themselves, and making a mockery out of our hobby and our chat board. We must understand that there are some people in the world who simply thrive on confusion and due to their idiots mentality have no respect for the written word whatsoever.

EF is on life support as it stands today and it is those creative individuals providing the CPR that are mostly being attacked by others or doing the attacking. A strange phenomena indeed.

Maybe all of this is about something easier to analyze like male pride, egoism, and the right to influence what others think and do. Thus you have leaders, followers, cronies, and bystanders. The bystanders should have the benefit of having the garbage filtered out so they don't have to read it.

If this continues I'm leaving for good.

[jimmie]

I disagree with the post being taken down that it!! Is gone from me just not liking the censorship to being bad and evil!We can agree and disagree with out prejudice!!!Its not personal on no one just how I feel but we should let it go!! Thanks though for the topic or disscussing with me!! Jim Jackson

[O-schemer]

Hey guys, I'm glad this post hasn't been pulled because I just wanted to say something. First of all, everything that's been said so far, Let It Go. Seriously let's start this year off right.

Secondly, you don't have to go very far(Miggle website)to see what happens after all the backbiting starts.

I know that compared to years ago, there are a lot of us now. If you think about it though, we are a small group. In groups like ours, we have to be careful not to become too inwardly focused. It's important to become more outreach focused. This keeps the hobby refreshing and moving forward. It may sound silly, but not all in-house discussions are good for the hobby.

Use your post to draw in newbies, to teach, and to motivate others. If you don't think that will happen, don't post it. Also, don't post on topics that you feel are not growing the hobby. It's your choice. Reach out. Grow your leagues. Grow the hobby. Drop the arguments, they are not motivating anyone. I for one and looking forward to 2008 MFL. Also, if you are thinking of leaving, please don't. We need your positive vibes!

[Coach_J]

Greetings gentleman. To begin with I hope that all of you and your families had a nice Christmas and that you all have a safe, healthy, and prosperous 2008.

This is the first time that I have ever responded to such a post so here is my take on the question. First of all this is simply a hobby and we need not get carried away. There are really much more things in life to be concerned with. In my eyes it is really a combination of both. It can be seen as a toy that when played and tweaked can become a game. I could be wrong but many, if not most, of us got our first boardgame as children for Christmas. We saw it as a toy and tweaked it to be like the games that we saw on Saturday and Sunday. At least that is what I did and still do. I am nothing but a big kid and like to have FUN when playing. More so this toy/game has allowed me to have FUN, FELLOWSHIP, and meet people who more than likely will be FRIENDS for life. As we all know the Raiders have a saying and it is simply "JUST WIN BABY". Whatever definition people in the hobby decide on is really not important. What I feel is most important is simply "JUST PLAY BABY".

Coach J

[RavennaAl]

Ok, I wasn't going to say anything at all about all of this, but instead I thought I'd give my impression of everything. Believe it or not, I actually think I understand where AB is coming from. Here goes....

There are a few different deffinitions of what a toy is. Most relate toys to a devise that is used for a childs amusment. This is where the trouble starts. There are a few guys who don't want MF being equated to something that is intended for children. Rather, they want it being associated with adults instead. Yes, technically, it is a toy. Pure and simple. So are trains, playing cards and dice. If you give a child any of these, then they would play with them and amuse themselves. Therefore, they are toys.

But wait a moment, there are thousands guys, many well over 40, 50 or 60 years old, that collect trains. They build elaborate sets in their basements, complete with tunnels, roads, bridges etc. Model Railroading has a very large following. How do you think they feel about it? I'm sure they would tell you that it is a hobby, and would probably feel offended if you told them that they are playing with toys. The same would more than likely hold true for Poker players or couple playing Bridge. Next time you go to a casino, see how the people there react when you tell them that they are playing with toys.

Personally, I don't like it when people refer to MF as toys. I think the game, or hobby, whichever you prefer, has elevated itself above that level. Somewhere, in some point in time, games or objects become something more than just toys. They become a hobby. Cards, trains, pool, air hockey, Warhammer, RC cars and planes..... These are all just toys, but nobody refers to them as such. They have evolved and grown into something more than that. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a word to describe it.

I think this is what AB was trying to convey, that MF has evolved into something that is on a higher level than what it was 30 years ago, (I know his system of playing certainly is) and I think he is right. Look at what is out there, the custom boards, the detail of the players, stadiums, etc. These are not intended for children, rather they are for adults who have an appreciation for something that is more sophisticated than a simple toy. What we need is a new word, something that would describe an object that may have started out as a toy, but has grown into something that adults use more than children. Sort of like model railroading has.

** This is just my opinion. I know my opinion doesn't amount to a hill of beans in this wacked out world, though I wish it would. Bean prices are about to jump and a hill of them would amount to a small fortune of which I could use every bit of.**

[Reginald Rutledge]

The great thing about this argument is that everybody has an opinion. I have never said otherwise. I do take offense when someone tells me what I think I should think. Or what I should consider a toy. It's my opinion.

Ravenna Al, I have much love and respect for you and your opinion. I may get offended if someone calls it a toy. I don't know. I do respect what you have to say when you put it in that way.

To me, it is a toy. To me it's a game. And then it's a hobby. Heck, I think a corvette is a toy. It's a diversion too. So to me, anything that takes my mind off the seriousness of life is classified as a toy. But that's just my definition of toy. I think school and education has facets of being toys. It's challenging. It's a diversion. It takes my mind off stressful things. But that's my definition.

What I have issues with is when anybody tries to railroad me into thinking something other than what I may want to think. I make one comment on a word and how I defined it. That's all I did. I never asked anyone else to define it in that way. That's just how I view MF.

Even when I go out and give demonstrations, I don't mind much if people consider it as a toy. Their views change when I show them how I can make the players do what I want them to. When I can show them actual plays being ran. When I can show them I can kick from 60 yards out. When the magic of the stadium is thrust upon them. When I show them how intense we get in playing this game. Then, the respect level for the game goes up ten-fold.

Those things lend credibility to what we do and make it very easy to recruit locally and nationally. Guys know I am crazy! They know I love to have fun! They know I live in Never Neverland. And some come here just to be a part of that fantasy world. Whether they think it is a toy or not, that's their opinion. All I provide them with is an avenue to be a kid again in my land of toys.

Reg