Why wouldn't you want to play at 4.0???

[jeff]

The only reason I could think of not to play at 4.0 , is that most people would have to create another team.

DRE mentioned that you can just add weight to the player base...and use figs from your current team.

That seems to make sense...

I am curious about this...

REG if you read this - what are your thoughts on the effectiveness of this approach as compared to a heavier figure on a non-weighted base?

[Reginald Rutledge]

rely on 20 plus years of studying engineering and science in the field of weight and weight distribution and Mantaraydre is right (in my opinion).

It makes no difference how you get to 4.0 grams, it's still 4.0 grams! To me, the base plus the player is an athlete and whether the base weighs 3.2 grams and the player weighs 0.8 grams, he would in effect, perform the same task if he weighed 2.0 grams and the base weighed 2.0 grams.

I have not done a great deal of scientific experiments on this type of material but I have done similar testing when I worked as an aerospace engineer in the field of ballistics and fatigue/stress. I applied those principles from my craft to miniature football and there are great similarities in the theories.

But I do think Andre is right on. We simply add weight to the bottom of the base to bring it up to 4.0 grams and it has no negative effect on the performance. More often than not, the results are positive.

Reg

[detroitchild]

I like Dre's idea. I might add that does every player have to weight 4.0? My guess is that's the maximum limit. If you have players that you think perform better at a lesser weight (i.e. RB or WR) then leave him be! Just raise the weight of the players (my guess is the O and D lines, LB's) that you think would make you more competitive.

In fact, I like the idea someone had of different weight for different positions. I don't think most are quite ready for that yet.

[mantaraydre]

FIRST OF ALL, it's a pain in the you know what making 50 million teams. JUST CHANGE THE BASES AND YOU WILL HAVE A TEAM FOR ANY TOURNEY/LEAGUE.
Develop your player and entire team at 3.2 to your liking. Like i said before mark each base with the players name and/or # and that it's, 3.2. Take all of the bases off and that's your 3.2 team. If you want, get a couple of plastic ice tray's and lye the bases in them upside down and put them in a draw.



take your same exact team and develop a team again as if it were 3.2 (dont weigh anything yet) once that team performs to your liking. now add the weight. Put fig and base together on scale and it may say 2.8 or 3.1 whatever. leave the figure and base on the scale and grab the roll of golf tape and cut a piece and lye it on the scale with the figure and base. it may bump it up to 3.7, then you know to cut a much smaller piece and lye that down on the scale until you get it right at 4.0. you will have to fold the golf tape and just glue and place under the bottom. mark player's name and/or # and 4.0. do for all players and you have two teams with the same exact fig's.


I don't care if my receivers are 4.0 because there job is to get open and not be strong men. The running BACKS i would make 4.0 to offest the linebackers during a running play.

i tried this method on a wellington fig that was 2.7 and he ran down field 80 yds. I bumped up the same fig to 4.0 and he ran down field 85 yds.

On ttc bases the room is limited on the bottom but there are some nook's and crannies for small pieces.Also, just cut a strip of golf tape and put it between the players platform underneath and the top of the ttc base. When you slide the player on the base you dont notice the golf tape if it is cut to size.


I PERSONALLY DON'T SEE WHY YOU CAN'T USE THE SAME PLAYERS AND JUST CHANGE THE BASES. THIS WAY, YOU ARE PREPARED FOR ANY STYLE/WEIGHT CLASS THROWN AT YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STORE THOSE BASES IN A ICE TRAY LYING UPSIDE DOWN SO THE PRONGS GET A REST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MANTARAYDRE

i have found that bases perform much better & run much truer with weight,if every figure is 4.0 whats the defferance if they are all 3.5 or 3.0,every figure would still be even,i personaly think 4.0 should be the standard,whats the BIG deal.

[Michigan Joe]

I wouldn't recommend that anyone purposely weight the figures, weight the bases instead. Lower weight is usually better anyways for stability (higher moment of inertia). Also, don't assume that each player needs to be 4.0. If you have a slippery reciever in a 3.2 league then he'll still be slippery when playing against 4.0 figure (just do a quick test to verify it). I've actually noticed weight is great for speed more than power since the heavier weight adds stability to the stiffer (and usually more vertical) fast prongs. Power is created by thin rear prongs that drag which can be achieved thru tweaking. Weight simply increases the friction so of course it can help strength too but tweaking is the most significant factor. My other experience is that a tweaked base for a 3.2 figure can at times have prongs that are too weak to benefit from added weight (although this is rare). Therefore it can be benefitial to have the weight added while tweaking.

[Shabby J]

It can be difficult to add weight to a base depending on the style of base. It's easy to add lead tape to the underside of the players platform. I have posted step by step photos on this. You can take a bone stock squad weight them up to 4.0 with lead tape under the player platform and you are set. It then peels off with your fingernail when done, piece of cake no brainer.

Now with that said, I spent a fair amount of time taking 67 bigmen up to 4.0 and tweaking them all. I then learned that the added weight means nothing if you can tweak for strength. I took my strongest man weighted up to 4.0 and tweaked that way, I then took stock 67 bigmen with no weight added and was able to tweak an entire line stronger then the 4.0 weighted player I was using as a measure.

I agree with Michigan Joe, in that weight may help a little with strength, but most of the strength will come directly from the tweak. I also agree that if you are going to use a weight adder, then weigh the athlete (base+figure) up and then start tweaking.

Don't fall victim to the thought that added weight helps make a stronger base. I also thought they ran better and were smoother until Vince Peatros showed me the light. I now have a team that is stronger and faster than it was before now with no weight added.

Be careful what you put into "4.0" you may find that staying stock is more beneficial if you can tweak them up right. I am finding that 4.0 standard is more to include all figure and base combos than for outright performance.

I am fully aware I might step right in the heaping pile on this issue. But I ain't skeeerd. I know what I know and the rest is simply my opinion(s). RJ requested "adult only" replies. And I will insist on respecting his request.

1) I have said (and preached) from day one (for many years/moons) that we (the hobby collectively) have room for adding weight, but not so much adding any overall size. Weight helps to settle a player down, makes the figure on top far less of a (bad) balance issue - something all too common in the hobby (bad figure weight distribution). Only a very few stock figures have decent weight distribution. The rest require compromising the base performance by first tweaking out the ill-balanced figure. And that before tweaking performance in.

There really is no maximum weight limit, per say. It is only restricted by the field construction. I.E., field thickness, motor strength, and how well they work in unison.

2) There is absolutely nothing inherently wrong w/playing at 4.0. Or any other specific weight for that matter. To me, it's just another equipment spec to play by. Though, to be perfectly honest, 4.0 as a limit does not interest me in the least.

3) 4.0 is a "tweener" weight limit. Yes, it's heavier than 2.0+1.2/1.3=3.2/3.3. But not heavy enough to show off the beauty of heavier weighted play. It's just enough to add some oomph and settle the players down (from ill-balanced figures). But there are much better choices, performance wise, than 4.0.

However, if 4.0 rocks your world, by all means, play that way. Or any other way or weight for that matter. If it's a fun format for you and you enjoy the company, then it's all good.

4) 7-8+/- grams, base weight (no figure applied) is a far better weight for performance. That includes speed, strength and player stability. This weight class would feature 8.5 to 10 gram players, in general (after adding the figure to the base). Don't take my word for it. Try it yourself. You'll see. I have. And since I know what I know, 4.0 doesn't interest or excite me enough to bother with it. Down side, for some, is piling on swing weight tape ain't gonna cut it for this weight class.

5) After 7-8 gram bases, you really need to go full blown unlimited weight to benefit. Whatever you can "hide" under the shell that is non-destructive (to the coaches or the board, should if fall out) is fair game. Figure weight can be legislated or unrestricted. It's up to the format. Both work fine. This format allows you the broadest options for truly building a team to your liking. that's because you're not strapped w/weight limits. Want a team of Fridge players, including your backfield, do it. Want a lighter, faster OL like the Broncos had, do it. Want a blend of speed and strength (highly recommended), do it. No scales (weigh-ins) required.

Again, FWIW, just some knowledge shared and a few opinions based on that knowledge. Hopefully, someone may find it slightly useful.

-Mike Pratt

this is very true,when my friends & i played in the 70s & 80s we did not have a weight limit,but i image we played around 7-8 grams some figs weight was far less(wr,rb,cb,s)so on but since i have returned to the hobby 4.0 is the tabu,to me this is still very light,heavier does not mean stronger or faster but the weight takes the shock of the board vibration out of the base giving it a smoother run,this is what good tweakers are able to do without using weight,so why is there a limit?i'v only been back for 7 months,whats realy going on?whos afraid,& why?