passing simulation : the QB "tunnel" problem

[the french guy]

Hi,

Yesterday I made some tests, trying little passing plays. With decent base tweaking, I was particulary good in the medium range passing play. But as a former wargamer, something annoyed me a little... the line of view from the QB to the receiver.

Yesterday I used a simple rule : if any receiver base is not in contact with opponent base, he's elligible to receive. If the QB is not in contact with opponent base, is elligible to pass. BUT I tought it was weird that my QB can pass the same way if he's safe in the pocket, or if he's under heavy pressure (for example, two big men at about 1 or 2 yards from him) and can barely see the receiver.


So this morning, I searched for rules clarification (in buzzball rules for example), but didn't find (or understand) something to clarify that particular point.

Like the kicking game I was speaking about yesterday, it's all a question of pressure.


See the schemes I made.

In fig1, the QB can't see very well the receiver (the "wall" is made of defense opponents, but it should be the same with big friendly linemen hiding the line of view) and He will be hit in a few seconds.


In fig2 , the QB doesn't have a good line of view too, but he 's not under pressure.


So the questions for passing sim fans are...

do you manage the lines of view ?

do you manage the defense pressure on QB ?

How ?

Do you think I should not try to complexify the game ? (but believe me, when I'lll make demos of this game, especially to wargamers, they will notice the line of view problem...)



In my mind I 've got possible solutions too :

use the smallest passing stick to make a perimeter around the QB base, in direction of the opponent endzone, where passing is possible, if figures bases are in that perimeter, the QB incomplete the pass automatically (simulate pressure)

use the passing ruler (the big red and white one) to see if a line of view exists : if you can trace a virtual ray between QB and receiver without touching any oponent base, passing is possible.

But perhaps I' m just complexifying the game too much, causing unbalancing. Advises are very welcome

Thanks,

DImitri

[Coach Rip]

Just play a few games and you will see like many others just because you are using the sticks as opposed to the TTQB, the pass isn't a gimme like many try to make it easier than it really is to complete a pass using BuzzBall's Pass Simulation.

[the french guy]

OK, thank you for the answer. I 'll go for a couple of play using the "normal rules", and see if I like it or if I want to change it, I believe. By the way, I didn't feel it so easy, the problem was more a question of simulation. But I guess as a newbie I should focus on "classic" ruleset, and not of on MFPL rules for now

BTW, do you agree on that :

if any receiver base is not in contact with opponent base, he's elligible to receive. If the QB is not in contact with opponent base, is elligible to pass, no matter line of view between the 2 players, or defense pressure on the QB

?


thanks,

Dimitri

[Lindyhopper49]

a lot of quarterbacks throw downfield with a lot of pressure right in their face, sometimes fractions of a second before they get leveled!

the oncoming linemen/ blitzers are not always going to be running at the qb standing straight up, so while they might be infront of him, a qb that is standing up tall in the pocket would probably be able to see over the athletic pose of a lineman bombing in to get him.

even if his line is holding and every one is more upright the qb should have time to shift around in the pocket to find 'windows' to see down field (the qb at my school is listed at 6'1"... eveyone knows that means he is 5'9"... he is shorter than his line and plays almost on his tiptoes sometimes, and with one heck of an arm He is the second ranked passer all time in canadian university football , I wouldn't worry about straight sight lines, a good qb can find them...if he couldnt the team would find one that could.)

I see the pressure acting more on the time that the qb can look, making him throw too soon when things havent developed yet.

[the french guy]

Actually, your thinking sounds really crystal clear. It's what forums are usefull, to make other people think better than us

More seriously, what you said makes a lot of sense. I honestly didn't thought about it :o

[mantaraydre]

FRENCH


When using sticks dont worry about the line of view, just have your qb sitting in the pocket ready to pass. YOU MUST HAVE 7 MEN ON THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE OR IT WILL BE A ILLEGAL FORMATION.

1) 5 LINEMAN WITH 2 WIDE RECEIVERS

2) 5 LINEMAN WITH 2 TIGHT ENDS

3) 5 LINEMAN WITH 1 TIGHT END AND A RECEIVER ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE TIGHT END

*** IT ALWAYS MUST BE 7 MEN ON THE LINE.

I PASS SIMULATE THIS WAY.

LINE UP EVERYONE AND HAVE THE QB IN THE SHOTGUN. Set up your defense in a 3-4 or 4-3. When the board is turned on the defense lineman will try and get to the qb in the alloted time. for me that is two, 2 second run offs.
I ALWAYS HAVE MY DEFENSIVE BACKS TURN AND RUN WITH THE RECEIVER DOWN FIELD.

1)BOARD COMES ON FOR 2 SECONDS AS THE PLAY UNFOLDS. During this time you can put a defensive player on the outside of the defensive to blitz.SINCE YOU CANT CUT THE BOARD OFF BEFORE 2 SECONDS, IF THE RUNNING BACK MISSES THE BLOCK, HE CAN SACK THE QB IF HE IS QUICK ENOUGH.

If you doint see a wr receiver open to catch a pass (MEANING IT IS TO RISKY TO PLACE THE STICKS ANYWHERE). YOU CUT THE BOARD ON FOR ANOTHER 2 SECONDS. During this time you qb can roll out to either side or remain in the shotgun for the 2 seconds. IF YOU CHOOSE TO USE THE SECOND 2 SEC INTERVAL, WHEN THE BOARD IS STOPPED THE DEFENSE CAN ADJUST ALL THE LINEMAN TO RUN TOWARDS THE QB FOR PRESSURE AGAIN.

***RECEIVERS DOWN FIELD, theres no reason to look for a line of sight when using the sticks . Once you pick up any stick, that is the actual pass being thrown by you. The sticks simulates the ball is in flight. YOU MUST BE A SMART QB AND KNOW WHERE THE DEFENDERS ARE BEFORE LAYING DOWN A STICK TO AVOID AN INTERCEPTION.

***THIS IS MY RULE, When you pick that stick up, YOU GOT 2 SECONDS TO FIND A RECEIVER AND PUT THAT STICK DOWN NEAR HIM. Watch a football game, when the qb drops back count how many seconds he has before he has to throw it. 95% of the time it's 2 seconds because the defensive pressure is coming. When you pick up that stick it stills means the defense is coming. I dont want to give guys all day to get a cup of coffee then put the stick down.

***HERE IS HOW I MEASURE, I USE THE FIELD !!!!!!

1) 3 YARD STICK
2) 4 YARD (REDZONE STICK ONLY)
3) 5 YARD STICK
4) 7 YARD STICK
5) 9 YARD STICK

****WHEN THE RECEIVERS RUN DOWN FIELD AND THE BOARD STOPS, LOOK WHERE THEY ARE. ( ITS MY DROP THE ZERO'S RULE) IF HE IS

1) ANYWHERE IN BETWEEN THE 20 AND 30 (ADD THE 2 AND 3 FOR THE 5 YARD STICK )

2)ANYWHERE BETWEEN THE 30 AND 40 ( ADD THE 3 AND 4 FOR THE 7 YARD STICK )

3)ANYWHERE BETWEEN THE 40 AND 50 (ADD THE 4 AND 5 FOR THE 9 YARD STICK

4)ANYWHERE BETWEEN THE 20 AND 10 (ADD THE 1 AND 2 FOR THE 3 YARD STICK

***MY RED ZONE IS THE 10 YARD LINE TO THE BACK OF THE ENDZONE (I ONLY USE A 4 YARD STICK TO MAKE IT INTERSTING

***JUST THINK, ANY RECEIVER HAS TO STOP SOMEWHERE. This method is very fast and cuts down on any additional measuring.
so when you see a receiver open you immediately look to see where he is and you know what stick to grab right away.
***REMEMBER, YOU CAN PUT THE STICK NEAR THE RECEIVER GOING IN ANY DIRECTION TO MAKE THE CATCH.

I love this method of passing becasue it is very precise and the field is your giulde. I love that boom, he's between the 40 and 50 let me grab the 9 yarder and place it down IN THE 2 SECOND ALLOTMENT. Once you do this it plays out like a real passing scenario and real game. love it.

ON A SCALE SIZE BOARD, A YARD IS A 1/2 INCH THIS IS HOW I MAKE MY STICKS. You can use the measurements of your board but for me the scale size makes the sticks longer and the reciving more interesting.

1) 3 yard stick 1 1/2 inches

2) 5 yard stick 2 1/2 inches

3) 7 yard stick 3 1/2 inches

4) 9 yard stick 4 1/2 inches

VERY FAST VERY COOL, I THINK YOU WILL LIKE IT.


**IF A RECEIVER IS BEING TOUCHED YOU CAN PUT THE STICK NEAR HIM FOR A CATCH. BUT REMEMBER, THAT DEFENSIVE BACK IS SO CLOSE HE HAS AN EQUAL CHANCE TO MAKE THE INTERCEPTION

***IF THE QB IS TOUCHED WITHIN THOSE 2 SECONDS (HE IS SACKED FOR A LOSS).

FRENCH, IT ALL PLAYS OUT ON THE FIELD, JUST USE THE FIELD !!!!!!


THANX
MANTARAYDRE

[the french guy]

thanks for your very complete answer (as always). It's really usefull and inspirating

YOU MUST HAVE 7 MEN ON THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE OR IT WILL BE A ILLEGAL FORMATION.

7men is a minimum, OR it is also the maximum ? I believed that I was able to put 8men on LOS ?

I ALWAYS HAVE MY DEFENSIVE BACKS TURN AND RUN WITH THE RECEIVER DOWN FIELD.

I didn't think about it ! smart !


For the passing sticks, I use buzzball rules and sticks (adapted to the "real" yards of my field, I made a topic on that somewhere). It works great, and the game stills very dynamic.

for the stoppages, I'll stick with 1stoppage by play for now, to keep the thing learnable for our poor "polluted by soccer" french friends

to explain :

board ON by the offense coach, off when he want to pass (finding a open receiver, if not see the buzzball rules for automatic incomplete pass or QB run). Then, allowing pivots of unengaged defense players, then use of the sticks to make the pass, and put the ball marker.

then board cutted ON again to see if the pass is complete, incompleted or intercepted. Classic MF play, I guess.



But, as always, I'll read that carefully what you wrote, and come back with a pack of new questions




thanks,


dimitri

[detroitchild]

Dmitri,

At this point in your MF evolution just remember to keep it simple AND fun. You'll figure out the rest as you go along. Also keep in mind that you can adjust the rules as you go along.

Right now just worry about the basics.

Don

[the french guy]

Yes, I thought about it, I have to relax and calm down with the rules

I'll just focus on basics, but stills some questions about some points, anyway


thank you all !

[Lindyhopper49]

i like the idea of limiting the time to place a pass placement stick!

I will have to integrate that! (but i think it will decrease my completion percentage... HA!)