Eric & Dave's Open Run College Tourney...web page is up

[Hook'em Horns]

Three are some teams that run the option every play in college football. I know we are playing MF but if we're trying to add that element then somehow we have to try and impliment. College games don't seem to get in as many plays as the pro's anyhow. Especially when ball control teams are playing, i.e. teams that run the ball 90% of the time (option teams). Etc. I'm all for the welfare of the ruleset and the league but I'd really like to feel the college flavor. Will reverse plays be allowed? there is so much more trickery in the college game than in the pr leagues. Every game won't feature option teams and on those games we will very well be able to reach almost 100 plays. Just my opinion.

[Reginald Rutledge]

Eric,

I like the option but I think you put the defense at a total disadvantage if you do not allow that player to react to the pitch. In the Shootout scheme, if a ball is transferred anywhere during a play, the defender always has had the option to react to that play.

I know you want that pitch man to be able to get yardage and yes, if the defender is zoning, that particular defender should be okay for that play but the defender has always reacted in the Shootout scheme when the ball transfers.

Just an opinion. Like I said, I like what you're talking about but that's my main concern is putting the defenders at a big disadvantage. You know the D is always at a disadvantage.

Reg

[Hook'em Horns]

here is an idea. React all unengaged players to the pitch man with the exception of the guy who takes the QB...

For example. Most likely your swooper would be the guy flying around end. At this point the offense should stop the set in fear that the QB would be getting hit by the swooper on the option play. The offense would then say pitch. However, in reality that end would not stop coming and the QB would take a good lick on the pitch. If you allow the swooper coming around end to react he would make the play 90% of the time which would be unlike reality. Just a suggestion on how to handle the ball transfer reactions. This will also allow the RB to pass the ball after the pitch but before he gets to the line of scrimmage. However, he should not be able to use his starting TTQB to attempt the pass. His 3rd team TTQB should be attempting the pass should this be his option.

[kotixblack]

Reg,
What I am basically trying to describe is a QB roll with a option to pitch the ball to a RB. The board is started with the QB rolling back (max of 15yds), or to the left or the right, flanked by RB's. The whole time the board is on and the defense is in pursuit. The offense must stop the board to determine whether or not to pass, pitch , or scramble. If the offensive coach decides to pitch the ball, then the defense is allowed to react after the ball is advanced 10yds. from the los. If the QB scrambles, then the defense can read & react immediately. I hear where you're coming from Reg...I don't want the defense to be at a disadvantage either. I think to run the option this way will take about as long as a QB roll out. Lets try this with the defense adjusting on the pitch, and without, then post the results of what we found, and then suggest the best, or most fair way of doing this without totally exploiting the defenses. I also like to experiment with Mikes' ideas...adjusting all un-engaged players on the pitch. Also, Mike mentioned the RB passing the ball after being optioned to...it would cut down on confusion if the defense provided the QB for the offense (RB) to pass with. What do you guys think?

[Reginald Rutledge]

Can you and Coach Champion show this on video of the different scenarios. If Jimbo can show a few other scenarios as well, that will help. Then there is LL Cool Greg and Steve's version and maybe an informed decision can be made.

I just question options because if you are OU, you just may want to pattern the Sooners of the 70's and 80's with Jamel Holloway running the bone. In MF, that would take time unless a time limit was placed (use that passing time) on the time it can be done in.

Reg

You cats have some great ideas! Ya'll getting me pumped!

Reg, where are you with the wishbone, right now is it included or excluded. If included how many adjustments does the D get?

Mike, I like your idea about not being able to angle the defensive man that takes the QB on the pitch...its like real college football...the QB gets blown up on the pitch! What if we just said that the closest defensive man to the QB can not be angled as opposed to the one designated to defend the QB. My reasoning is so the defensive coach can't point out some other guy away from the play as his guy designated for the QB and then angle the guy right there to make the tackle.

Also I have an additional suggestion to the half back pass...You said use the third string passer, Eric suggested that the defense provide a passer. My suggestion would be that tournament officials provide an "artificial QB" for everyone to use on halfback passes. My reasoning is so the Offensive coach can't lie about the passer being his third string and the Defensive coach can't provide a junk QB that he knows throws way to the left.

I probably sound paranoid...but I'm just trying to remove any areas where guys can cheat.

Great ideas, keep them coming!

DMC

[Hook'em Horns]

Great Question! Here is how I see it! We are trying to make this thing as realistic as possible right? Here is the best scenario I think...

On option plays the option side DB normally gets locked up man 2 man with the receiver and is taught to fight off the block and take the pitch man while the safety picks up the receiver. Well in EFL the defense is going to have to decide weather to bring the safety up to take the pitch man and possibly get burned deep or bring the safety up as if to attack the pitch man and fall back into coverage.

With this scenario you would angle all unengaged players on defense once the board is stopped to make the pitch. However, the decision to pitch comes after the defensive adjustments and then after 10 yards the defense would get a second adjustment.

here is the reason why you do it this way. Well coached players are coached to stick with their assignments and/or make a decision and stick with that decision. The QB normally makes his decision to pitch or run after the defense has committed one way or the other. This gives you the "ball fake" effect, you only need one stop and it doesn't take any extra time. If you run your defense right, under this format the option will have the same success rate as a sweep around end under the TSO stye rules it will just give you the triple threat option of pitching, passing or running opposed to just running the sweep outright.

This scenario allows the defense the absolute best way to defend the option. while still giving the option a realistic chance to be successful!

However, because of the audible the defense will not be able to load to one side to protect option left because if I audible to option right under this style of play the defense only gets one move. Very tricky but very doable!

With this scenario you would angle all unengaged players on defense once the board is stopped to make the pitch. However, the decision to pitch comes after the defensive adjustments and then after 10 yards the defense would get a second adjustment.

Man this is a great Idea! I never thought of it this way. Talk about coaching...So the O stops the board, the D angles to defend the QB, pitchman, receivers downfield, whatever, etc, and then the O gets do decide what to do, keep, pitch or pass. Sounds great...I have to try this.

The best thing about this is that it is consistent with the current roll out rule...when the O stops the board, if he decides to let the QB keep the D angles at that point...the only difference is that there is no second adjustment after 10 yards. Timing wise it should be about the same as when you roll your QB.

Great stuff Mike!

[Reginald Rutledge]

I know the Big 10 Commissioner, Greg Hardmon, said he will show this today (Sunday) as far as his version of an option play. I was talking with him about the option and when he played at Sag-Nasty, they ran the option all the time. Also, Big East Commissioner, Mozeek and I had some interesting discussions about the option too.

We discussed the time issue and which men to react within the allotted time frame. We discussed the 10 seconds when the board is stopped and the switch turned on. Also, what happens on the weakside of the D? Do you only concern yourself with who would be involved in the play on the left hand side of the D?

So these are two guys who's voices should be heard on this matter. We will allow for the 'Bone. If we can implement a double reverse with one transfer of the ball, show me and let's see if it works. Visual aids always help.

Mike, great breakdown of the option and the logic behind it. We will practice this play this upcoming week. Keep the chatter going on this scenario.

Reg

[rjackson]

......a punk in boys in town!!!! Man this is exciting. Yo this is a great scenario because I brought this same question up to Reg several weeks back. After this conversation I would like to get the Audible thing discussed. Is it going to be 2 for 1, 3 for 1, 3 for 2, 4 for 2, 4 for 3. Offense is the leading number followed by the defense after the (FOR). I think because of the option the defense should be able to react accordinally. This topic should be shelved until the option discussions cease.