TWEAKING Enemy or Savior?

[detroitchild]

as far as putting tweaking on DVD... it has happened and could happen again.

It has? On tweaking? Where is it? If most of us don't know about it (or maybe it's just me) then how in the heck is a newbie gonna find it?

The one thing about the whole thing is that some of us get $$ for this knowledge of tweaking and even though it's available for anyone to do - some will still be better than others just like painting and etc. And some will still want $$ for the knowledge............

No comment on that except to say that whatever learning tool is put out there for the masses, I believe there will still be enough business available for tweakers to make money. I believe in Kenny's premise that new guys should not have to pay through the nose in order to enjoy the EF experience.

In the MFCA video, I did a short tweak on a base and you could see the results, but that is not enough to go over all the little things one would do while working on 1 base to get it right.

I believe the problem is we have snippets of how to do it all over the place. Let's put a polished product together that's easy to obtain or get to.

A DVD of those thinks would be boring to the general public but GOLD to someone wanting to "get it".....

I believe it would be gold for anyone who has an interest in this hobby...regardless of their level of entry (beginner to high-level competitor)


Just my opinion K-lo (with much respect)

[HOOP]

POST - UPDATE ON POST -
It took me so darn long to type this up, that in the meantime, about 5 of you summed up EVEN BETTER what i was trying to say.

But here is the post anyhow, cause since my son didnt get his Raisin Brand cereal right away, someone is going to read the reason why

So let me drop my last dime on this which clarifies my particular angle (of the many legit angles there are) and summarize perhaps the whole thread.
And forgive me if i use some of the same words said.

TWEAKING is necessary, a weapon, FUN TO DO (even in frustration) and yes, a savior............


I. FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE HOBBY ALREADY.
-1. "Competition" Tweakers - Anyone of us who tweak to play in leagues, no matter our tweak or skill level.
-2. "Solitaire" Tweakers - Anyone of us who just want bases to run well (40 yards straight, whatever speed, whatever strength), no matter our tweak or skill level.

However, an enemy (perhaps a strong word) for.............

II. BRAND NEW VISITORS AND POTENTIAL MEMBERS
-1. Adults - who played the game, found our site want to see whats what.
-2. Kids - who are introduced to the game somehow but need some instant success to hold interest (i.e. - Men running straight right away)

On this thread, we have intertwined these two points into 1 discussion when they are two different discussions. I think Geno started this thread cause the same thing happened on the other thread when (i think i am responsible ) it unintentionally got jacked by a few of our (my) posts. Sorry bout that Ken.
But again, lets just understand that some of us are speaking on behalf of the new guy (Potential Member to the MFCA) and some of us are speaking on behalf of the person already involved (immersed even) in our hobby. As far as Tweaking goes, that is a 2 angle discussion, depending on who you are talking with.

Hobbyist want to share, gain, discuss and apply knowledge in the MANY different aspects of the hobby and enjoy
New adults want to see that its NOT the same game as before, but not that it has surpassed their imagination where they become intimidated or feel it has gotten TOO big where they unfortunately cannot fit in.
New kids want to see this hands on game operate the way they play in their Pop Warner Leagues or see on Madden. AND THEY LOVE IT!!!!, seen it many times over. But it has to hold their interest and that means more bases running better out the box, or an easier way, or easier base, (complete with tool) to be tweaked quickly so the kids get right into the game.

HEY -imagine this - a tool comes with the game with base that just has to be squeezed alittle for it to run. This immediately gets kids involved in tweaking and just adds another dimension to the game. They immediately feel they can tailor the game to their own likes by squeezing harder or softer or, or................ One thing we ALLLL know about kids, once they (WE) get our hands on something of interest, the ideas start to flow. Imagine this discussion on tweaking 10 years from now if kids got involved in tweaking ( with provided tool) with every Miggle set they brought?

On this thread, it has turned into a healthy discussion that will lead to some sort of change in the future - BOOK THAT! Perhaps a DVD as Don mentioned or a starters kit complete with a tweak tool for new members, as someone told me as an idea, or something else like????......... (FILL IN THE BLANK):________________________________________


THANKS GUYS FOR ENDURING THE LONG POST.
sorry bout that, it was supposed to be short and quick.

Scott

[mozeek]

What I find interesting about this post is that cats are concerned with getting paid for passing along Knowledge and MIKE GUTTMANN.... has passed along samples of his product for guess how much ??????????????


NOTHING......




THIS HOBBY KILLS ME

WE NEED TO REALIZE NO ONE PERSON OR COMPANY WILL GET RICH ...BECAUSE OF OUR HOBBY.....

[Drk]

......now we're getting somewhere. We are all starting to say the same things with our own twist to it. Bottom line is we all love this hobby, we all have very worthy ideas, and we are all willing to share (what we charge for the sharing is not the issue!).

I can't paint by numbers let alone on little one inch men, I can't make decals, chin straps, custom boards, stadiums, or much else for that matter, and I can hardly sculpt butter onto a sandwich so I sure as ^&*^& am not very good tweaking anything appropriate to mention here

I can sell ice cubes to eskimos though and probably at a profit and I am pretty darn good teacher and coach; I do it for living after all and so do others here. I can also organize alphabet soup!

My point is when it comes down to it we are all on the same team here, all have something to contribute, and if we all work TOGETHER we can get this done and done RIGHT!

I am ready to help out Weirdwolf; I will call you soon.

[Pirate Rick]

Guys, the thing about tweeking that everyone (execpt those that do it) seem to be missing is that IT TAKES TIME TO LEARN and get good at.

I have had the blessed honer of being taught by VP and believe me, even with his guidance i have STILL RUINED bases learning how to do it, and have seen him ruin a few also and he has YEARS of experience, its just something that happens when your going for that perfect base...its a very fine line between perfect and trash.

BUT.........

It's not a magical unicorn, or a mythical being from MT Olympus, it is a LEARNED SKILL and as such it takes time to master. there are tools that work better then others , but a tool that works good for me might not work for you the same way. I think the trouble is, we live in a instant gratifacation type world... (i want that and i want that right now and it has to work right or i get rid of it!!) and that is the real problem, NOONE WANTS a game you have to put time into...they want plug and play...and EF is alot of things...but plug and play is not one of them.


even if you give out kits with pliers and dvd and everything....most kids wont wanna mess with it.. its too much trouble when madden is plug and play. now if someone could invent a "PRE TWEEKED" base right out of the package, that would go along way in getting that instant gratifacation factor, and keep people interested.

Thats just the way i see it... you have to put in the time to learn the skill...and it just seems people dont want to do that.
i saw for myself at the Canton Convention that the best tweekers in the room were FREELY and HONESTLY showing others how to tweek if you ASKED THEM....once they show you there is nothing more they can do...you have to go ruin some bases till YOU find YOUR groove in tweeking.


Just my humble opinion.

[Coach K-LO]

[quote=detroitchild;138994]It has? On tweaking? Where is it? If most of us don't know about it (or maybe it's just me) then how in the heck is a newbie gonna find it?


Smitty put out a dvd awhile ago, but not in the manner that this thread began. possible that even with a DVD that breaks things down to it's lowest component - it still does not determine that others will follow it to improve their skills.

No comment on that except to say that whatever learning tool is put out there for the masses, I believe there will still be enough business available for tweakers to make money. I believe in Kenny's premise that new guys should not have to pay through the nose in order to enjoy the EF experience.

Only thing I can say is that some people make things unaffordable or unavailable because they "cornered the market" and now they drive the business... I have spent time with many in the hobby willing to learn it from me... some have graduated and others have dropped out of class... There is too many "tweakers" now that my business has suffered a lot of the course of time, from the tweaking aspect..... so the $$ is a little less


I believe the problem is we have snippets of how to do it all over the place. Let's put a polished product together that's easy to obtain or get to.

bring the camera crew and let's do it......

I believe it would be gold for anyone who has an interest in this hobby...regardless of their level of entry (beginner to high-level competitor)

Don, it is GOLD for all - just how much are you going to take from the stack, or how much will you add......

for the record, I still have give awys and discounts for package deals........... and still give stuff away to those who want it.....

I spent a few hours with Joel P. and Mark K. discussing and tweaking bases and we never felt like we should record the session for other to gain knowledge from that session...we could have, but never thought about it...

[Coach K-LO]

Originally Posted by mozeek

What I find interesting about this post is that cats are concerned with getting paid for passing along Knowledge and MIKE GUTTMANN.... has passed along samples of his product for guess how much ??????????????


NOTHING......




THIS HOBBY KILLS ME

WE NEED TO REALIZE NO ONE PERSON OR COMPANY WILL GET RICH ...BECAUSE OF OUR HOBBY.....

what was the last thing you gave up, besides that last TD????

[mozeek]

TWEAKING IS THE SAVIOR ....ALONG WITH THE PROGRESSION OF THE CREATIVE PEOPLE THAT CONTINUE TO PROPEL THIS HOBBY UPWARD....THE FIGUREMAKERS, BOARDMAKERS, ARTISTS AND SO ON AND SO ON....

[sweetka]

I only got excited and posted a vid. I didn't know that I would come off as selfish, unwilling, nor helpful.

I brought a vendors liscense because some guys purchased bases from me not because I live or die for this crap. I was really just contributing to the MFCA actually.

I didn't intend to get into a negative debate with anyone let alone those who take it personal when your opinion differs from theirs.

The reason why I did not comment on a DVD is because not only do I feel that information is available but right now I personally don't have the time and resources. One would think any contribution is worthwhile. Bottom line is if you don't have time and patience, forget it. Find your wallet.

I did find time to do several extensive tweak shows with tons of pre-hype only to see a few good men and several so called tweak masters hiding under anonymous veiwers.

I did not post for no other reason but to offer hope.

Lesson learned.

Peace.

[the System]

I just want the bases to work.