Enough is enough. Let's vote!

[RavennaAl]

Dimitri, I can respect your concerns, especially since you have just recently joined the hobby. Therefore, you have the new, or rookie, coach point of view that the rest of us lack. However, there are a couple of things I want to say.

First off, no matter what limit you put on the weight (unless, of course you are talking about unlimited weight), anyone who wants to play against others will want to buy a scale. Why? Because it is the only way to be sure that his figure/base combination is within guidelines. Even at the 3.3 standard, how will a person know if his figures are at 3.3 or under. Perhaps if a person only uses stock painted Miggle players he could be certain, but what if he paints his own team? And how many coats of paint could he put on before that figure is too heavy? Plus, what if a new person sees some FF figures and wants to use them? With the 3.3 limit, most of his players would be over the limit and he would not have any clue as to how much to lighten them without a scale. Let's face it. No matter what, a scale is pretty much a required piece of equipment these days. Most are not that expensive. I think I paid $12 or $13 for mine a couple of years ago off Ebay.

We are talking about a weight standard, not a figure standard. Any Miggle, Buzzball or FF figure should be considered 'standard'. Any Miggle, Buzzball of F5 base is also considered 'standard'. It's simply a matter of how much can you weigh them and still be considered within guidlines of what is considered a 'standard' playing weight. Adding weight to figures and bases is very easy, much more so than tweaking.

Dimitri, you state that you are playing above the 4.0 because that is where you made your figures. Perhaps if we had already had a 4.0 'standard', you might have been more carefull about how much your players weighed when you were making them and could have used them in tournamnets someday. As it is, being isolated over there in France, weight wasn't that important to you. But, if there had been a large following over there, you might have had more concern about being at the same limits as what the rest of them were playing at. I don't know if I'm making any sense to you. I wish I could say it in French to make it easier to understand.

The purpose of this is to not confuse beginners. This has been an ongoing problem with this hobby, too many weight classes, too many different rule sets, too many different board sizes. There is absolutely no standardization whatsoever in miniature football. It's time we did something. This is the first step, hammering out a basic weight that anyone can play at and be on an equal level with others. By the looks of the votes, it appears that most people are favoring a 4.0 limit. This would allow any combination of figures and bases that are commonly available. Hopefully, we can get through this and then move on to other 'standardizations' that will only make the hobby easier and more fun for new players.

[RPD]

No vote here either. I soon will have both a 3.3 and a 4.0

[Treks1]

Originally Posted by RavennaAl

.......This has been an ongoing problem with this hobby, too many weight classes, too many different rule sets, too many different board sizes. There is absolutely no standardization whatsoever in miniature football. It's time we did something. This is the first step, hammering out a basic weight that anyone can play at and be on an equal level with others. By the looks of the votes, it appears that most people are favoring a 4.0 limit. This would allow any combination of figures and bases that are commonly available. Hopefully, we can get through this and then move on to other 'standardizations' that will only make the hobby easier and more fun for new players.

EXACTLY. Well said

[Joeram57]

I could state as KingAtl said it's becoming like JOB building so many different teams and time and expense , but I understand and after a year, I'm almost done and then I can focus on playing.

It is enjoyable to customize figs, but with just less than a year in the hobby and ALL the leagues I CHOSE to play in, just a bit over whelming at times, but I made the choice.

I do agree there should be classes and my analogy is to a professional competitive combat handgun shooting sport which is an international sport, IPSC even aired on ESPN. (I know, some of you "cringe" when I speak of it) They have stock (limited), out of the box gun, no mods, can't shoot as fast or accurate and Unlimited, race guns, fast, smooth accurate, (Indy car)...lots of mods and money invested...

There were a lot of debates in that sport as well at which was "best"...bottom-line the newbie choose what interested them so I like the class idea.

I am just as bad at 3.3, 3.5 or 4.0 or 4.1...I don't discriminate . I will however say a year ago being brand new, I was a bit "intimidated" by a fast board, now I prefer it, so I'm starting to lean towards 4.0 and will have a better answer after the DSMFL 4.0 college league, 4.0 Pro Carolina league and CBSMF, 4.0 experience I will gain shortly.

I'll defer my vote...but yes to classes

Joe Ram
"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space"

[Michigan Joe]

One reason to vote is this...what do you want your MFCA convention tournament to be played at?

I voted 4.0

This is my vote because to me the 4.0 total weight limit is far and away the most impressive class in terms of playability and creativity. This is how I feel we should showcase our great annual convention tournament. We already have the annual Miggle tournament and others for the traditional 3.2 standard. Heck, I love the Miggle tournament...long live the EFL super bowl.

Just my 2 cents (again). That probably makes about 40 cents now for me on this topic.

Regards,
Joe

[mantaraydre]

MEGA/TREKS1

Two incredible post you put on here. Those are the convincing arguments to raise the bar to 4.0. it cant be made any clearer than that.

I think it is ridiculous to create 5000 teams because an individual has strong feelings and leans towards a paticualr weight. if if was 4.0, Your 3.2 and 4.0 players will be included under 1 umbrell. No one said start at 3.7 and end at 4.0.

Dont you like diversity on a team. Your lineman can be 4.0 and your wr's you can leave at 3.2 YOU WOULD ONLY HAVE TO WEIGHT THE LINEMAN. A 4.0 standard allows room for that. WHILE YOU KEEP YOUR 3.2.. aNY PLAYER IN THE COUNTRY CAN HAVE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS ON HIS TEAM. But you want to restrict him to 3.2

Will it kill you to place a strip of golf tape under the figures base. Come on, how long would that take. 40 seconds

I still have not heard a valid reason why a coach who plays at 3.2 feels his figures would not perform the same OR MUCH BETTER at 4.0.
Did you even try it for a moment

What if a 3.2 coach played a 4.0 coach and the field was turned up at a nice rate. But the 3.2 team keeps falling over. the 4.0 team hardly ever falls over. YOU CAN BEST BELIEVE THE COACH WHO HAS THE 3.2 TEAM IS GOING TO ASK THE OTHER COACH TO TURN THE FIELD DOWN

Mantaraydre

[jeff]

Here is a shocker ...... I voted 3.3 .
This is the weight that most of the new guys start out with.
I think this should be considered as the standard weight or " entry level " .
However I only play at 4.0 and love it.

[GUTTMANN]

When a newcomer to the hobby or an adult wishing to take up his childhood game buys a new gameboard, I would guess they buy them off of Ebay or from Miggle. The games come with rules that Miggle has always included in the games. Now, eventually they will go to the Miggle site to order teams and bases and check out the chatsite. We all know that the Miggle chatsite is very quiet, and I'm fine with that as it makes my job easy.

I've proposed a few times to the Landsmans that we should put up a banner on the Miggle chatsite that would read, "If you are interested in a more advanced style of gameplay and rules, please visit this site" and have a link put up to the MFCA site. For them, they are only aware of the stock figures they receive with the games, which would put them in the 3.2 category of a player, of which they don't realize. Once they come over to the MFCA site to see what is "advancing" in the hobby, it only betters the hobby to recruit more players, and this may keep the hobby alive in the future.

Now, if the pole was for, What should the weight be for the MFCA convention and tournament? I don't think we'd all be having this discussion? And I'd probably even vote.

I'm working on the banner thing and I've also mentioned to them for me to re-write the manual in the games to mention the different weight classes and ways to customize the figures to reach the 4.0 level of play.

Thoughts?

[mantaraydre]

JOE


As always, excellent post !!!!!!!!! You guy make alot of sense.

Mantaraydre

[the french guy]

Dimitri, you state that you are playing above the 4.0 because that is where you made your figures. Perhaps if we had already had a 4.0 'standard', you might have been more carefull about how much your players weighed when you were making them and could have used them in tournamnets someday. As it is, being isolated over there in France, weight wasn't that important to you. But, if there had been a large following over there, you might have had more concern about being at the same limits as what the rest of them were playing at. I don't know if I'm making any sense to you.

It makes sense. THe fact is that if I find some fellows to play regularly (club/league) I'll certainly redo (franny j boy method) my figs plateforms to match the 4.0g, to make the things simplier and match the 4.0g class. I 'm not against standards or classes, I understand 4.0g is the fashionable (and perhaps the best) way to go these days, but I simply prefer the equal but diferent classes (classic-heavy-free like many sports/hobbies) idea more



edit :

We are talking about a weight standard, not a figure standard. Any Miggle, Buzzball or FF figure should be considered 'standard'. Any Miggle, Buzzball of F5 base is also considered 'standard'. It's simply a matter of how much can you weigh them and still be considered within guidlines of what is considered a 'standard' playing weight. Adding weight to figures and bases is very easy, much more so than tweaking.

I know you did not wanted to say "that brand is standard, this one is not", but perhaps someones will think that way : what I meaned is simply to keep in mind all the professional actors of the MF scene in that official weight question