3.WHO ? 4.0 HAS OFFICIALLY TAKEN OVER.

[WEIRDWOLF]

So is it 3.2 or 3.3? This is a good debate and that is all it is, but hopefully it will lead to something of value. Besides, I hardly ever get to take jabs at "corey" or RIP. Its all with respect and with a smile on my face.

For the record, I don't have a 4.0 team, but I will someday (if I ever get to compete again) and with the ease of lead tape or the cool tungsten weights that I have found with the Pine Car Derby, it will be a snap to get to that point. I've experimented plenty with the weights enough to know that I like what it does for my figures. Weighting adds another element to the game that further turns the figure-base combo into something special or different from another figure-base that may be identical in form. Its one more thing to discuss that can give the edge to one player or another based on where the weight is added thus further adding to the creativity of the hobby.

Here's a toast to the discussion! Maybe more EM-F-ers (Electric Miniature Footballers) will join in.

[jeff]

Here is how the Mid- Ohio league came up with the weight of 4.0.
We took the heaviest mass produced custom figure and put it on the heaviest mass produced ttc . This left us around 3.8- 3.9. So we just rounded up to 4.0
I believe this was the same method used to establish the 3.2 or 3.3 as a standard.
I do sometimes wonder if there are guys in our league that have every single player on their team weighed up to 4.0
I like Reggies idea of a total team weight .

[Coach Rip]

................there a few reasons for establishing a "standard" as far as playing equipment goes.

#1 A standard is a baseline to go by. Therefor it makes total sense to build from the ground up. No weight, no custom, no boiled.

#2 AS far as I know, tudor, miggle and BuzzBall are the ONLY figures ORIGINALLY designed for this hobby. The other, by the owner's own admission were designed for some other use.

#3 Anyone who has ever run a reputable tournament knows that weigh-ins and inspections are a must. They take time, especially when guys enter at the last minute. Many guys travel a long way to play and it is not fair to them to be loose with the rules.

rules and STANDARDS must be in black and white, .............plain as day..........I don't know how many hours I have listened to complaints about "home cookin" in other tournaments...............another reason I got rid of my phone line!

KISS, ............Keep It Simple Stupid I would advise going with the standard 3.2/3..3 class these are figures originally designed for the hobby in their basic state.


then Modified at 4.0, .........and unlimited, .............. like geno posted.

there it is three classes,............ plain, ...........but, not simple if you want to field a competitive team!

[mantaraydre]

COACHES,

What does a 3.2 team do for you that a 4.0 cant ? At a time it was suggested that if a coach wanted to use a ff.net figure to play in various places, a coach had to

1) cut the head off the figure

2)Get a dremel tool and drill a hole down the middle of the figure

3)shake out all of the excess plastic

4)glue the head back on

5)weigh the figure over.


JUST TO PLAY A OUTDATED STANDARD WEIGHT BASED ON EQUIPMENT THAT WAS THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN DURING THE KENNEDY
ADMINISTRATION.

This so called standard had to be formed way back when where the game only saw

1)miggle regular size men with the dot on the helmet

2)haiti repros

3)Miggle small metal superbowl fields

I would understand 3.2 or 3.3 if we were still only using the above mentioned equipment. We now have

10watts boards

2)308 boards

3)scale size boards

4)ff.net figures

5)miggle proline figures

6)jennings figures.

etc etc etc

equipment used to play this game in 2010 is quite different than a product made 30 to 40 years ago. OFCOURSE STANDARDS HAVE TO CHANGE TO KEEP IN LINE WITH TODAYS CHANGING WORLD.

No one thought grown men would take this game to another level. This is not a box on the shelf sitting in toy's r u s. Due to the talent of our EF peers who bring new and exciting products to the hobby. We have the luxuary to enjoy the game on a new level.

A new comer may get discourared in he see's he must make 3 to 4 different teams to compete. Also, financially, he may not want to do it because of other family needs. But he still wants to create a team to his liking.
A 4.0 cap places every other weight class under it's umbrella except.
unlimited.You can still have your 3.2 and 3.3 under the umbrella. That same umbrella allows for customs and heavier figures. So all is covered. We can keep it simpe and have in writing 2 forms of equipment that will be standard to weight your teams.

1)tungsten weights

2)golf tape

have in writing were these items can be found so a new comer knows exactly where to buy everything he needs to weight his team using the 4.0 umbrella.

Thanx to all for having a diplomatic discussion and not taking things overboard

MANTARAYDRE

[Michigan Joe]

ha ha...my 8 year old son just weighted up his pine wood derby car tonight to turn in for inspection tomorrow. He used some lead weights that his mom bought him at ACE. Just thought it was ironic when he asked me for my scale after I have got into this thread tonight.

Forget the putty Corey, just stick the lead tape under the platform of the figure to get the figure to ~2.7g and watch that figure on the buzzball speed diamond base run super straight and FLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[allftbl]

Hey NATIONAL-I love a "good" debate--it shows passion for the game!Trust me it will take alot more "debating" to push me away.I'm just getting started and feeling the good vibrations,just remember guys some of us newbies are coming in with basic bases and basic teams so don't forget about us(kiss).I know I've got alot to learn-weighing players and tweaking and special figures and different bases and custom boards but all that takes time and thats the "FUN" part so I'm moving forward with eyes wide open and enjoying this ride!My point: I like what you said "its ALL good whatever size you play at.Just play!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Amen to that and ditto Geno H!

[the french guy]

For the weight "problem" (if there is any problem), Franny J boy found a GREAT idea to keep the right weight : he make holes in his figures plateforms. Simple, smart and eficient.

Why go to 3.4 or 3.5? Did leagues do that for performance or customizing? Same goes for 4.1? Why bump it? Just asking.

I've got several heavily customized Niners linemen about 4.2 grams with TTC base The problem is simply anatomic : big belly , big muscles (sculpting putty), big size and heavy bones (ff.net figs)

Now, I guess if I was in an official league, I should do like Franny J boy and cut my plateforms to match at least the 4.0gr...Or I can unilateraly decide that the french south west coast method of playing MF is to use 4.0g on skill players, and 4.2grams max on linemen

Even if I am an heretic (just joking ) with that weight standards, I still think that an official guideline is not useless.It's the same that in slot car racing : they race stock cars, modified cars, unlimited cars. Everyone can choose his preference, or create hybrid rulesets, knowing the hobby standards.


Im my humble opinion, one mistake we should not do is to believe that heavy customs are the best for every MF player and for our hobby. Yes, beautifull customs make the hobby more "fancy" to exterior eyes. It's a good showcase for the hobby (as youtube vids are really good too), BUT I believe you have to keep a "stock" standard.


Once again, I think about slot cars : a newbie can buy a 50USD slot car, and race equally (not speaking of driving skills) in stock category races.

If there is no "stock class", do you think the newbie will buy a 100USD chassis, 200USD armature, 50USD machined gears, 20USD silisponge tires, build his car, tune it and race modified classes ? No, he will just run away and will return playing on his playstation.



Same analogy in MF. Custom heavy classes are a good showcase, stock classes are the way to go for newbies...and for some veteran players too, wanting to put their playing skills before the fancy figs. Stock style doesn't means "low level competition", or "only newbies allowed".

just remember guys some of us newbies are coming in with basic bases and basic teams so don't forget about u

It's the perfect example of what I say and feel as a newbie too (even if I went fast in the customizing side of the hobby, as a former wargamer and sculptor)



AND LAST THING : fashion styles is not burned in stone or durable. What is good today will not be good tommorow for sure. AS a former minis sculptor, I'm sure it's possible to bring really good detail on a fab5 standard size, for example.

You can imagine one day you 'll see a sort of "super fab5" range, detailled figs but with low weight and small size, and every coach will want them because it will be fancy, cool and new, or whatever. In that case, maybe the 3.2 or 3.3 or whatever will become the main standard too. WHo knows ? It's why, in my opinion, keep some standard guidelines is a good idea for beginners coaches (see our texan friend up in that topic), a good idea for veteran players too (who want to play "old school" or the opposite way), and for possible future industry creations, why not ?


We can also imagine that leagues use the same concept than slot racing leagues/club : an "high spec" category (heavy weight or not, big boards, etc...) and keep a "stock" category ( stock miggle or buzzball figures, non weighted bases, rosebowl/620 board, a sort of entry level category for beginners, or for "old school" players) too ?

[WEIRDWOLF]

Excellent posts!

Based on a number of suggestions (Geno, Rip, others) it seems that at least for something that we could put in a "How to Start Being an EM-F-er" guide book, we could layout the following classes.

Stock/Standard (3.3 class) These are figures originally designed for the hobby in their basic state. Customs can be included with additions of facemasks and accessories as long as the overall weight doesn't exceed 3.3.
Or should it just be stock, no changes or modifications other than paint, facemasks, chinstraps. (the essentials)? Maybe Stock comes in 2 classes?

Modified at 4.0

Unlimited

I would like to turn the discussion to definitions for the 3 or 4 classes.
Then we can start talking about height, width standards.

[Coach K-LO]

Originally Posted by artlax

Being Mr. National, The FOTH - is his job.

And he works at it!!

[Coach K-LO]

This has been one of the MFCA's better debates in a long time!

I will simply say that I too, like Corey, have several teams at different weight levels.

The 3 levels discussed would be the best way going forward.

4.0 Ravens (mid-ohio and BAM)
3.3 Titans - NEFL
3.4 Packers, Cardinals, Falcons, Chargers - BEFL

Have not played unlimited in a long time......