Do you work on plays or players???

[RavennaAl]

So, what you guys are saying is that not only do I need to tweak my bases, but I actualy have to have formations and plays worked out as well. And not only that, with all that hard work done, I might actually win a game for a change, but there still is no guarantee that I'll win. I don't know, I think I'll stay with my game plan of looking at my teams from time to time and getting bounced out in the first round. It's a lot less hassle and the results would probably be the same... :rolleyes: :p

[MplsTom]

Well Al...the rule doesn't apply to guys in clown suits or furry fuzzy football fanatics. Those guys are just there for the ambience!

[Shabby J]

Again, here is my take for what it's worth. The athlete must perform and he must be consistent, period. You have to spend time tweaking so you know who does what and who goes where.

I am shocked that so many people put little emphasis on tweaking. I am not talking about tweaking to be the strongest, fastest, etc.. but you have to have some strength, speed and consistency before you can start executing plays with any effectiveness.

The tweak comes before the play, that's how I see it. There can be no other way.

Again, just my point of view.

[FrustratedFinFan]

Don't let them fool you Shabby. They say it's ALL about coaching, but you can bet your butt that their players are tweaked for strength and speed too! Have them match up their strongest man on man versus some of yours....and run some speed contests as well. You will quickly find that the winners also have some of the best athletes. Not to denigrate their coaching skills at all, but don't let them think that their athletes aren't special too. If some folks can do it with untweaked bases and players, maybe they should show up to the tournaments with nothing more than an unopened pack of Miggle players and bases? They do that at the Miggle tourney, but not at any of the other tournaments. Wonder why? Yep....some folks can tweak quickly and easily....that's swell. It doesn't mean they aren't spending time tweaking...they are just spending less time than others . You can be the best coach in the world, but if your players suck....you ain't winning too many games. I think that applies in EF as well.

I build my team first. I select players and tweak bases to match the player's duties. I then design some plays utilizing what I perceive to be my strengths. However, it doesn't take long in a game to realize you have to make adjustments. I do the best I can to adjust to my opponent. After the game, I keep in mind what my weaknesses were and I try to address those...both through tweaking....and through some thought to plays that will eliminate or minimize my weaknesses, as well as take advantage of my strengths. Sometimes I realize I need some new recruits....both bases and players.....and then it is time to play mad scientist again and create a monster!

I guess the best way to explain MY reasoning is to use an example of Pee Wee Basketball. I coached at my Community Center in Germany. My favorite group were my 6yr olds. I remember showing up at our first game, and just like we were in a Disney movie of the lil kids vs. the GIANTS (Little Giants comes to mind) my kids were like Tatoo (Fantasy Island) vs. Kareem Abdul-Jabaar!!! I had to trust my "planning" and "execution."

Suffice it to say, while EVERY SINGLE TEAM WE PLAYED played "kill the carrier", my kids kept their spacing, passed to each other and shot better than everyone else. After EVERY SINGLE GAME, the Coach AND PARENTS would ask what I did.

#1: I literally cut up EVERY #23 jersey, at every age group!!! I told everyone they can "be like Mike" all they wanted when they played their dads, but they couldn't "be like Mike" on my teams. I didn't want Superstars, I wanted TEAM players.

#2: I told them to give me 30 minutes of hard work doing drills only, then I'd give them 10 minutes of free time and the last 5 minutes "everybody against the Coach!"

My point is, NOT ONE TEAM executed plays that whole season. I had 5!!! They had teams full of 6yr old supersnots, faster and taller than my kids, but they didn't know the first thing about basketball other than dribble-dribble-dribble and shoot; and SWARM my ball handlers. Pathetic, even for kids!

My kids ran circles around everyone, even when some Coach decided to raise the goal from 8ft to 10ft because my kids were too good!?! Same crap we do in MF!?! Can't beat it, ban it!!! <<<---Loose cannon comments.

Short answer is, I'll take a well, executed plan with the Budweiser horses than no plan with Arabians!!!

Originally Posted by FrustratedFinFan

Don't let them fool you Shabby. They say it's ALL about coaching, but you can bet your butt that their players are tweaked for strength and speed too! Have them match up their strongest man on man versus some of yours....and run some speed contests as well. You will quickly find that the winners also have some of the best athletes. Not to denigrate their coaching skills at all, but don't let them think that their athletes aren't special too. If some folks can do it with untweaked bases and players, maybe they should show up to the tournaments with nothing more than an unopened pack of Miggle players and bases? They do that at the Miggle tourney, but not at any of the other tournaments. Wonder why? Yep....some folks can tweak quickly and easily....that's swell. It doesn't mean they aren't spending time tweaking...they are just spending less time than others . You can be the best coach in the world, but if your players suck....you ain't winning too many games. I think that applies in EF as well.

I build my team first. I select players and tweak bases to match the player's duties. I then design some plays utilizing what I perceive to be my strengths. However, it doesn't take long in a game to realize you have to make adjustments. I do the best I can to adjust to my opponent. After the game, I keep in mind what my weaknesses were and I try to address those...both through tweaking....and through some thought to plays that will eliminate or minimize my weaknesses, as well as take advantage of my strengths. Sometimes I realize I need some new recruits....both bases and players.....and then it is time to play mad scientist again and create a monster!

B-I-N-G-O, FFF!!!

Originally Posted by MplsTom

My observation is a general one...as long as I have strong "enough" bases and fast "enough" bases, I'll take consistency any day.

My point here is just to challenge yourself...when you're about to spend time tweaking for that perfect base...take a step back and look at the bases you have. Can you come up with plays that will work 8 out of 10 times for 5+ yards against the formation your opponent usually uses? Can you set up your defense and then look at all the ways to attack it?

I just am saying that I see a trend toward "boom and zoom" and the past weekend in DC just helped to reaffirm my thoughts that it isn't usually the strongest or fastest that brings home the hardware.

My apologies for editing your response in quote. I did it to emphasize the huge points that you made..... Mainly, the first line of your quote above. If I am watching a top notch coach develop a team and he says "that's good enough" I know to pack a lunch if I have to face him/her. For what it's worth, that's over 10 years of tourney trail experience, just in recent history alone, that I'm speaking from. That coach will not have the strongest or the fastest team in the mix. But I assure you they will often beat many teams who are obviously stronger and/or faster. Why? Because they have learned to make the most out of what some perceive as less. Learning to coach a team of consistent players who work well together is usually more rewarding (pays bigger dividends) than coaching a lot of very strong, fast players who do not work as well together. Learning how to overcome getting pushed around while still moving the chains on the ground will make you a better coach down the road. If you can learn to be successful with "less than" then being successful with personnel upgrades is going to be easy.... Almost like stealing.

Shabby J - I don't think anyone is or ever will belittle how important tweaking is. As The Tweak Freak I will defend you and it to the bitter end. But it is what it is. That being it is a very important PART of the puzzle to solve. Not the ONLY or most important part on its own. It's obvious that even the best coaches among us will have severe problems coaching a lot of crap players. What I am saying is, using that same crap team, those same coaches will be more successful than those who do not coach as well.

In short, two things.... You can't coach no talent very well. And tweaking is one of the legs that holds up the table. If it were the be all, end all for success... (1) The best tweakers among us would rarely ever lose when their fine china hit the field. (2) I've rarely witnessed the strongest or the fastest team win a championship in the bigger venues. And when they do it is almost always by a coach who coulda woulda done it with or without... they've won in the past when they were not the fastest, strongest team amongst the field.

Things to consider are, most of us already had a play book in mind somewhere along the line before we started utilizing the pliers. Most of us are already doing, to some degree or another, what I described.... Even if we don't realize it or perceive it that way. Lastly, and probably most important, learning to use "lesser talent" (not no talent) forces you to do things you would overlook if you just bullied or swept your way down the field. You are forced to be creative to overcome your team's "deficits." Short term, you WILL take some lumps. Long term, you WILL become a more well-rounded and knowledgeable coach. Later, when you add a few or more well fit superstars to that team, you will find it easier to execute what you have learned.

I have a million and one analogies that support and help explain this. But this post is beyond long enough already. So I'll spare y'all the additional eye strain for now.

-Mike Pratt

[Kansas Bill]

Originally Posted by MplsTom

My observation is a general one...as long as I have strong "enough" bases and fast "enough" bases, I'll take consistency any day.

Amen to that..

[WEIRDWOLF]

I don't have too much to add because I suck at coaching and tweaking but this is a GREAT thread! Very educational and one of the best ones to date! Keep the discussions going.

[andre kc]

I to do the play book first, that way I know what to look for or what to tweak for, for me the play book is like a goal to how I'm going to fill the positions on my team, but there are times I do add new plays when I find new talent