Eric & Dave's Open Run College Tourney...web page is up

[kotixblack]

Mike!
Dave Campbell & I tried your idea for the option over the weekend, and it seemed to have worked. We ran it with the QB and 2 backs in the backfield (no full house backfield). On the option, the offense has 7 seconds to alert the defense of his intentions (whether or not he will pitch, or the QB will keep the ball). The defense can then adjust all un-engaged players, then the O will tell the D whether the QB will keep the ball, or pitch to an eligible RB ( RB must be beside, or behind the QB, & 3-5yds within the QB to receive the pitch).

If the offensive coach fails to alert the defense to adjust for the option within 7 seconds, then the D can adjust automatically, then again after a completed pass, & again after the receiver has gone 10 yds beyond the los. By giving the offense 7 seconds to decide whether or not to pitch, pass, or scramble puts pressure on the O to decide quickly, or give the D multiple opportunities to make adjustments. The adjustment scenarios are: (1) the offense tells the D to adjust within 7 seconds…the D knows that either the QB will keep, or pitch to the RB, so the D adjusts accordingly (If the ball is advanced 10yds pass the los, the D can adjust again). (2) The offense fails to tell the D to adjust with in 7 seconds…the D adjusts for the option…if the offense decides to pass, and the pass is completed, the D adjusts again (If the ball is advanced 10yds pass the los, the D can adjust again). I agree with doing it this way because it is consistent with the TSO Rules, and the D still only gets to move one man on the audible.

[Reginald Rutledge]

Yall know this style puts pressure on the D but we also know we like scoring in this style.

The question of 2-1, 3-1, 3-2, 4-2, should definitely be looked at. Colleges score at great clips so we do want to keep the exciting element of scoring.

Yall need to table this also with the Big 10 Commissioner (Greg Hardmon) and Morgan (Big East) and maybe Geno. I think Beenutt is cool with whatever decision on the option and Biglock is as well but I have not discussed this with Geno.

Reginald

correct me if I'm wrong E...

The adjustment scenarios are: (1) the offense tells the D to adjust within 7 seconds…the D knows that either the QB will keep, or pitch to the RB, so the D adjusts accordingly (If the ball is advanced 10yds pass the los, the D can adjust again). (2) The offense fails to tell the D to adjust with in 7 seconds…the D adjusts for the option…if the offense decides to pass, and the pass is completed, the D adjusts again (If the ball is advanced 10yds pass the los, the D can adjust again). I agree with doing it this way because it is consistent with the TSO Rules, and the D still only gets to move one man on the audible.

I understood what we did as this: (I added my additions in red)

The adjustment scenarios are: (1) the offense either calls the receiver and throws the ball or tells the D to adjust within 7 seconds…the D knows that either the QB will keep, pitch to the RB, or still possibly pass, so the D adjusts accordingly (If the ball is advanced 10yds pass the los, the D can adjust again). (2) The offense fails to tell the D to adjust with in 7 seconds…the D adjusts for the option…if the offense decides to pass, and the pass is completed, the D adjusts again, if the pass is completed (If the ball is advanced 10yds pass the los, on a pitch or QB keeper, not on a completed pass, the D can adjust again).

Reg, RJ nothing has been set in stone, we are still open to other scenarios. But I have to say that this one works well, was fun to play and it is consistent with the TSO ruleset. We want to try to get these rules nailed down in time for us to play them at the next Open Run and so coaches can have at least a month practice them. We still want to hear from the other coaches with option rules and coaches with input on the wishbone as it pertains to the TSO ruleset.

DMC

[kotixblack]

Dave, what you described is correct. I left out some key elements in my description which would have given the D xtra adjustments. Thanx for catching that.

As Dave said, nothing has been set in stone, we are still open to other scenarios. But I have to say that this one works well, was fun to play and it is consistent with the TSO ruleset. We want to try to get these rules nailed down in time for us to play them at the next Open Run and so coaches can have at least a month practice them. We still want to hear from the other coaches with option rules and coaches with input on the wishbone as it pertains to the TSO ruleset.

Reg, if you talk with these guys, have them (Big 10 Commissioner (Greg Hardmon) and Morgan (Big East) and maybe Geno) chime in on this.
Thanx!

[Hook'em Horns]

This is almost exactly how I intended for it to be played out when I thought of it. The only element that I did not think of was the 7 seconds to tell the defense pitch or run and if no decision was made then the defense would get more time to adjust for the pitch and adjust again if the offense decides to pass.

Here is how I played it. I took what I thought was the least amount of time and what I thought was the most efficient and it worked great!

Once the option is ran and the board is stopped the offensive pass clock should start automatically! In the DFW its a 20 second pass clock. As the clock is going the offense is scanning the field for open receivers. The offense needs to make a decision to pass, pitch or run within that 20 seconds.

If the offense decides to pitch or run that is all that needs to be stated, "pitch or run". A decision to do either is not made until the defense is through adjusting. After the offensive coach says "pitch or run" the defense would automatically adjust to defend whatever they saw on the field would be the best option for the defense. The offense would not determine whether it was going to be QB keeper or a pitch until the defense was finished adjusting. If the offense does not say "pitch or run" before the 20 second pass clock is up it should be an automatic QB keeper. If it was a pass the defense would not get any adjustments until after the completion.

Why would the offense need to wait 7 seconds to state pass and even more time for the defensive adjustment to decide to pass. This waste very valuable time and gives the offense 7 additional seconds plus defensive adjustment time and pass clock time (47 seconds if you use DFW time) to scan the field and make an attempt creating another disadvantage for the defense.

This will be a very effective play if run correctly. As for the audible, I think we need to go with the 4 for 2. The TSO rules do not allow a wishbone backfield but with the college element it does so if the offense gets one extra guy the so should the defense.

Here is the other scenario on the 4 for 2. Under the current rule set the defense gets to audible 1 guy regardless if the offense audibles 1, 2 or 3. With the wishbone being an option the defense should get to audible 2 as well regardless if the offense audible 1, 2, 3 or 4. If not people will just flop side with only 2 of the backs in a wishbone set which will cripple the defense if they are only allowed to move the 1.

[jhpr3]

How will the pitch be done? Will the qb have to throw the ball back to the back as if the was in the open field on the other side of the LOS? If so, what if the pass is incomplete, fumble? out of bounds? Placement of the ball?
Just wondering. When we allowed pitches in the ACEFL it was a pass back to the RB using a TTQ, if the pass was incomplete-the ball was going backwards so it became a fumble-the defense was allowed to adjust to recover and the board was turned on-first top touch recovered the ball. If the pitch when out of bounds, the play was dead and the new LOS was at point.
john

[kotixblack]

[quote=Mike Robertson;43020]If the offense decides to pitch or run that is all that needs to be stated, "pitch or run". A decision to do either is not made until the defense is through adjusting. After the offensive coach says "pitch or run" the defense would automatically adjust to defend whatever they saw on the field would be the best option for the defense. The offense would not determine whether it was going to be QB keeper or a pitch until the defense was finished adjusting. If the offense does not say "pitch or run" before the 20 second pass clock is up it should be an automatic QB keeper. If it was a pass the defense would not get any adjustments until after the completion.
QUOTE]
You may have a point in starting the pass clock when the set is stopped. That would surly make the O swift in making up its' mind on what to do. The reason for the 7 seconds was so that the offense could get the full 20 second pass clock if they decided to pass instead of pitch. If the O elected to pass, then the 20sec. clock would start. I'm glad you pointed out that the O would get an additional 7 sec. We ran the plays, but did not take into account that the pass clock should start time the set is stoped. We plan on going the whole 9 at the next Open Run, clocks and everything.

[Hook'em Horns]

The pitch would happen automatically as long as the pitch man is in the base and a half pitch zone and the pitch zone is not occupied by a defender. The box would dictate if a fumble had occured.

If we allow pitching with the TTQB, as bad as a passer I am there would be a lot of fumbles. Lol. Also, the yardage loss on the pitch would be too substantial if a TTQB was to miss the pitch.

[Ned Flanders]

One rule the LAEFL uses is that only 2 of the 3 backfield players can be pointed in the same direction at the start of the play. That was put in place to avoid the "rugby scrum" play, with the QB and 2 RBs plowing up the middle. Is that rule still in force with the Option Play? I would love to see option plays like FB up the middle, QB and RB around end. Or even 3 players off tackle/end. I just don't like tight-line, 3-up-the-gut MF. Maybe just a simple rule that says "at least one backfield player must be pointed outside the tackles".

[mantaraydre]

WEST SIDE COACHES



On the participants my last name is spelled " COGDELL' !!!!!!!!!! Also there was no "x" indicating i registered and i did.



THANKS

MANTARAYDRE