dice and such

[Geno H]

Originally Posted by artlax

The coaches in REAL football don't get to do that - hit a switch and stop the play to adjust.

That is why they spend hours COACHING the players to achieve certain results once the ball is snapped. (we train/tweak/develop plays and sets)

Artlax,
Many, many, many coaches see it the way you do.


Geno H

[FrankB]

Im new here and feel like i should read, and not really post however, remembering this game from the late 60's, and 70's, it was ok to play but the lack of control made it somewhat unrealistic. Like today's video sports games where as some are arcade oriented, and some are sim oriented, i guess it depends on what you prefer. I recently started playing this game again, this time using most of the rules from the MPFL system. I have made minor modifications, but most of the system is Mr. Burgesses. I can see both sides of the opinions here however, even though in real life coaches can't stop the play and make adjustments, you never see players running in the opposite direction of where the ball is, nor do they decide to just run out of bounds 40 yds from where the play is. This game deals with figures, and bases, and neither one of these have a thinking apparatus. So i see the timed stoppages as a nice way to interject the thought process of this game. Reaction is a huge part of football, and without stopping the game at certain points, its kind of hard to achieve some sort of realism. That being said i believe it still comes down to whatever style of play makes you happy, and just enjoy the game.

[RavennaAl]

I use dice for passing, penalties and fumbles. I don't have any problems relating the chance of a number coming up with the chance of a fumble occuring or penalty or an incomplete pass.

Let's face facts. The players on the field are plastic. They can't hold, clip, grab a facemask, go in motion illegally etc. About all they can do for a penalty is line up offsides, or jump offsides if somebody bumps the board by mistake.

As far as fumbles go, yeah, you could place the ball into a running backs hands and see if it falls out. But then you would spend a lot of time transfering the ball back and forth between players. Besides, someone would find some sort of stick 'em to use so that fumbles would almost never occur.

As for passing, TTQB, sticks or dice doesn't really matter to me. As long as the results are more or less realistic. Someone who completes 90%+ of their passes isn't really realistic when you stop to think about it. Nor is playing with guys who aren't very adept at passing and only complete 10% of their passes. I use my dice, and I can look at my stats and see that a QB was 7-13-1 or maybe 14-19-0 or 4-10-2 and think ok, I had a QB who had an average day, one who had a great day and one who probably wished he'd stayed home in bed. How the passes ended up completed or intercepted isn't as important to me as having them occur in a more or less realistic manner. The dice can be streaky. I've had times when I've completed 6 or 7 in a row, and also missed 6 or 7 in a row. That stuff happens. Next time you're watching a football game and the QB completes a pass, just imagine that a 3 came up on his dice, or if he missed that a 6 came up.

The bottom line is that we are playing with pieces of plastic that can't bend, think, or manuver in a manner that a real person can. So, it's up to all of us to use our imaginations to make this game enjoyable. If a guys likes stopping the board a few times to change the direction of his players, or if a guy like using dice or sticks for passing, then let them enjoy it. Live and let live!

[HOOP]

i have a question about the MPFL system. You seem to want to control the movements of the players to simulate real action, and i get that and like that. but we have mainly discussed the skill position players being manipulated as well as the players directly involved in the play. But i am curious to know about the other players in the background. being that you simulate realism:

What do you do if your runningback hooks on to a player and gets turned around?

What if a player gets hit by another teammate and turns around?

What do you do if guys (not necessarily involved in the play ) are running in the complete opposite direction or just the wrong way altogether?

What do you do when men (not the ball carrier) are tangled up and spinning in circles?

Do you find a way to create realism throughout the board on a play?

[Electric Coach]

When I look at the different styles of play, I see that all of them are limited in some way. None of them truly capture the realism that some of us are looking for.

I am shooting myself in the foot when I say this but, in regards to the traditional style of play, allowing the players to go on their own based on how they were trained during practice is not real because the players can’t stop and turn like a real human being would in real life. It certainly isn’t real because nearby defenders allow the ball carrier to run by uncontested.

The MPFL style leaves some things to be desired in regards to capturing realism in that one must stop the board in an effort to get the players to respond like a real life player would. The problem here is that the action has to stop before one can react. Real life players don’t stop before reacting. The movement is constant.

If I combined the two styles, I would get a game where I would adjust players as the board continues to run. I would only stop the board after the play is over. If someone tries to play that way, let me know how that works because I am not trying that. It would be a mess.

I say all of this to say that one has to draw the line in regards to how much realism he or she is trying to get out of this hobby.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

[Anthony D Burgess]

Open you're minds!

We all need to breath, eat, and drink to sustain life. But did you know that when you drink or swallow that you temporally STOP breathing! You choke when you try to breath and drink or swallow.

In order to achieve realism with plastic figures you need to stop the board to do so, much the same way you're bodies must STOP breathing so you can drink you're soda, or swallow you're hamburger.

Stopping the board is natural to achieve realism of a football player doing what football players do, think, react, counter, pursue etc.

[HOOP]

Originally Posted by Anthony D Burgess

Open you're minds!

We all need to breath, eat, and drink to sustain life. But did you know that when you drink or swallow that you temporally STOP breathing! You choke when you try to breath and drink or swallow.

In order to achieve realism with plastic figures you need to stop the board to do so, much the same way you're bodies must STOP breathing so you can drink you're soda, or swallow you're hamburger.

Stopping the board is natural to achieve realism of a football player doing what football players do, think, react, counter, pursue etc.

I am sorry, maybe it is just me, but If this was an answer to the questions i asked in the previous post, then i still dont get it.

[Anthony D Burgess]

With the football game coming on tonite let everone who has posted participate.

Let's watch the game and count the number of times a player changes directions, write the players number and how many times he changed direction.

Now see if you can tweak you're player to change directions just like you seen in the game, and do it without stopping more than one time.

No matter how much programming ( that is what tweaking is ) you do you can not achieve the same result as seen in tonites game without more than one stoppage .

If you feel strongly strongly that you're sytem and players can do this, then man up for the test!

What do you say?

[Anthony D Burgess]

I will answer you're question when I get home, I am at work on my iPhone and I need tobe home befor I answer you're question

[mantaraydre]

coaches


I will let ant explain this in detail later, but with each stoppage, where the player is determines what you can do.

there is a 3 yards buffer rule that determines whether or not you can adjust the player and defensive player

there are engagement rules that determine movement.

If your player runs ofcoarse, depending on the 3 yard buffer(defender in the area)you have a chance to turn a broken play into something (ala barry sanders)


mantaraydre