Why coaches dont give the tweaker credit but give props to the painter

[RavennaAl]

Originally Posted by Anthony D Burgess

How the figures look are very important to how we see this game . Painting is not hard , just put brush to paint , and paint to figure , if you mess up then just paint over it until you get it right .

When you tweak a base you will either get it right or the base is trashed . Tweaking is not as simple as painting , and anyone can paint vs tweaking .

I guess you could say that Painting is an art that everyone can see , while tweaking is less seen as an art form , but more as programming .

Painting is not hard?? Maybe not the way you do it. Put a little paint on a figure and then slap a decal over it. I'ld like to see you hand paint 60 Cardinal helmets for a 30 man squad and actually get the eye and beak correctly. Or paint 60 Rams horns and get the curve nice and round. Or 60 Packers with the 'G' on the helmet. Or 60 Chiefs and actually have the 'KC' in the arrow head on every one. Decalling is easy, painting is not. As far as tweaking goes, I'm not the best base person out there, but it's a helluva lot easier to squeeze pliers than it is to paint a straight stripe!

But, back to the main jest of the post. It's easier for guys to look at a figure and pass judgement on what they see, than it is to look at a base and try to imagine what that base can actually do. Perhaps with the MFCA contests the tweakers will finally get their dues.

[5-13 Studios]

i definitely agree with ya al. i hand paint EVERYTHING (now), my preference, i like the way that it looks. it's not as eas as just picking up a brush and it's done, it takes time and patience, and just the right amount of coffee!

[49ers_Fan]

Tweaking is a specail Art un seen. What i mean by that is, tweaking is different. Munipulating a base to get it to run and do what you want it to. It's great to have a nice looking team, but if they don't have any feet, you can put them next to your trophys on the stand. I'm one of the best tweakers in these here united States, I don't put myself out there know more because it's not worth the headach. Going to tournaments chasing a $, I have guys call me know weeks before the tourny to get what they want. but to see the reaction on there face when they come back to say how that preform on the feild for them that's what excites me. it's not the money, thats why I don't charge guys 10's and 20's of dollors for 1 base i'm low budget. But putting a great base on a sweat team, makes the team complete. Just my take.

Dearell,

MPFL,BEFL

Originally Posted by RavennaAl

Painting is not hard?? Maybe not the way you do it. Put a little paint on a figure and then slap a decal over it. I'ld like to see you hand paint 60 Cardinal helmets for a 30 man squad and actually get the eye and beak correctly. Or paint 60 Rams horns and get the curve nice and round. Or 60 Packers with the 'G' on the helmet. Or 60 Chiefs and actually have the 'KC' in the arrow head on every one. Decalling is easy, painting is not. As far as tweaking goes, I'm not the best base person out there, but it's a helluva lot easier to squeeze pliers than it is to paint a straight stripe!

Two things. First, why do guys who paint everything think that they are better than people who use decals? I can paint, IMHO as good as anybody out there. Now the fact I use decals is because i don't have the time to paint everything and I choose to go that route. I can paint stripes but I choose not to. Does that make my work any better or worse or me any less of an artist than someone who paints everything, HELL NO!!!!!

Second, as far as the degree of difficulty of the two, it takes me about 30-40 min. to "trick out" a figure. It takes just about as long for mr to tweak a good base. The amount of time is what I look at as far as the difficulty of the task. As for the original question, I think it is because you can see a piant job no matter what, but you can't see how well a base is tweaked just by looking at it in your hand.

And, on a totally different note, I read and see a lot of dudes have "The Big Hate" on Burgess and I'm just trying to figure it out? I won't call out names in particular, but just wondering.


DISCLAIMER - THE VIEWS EXPRESSED IN THIS POST ARE MINE AND MINE ONLY AND IN NO WAY REFLECT THE VIEWS OF THE BEFL OR ANY OF IT'S MEMBERS

[RavennaAl]

PC, first of all, Anthony made the comment that he thought painting was easy. I disagree. Putting a decal onto a figure is easy. Painting what the decal looks like isn't. As far as saying the guys who paint stripes and logos are better than those who don't, well I guess the best way to clarify that is by this example.

Suppose you had a canvas and you decided to paint a mountain. You get your brush and paints and you paint the mountain with clouds, trees, grass, maybe even a creek or river going by. It takes you a few weeks to finish it and then you put that painting into an exhibit. Some other guy takes his camera and snaps a picture similar to what you painted. He has a print made and blown up and glues it to the canvas and hangs it next to your painting. Now everyone who walks by looks at his 'painting' and exclaims "Wow, look how lifelike that is. That guy is a fantastic painter. That's the best looking painting of a mountain I've ever seen." etc. Now I ask you, how would you feel???

[GUTTMANN]

There are a lot of good arguments that can come up on both ends of this question. I personally read the question as this;
"Why do the painters get the praise, and not the tweakers?"
Well, I think the question was mainly posted as to them being posted on the chat site. We could post pics all day of painted/decalled up figures and get the Ooohs and Aaahs for them. You post a pic of a "tweaked base" and people will be like, "And....Is this a good or bad base?"
Now, if everyone had the capability to put up a pic of a tweaked base ALONG with a link to YouTube to show what that base is capable of doing, how it runs, or how it was made. THEN, that's a different story. It's how everyone interprets the questions. Same with AB's posts. Just because AB uses Bold, Italic writing, a lot of people will read it as he is either yelling or trying to push his system onto you. Does this make sense?
That's just my thoughts on it.
Mike

[Anthony D Burgess]

Weight are a key component in a lot of hobbies . Trains , slot cars for example the weight add balance and aid in keeping the train or car on track . It also improves performance and gives consistency .

How many times does your player fall over , or run off corse ? Adding weight also means that there is less tweaking needed .

I'm sure that some will say that if your player falsl over to turn the bord down , but this will effect the performance for all players .

Performance is vital in this hobby and if your players can't perform , sorry about that,.............there I go again coaching .

Originally Posted by Geno H

Anthony question for you sir, Why do you add weight to your base?

Geno H

...decallers and tweakers alike! I don't have the time or patience to handpaint stripes, so I use decals. HANDPAINTERS are a step above, especially if they can nail each and every stripe, like AL's Cardinals and Rams! THAT TAKES MAD SKILL!!! BUT...I also think it takes a lil (or a lot of) skill and patience to cut and place 20 decals on a single player too. The painting and picture analogy hit it on the head, AL. Two different competitions and categories there, in my book!

Tweakers get their props when THEY win Gold! Or they beat a dreaded foe in a Tourney. Or when another tweaker compliments them on the way their team just played. Again, usually and most often at Tournies. Or as a Road Warrior playing in a different league.

I do feel ya on why these wins - as a Coach and as a Tweaker - are rarely discussed. Maybe it's because the losing Coach can't give props in public or on the chatboard. I've beaten some big names in the last 2 Seawall Brawls that you'll never hear about (unless I brag - never!) and I've gotten beaten by 2 good Coaches as well. Overall those 2 Coaches outcoached me in those 2 games (Adrian and Simmie, respectively) and in essence and in reflection, probably can be attributed to how they tweaked (Julius Jones and Barry Sanders) as well as how the executed.

I think Game Recaps by BOTH Coaches would be great at any event! Maybe we - The MFCA - should push for that as well as more Pictures, Videos and Highlights!

[Geno H]

Jimbo you wrote:I think Game Recaps by BOTH Coaches would be great at any event! Maybe we - The MFCA - should push for that as well as more Pictures, Videos and Highlights!

I have been thinking this same thing. Also including starters information IE: What brand & what type of base. What brand & what type of figure. You know the whole 9 yards. Whatcha think? I would be willing to do some interviews via the phone to put something like that together.

Geno H

May the G-FORCE be with you.

...should be used. I think we should ALL commit to taking pictures at our own games, especially key plays and scores! Then the base and figure used would be evident in most cases. Here's what I used in my ARENA Game against Matt Miller a few months ago. It's not hard to fill in the blanks and submit Pictures.