DIPLOMATIC TACKLING !!!! CAN WE TALK ?
 

COACHES,

Can we talk tackling in a diplomatic fashion. I would to hear many thoughts on this. I was prompted to write this beause i read somewhere(can't rememeber where) that some coaches are not good at F.O.B.( Front of base tackling).

***please explain what in the world does that mean !!!!!

ARE YOU SENDING YOUR DEFENSIVE PLAYERS ON THE RIGHT ANGLE TO CLOSE THE GAP AND MAKE THE TACKLE ?

It all depends on the distance your defender has to travel to make that tackle when you angle him. I was told in a certain league, some coaches would angle there defender exactly at the offensive player when the board is stopped during player adjustments, and the defender was a decent distance away. Well, that offensive is not going to be in that area when the board is turned back on, so why angle him there. I know the reason, some coaches feel there base are fast enough to hurry and make that tackle. But many times end up getting burned. ESPECIALLY AFTER A RECEIVER CATCHES A PASS IN THE OPEN FIELD.

In pro football and college, they spend alot of time on angle tackling. You hear announcers say many times, " oh, he took a bad angle and could not make they play". No matter what the distance, you must always think,
HEAD HIM OFF AT THE PAST !!! Like a stalker boxer trying to slow down a dancing boxer. CUT THE RING OFF SO THERE IS A SMALLER AREA TO FIGHT IN. DONT CHASE HIM AROUND THE RING.

same thing in football, ANGLE WHERE YOU FEEL THE OFFENSIVE PLAYER IS GOING TO END UP ACCORDING TO THE SPEED OF YOUR DEFENSIVE PLAYER.

SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE :
We as a whole must begin to honor the broken tackle. There are only a zillion broken tackles during any football game because, that's football. There is nothing more annoying when a running backk is breaking through the line about to break one into the open field and a THE SIDE OF A DEFENDERS BASE GRAZES AGAINST THE RUNNING BACKS BASE AND WE CALL IT A TACKLE. That is not no tackle, THAT IS A BROKEN TACKLE. if it was the side of the defenders base, THE DEFENDERS WAS NOT EVEN LOOKING AT HIM. He was not squared up to make a tackle. He just happended to bump into him during the evening rushour.

Another scenario is when the offensive player runs into the back of the defensive player and we say thats a tackle. NO IT IS NOT. once again, the defender was facing/looking at the offensive player. THE OFFENSIVE PLAYER JUST HAPPENDED TO RUN UP BACK AND RAN HIM OVER. The board and play should continue on until the offensive player either breaks free or is REALLY TACKLED.

WHY HONOR THE BROKEN TACKLE :

1)To increase more exciting plays (Running backs breaking free for bigger gains)

2)To increase honorable stats. (It's time to see 1000 yard rushers across the country)

***ABC ( ANY BASE TACKLING) is similar to TOUCH football. Any initial touch and the play is over. Also, it is like quarterback play of today. Just grab him and the play is over. In all of football, you are taught to square up your shoulders and make the right tackle. I think they teach this to kids in sandlot/peewee football also. There are some coaches on this chatboard who coach outside of miniature football. Maybe they can explain/verify this. But for the miniature football coach. THE SQUARING UP OF SHOULDERS SHOULD BE THE FRONT OF THE BASE.

**The front of the base is that players eyes and shoulders in regards to FACING that offensive player to make the appropriate tackle. Three forms of square up tackling.

1) THE ENTIRE FRONT OFTHE BASE
This is a direct full contact tackle with both arms. Similar to a ray lewis swarm and take down.

2) THE FRONT LEFT CORNER OF THE BASE.
This will resemble a shoestring tackle similar to grabbing and ankle tripping up the offensive player. or grabbing a piece of his jersey to slow him up until you can get a good hold of him. ( NOT GRAZING WITH THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BASE WHERE THEY PLAYERS ARE SIDE BY SIDE. BUT ON A SLIGHT NOTICEABLE ANGLE FACING THE OFFENSIVE PLAYER.) If there is any question on the tackle, just look at the defensive player. Is he side by side, or angled in slightly towards the o-player.

3)THE FRONT RIGHT CORNER OF THE BASE
This will resemble a strong grip jersey pull down. ( ALL THE SAME APPLICATIONS AS # 2)


**THESE PLAYERS CAN'T SHUFFLE THERE FEET AND PUT A JUKE ON SOMEONE, BUT THEY CAN BREAK A TACKLE if we let them.

***WHAT LEAGUE'S ACROSS THE COUNTRY PLAYS FRONT OF BASE TACKLING.

***I honestly think many backs can rush for 1000 yards in a eight to ten game season around the league.


SOLITAIRE COACHES, The broken tackle will make your games more exciting !!!

THANX
MANTARAYDRE

Dre

I do not agree with you on this point.

I watched many football games today and saw many tackles where the defensive player made tackles not head on from the side .

I saw one runner run into the line and was tackled by his on lineman.

I saw a defensive player tackle a RB with his BACK!!

It happens, I could care less what people want to do in there leagues or tourniments that is there decision.

Just let me know before i play.

Just my thoughts

PLAYERS
 

just remember these figures can't twist their arms !!!

Did you read the

2) Front left corner of the base ?

3) Front right corner of the base ?




MANTARAYDRE

No I did not read all of your post .

I see more problems with looking for the front corners .

It seems to hard to get good refs who pay attention before this little hits

I'll reply to one of your questions
 

The greatlakes league has used FOB for the last 6 or 7 years now.

Norbert Revels

mid-ohio does fob (including front corners) on runs for the first 10 yards from scrimmage, then it is any touch after 10 yds. It is any touch always on qb runs, pass plays and special teams.

Here we play with FOB tackle (including front corners tackles), essentially to make the running game easier.

Yes, easier because it was frustrating to see a defensive player randomly (blocked in a pile, for example) touching the RB with his back with no defense strategy reason : with FOB it happens less often :D

Without the FOB rule, if my running back run and hits (side or back) a defense figure, we were not happy with the fact the defense play didn't choose to touch the running back. No defensive intention, just luck. And we didn't find that realistic at all (when we see a real game, rushing and contact doesn't mean tackle for sure).

The FOB rule is easier to marshall too, I believe.


It's my newbie point of view ;) I guess some "master coaches" will say the opposite, making their running play easier without FOB rule but with better tweaking and better strategy ?




is that rule used to make the passing play more difficult ? it's interesting, since I believe FOB is especially good for running play.

I think FOB would make stacking the line almost mandatory. I prefer a more realistic looking style of play, where defenses use 4-3, 3-4 and 5-2 alignments. I have no problem with any touch and my teams seem to do just fine. Just what is it that you're looking for anyways? Do you want teams to constantly run 30+ yard TD runs? Or would you like more 10-14 play 80 yard TD drives? Where do you draw the line between running the ball and a defense stopping it? I wrote posts before asking that same question. There is a fine line between letting an offense run the ball and having a defense be able to stop it. I've had runs stopped before because the runner ran into the back of the defender. Yes, it's frustrating, but in the grand scheme of things, it all works out because I also have some big plays as well. It's all a matter of checks and balances.

Highly Trained Team
 

If a coach expects his or her defense to be successful in FOB tackling, he or she has to have well trained players that are set in the best position to make plays. That means the coach must know his or her players’ loop patterns. This doesn’t mean that a coach won’t have to make adjustments. In no way, does this mean a team will be perfect. I am saying that a soundly trained team will get those FOB tackles.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

Theres no stacking allowed in the Greatlakes, Offense or defense
 

You don't have to stack on defense to stop the run at all when using FOB, as electric coach states, know your team and train them, I run 4-3's, 3-4's and 2-2's, as do others here.

P.S. In some leagues where they play anytouch, you can stack.




Norbert Revels

I agree. FOB is more realistic to me. In addition, if o-line spacing is at least half a base apart then that makes for realistic holes in the line for both the running back AND linebacker to squeeze through. This is more conducive to FOB tackling then watching a locked scrum move up and down the field.

I agree, we play with one base width between each player position on the field, and 3yards minimal lenght between players alignements. So staking is not possible. Add FOB to that, and you see (in our beginner way of playing) a lot less not intented tackles ;)



EDIT : I suddenly wondered myself if we were speaking about the same thing :

for me the FOB tackling rule is that : the defensive player can ONLY tackle making a contact between his own front base side (and front corners) and anywhere on the offensive player base. In one word, the front of base and front corners of bases rule concerns ONLY the defensive player.

Do you agree with that ? :confused:

Yes Dmitri, that is what most of us are speaking of.

OK, thank you Don, for a moment I was afraid that the FOB tackle rule concerned the front bases of both opponents...that would be tuff to tackle in that circumstances (= front base to front base only), I guess :D

360 Degrees
 

Front of base tackling requires that the front of the defenders’ base must contact any part of the ball carrier’s base. An example would be the ball carrier’s base is hit on its side by the front of the defender’s base. Another example would be the ball carrier’s base is hit on its rear by the front of the defender’s base. Basically speaking, 360 degrees of the ball carrier’s base can be hit by the front of the defender’s base.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

OK, it's just the way I play thmbsp$ and I like that rule !


thank you for the detailed explanation.

I will tell you what I hate more than anything. My Olineman is engaged with a Dlineman head to head and my RB is going threw the hole and he is called down because the RB brushes the side of the Dlineman. Remember that the OL and DL are engaged head to head. COME ON MAN!!

That's the whole point!
 

FOB rewards good line play. You have to train the OL to stay on the block and teach the DL to get off and expose as much of the base as possible. This is why any touch normally are not more physical than FOB. Just my 2 cents.

Amen, I mean unless the D lineman has more than half of his base exposed I dont think this should be a tackle. If he is fully engaged then I say the O line got a good block. But if he is coming off the block then its like he shed the block and made the tackle. I guess this would make alot of controvery but some brushing the side of base is controversial also.mgngcrz

THIS IS FROM A BOOK
 

COACHES,


This is from a book in regards to linebacker tackling.


A linebacker must adhere the fundamentals critical to proper tackling. As he approaches the ball carrier, he must lower his hip, come to a balanced position, and keep his head up, drive his helmet across the front of the ballcarriers numbers, wrap up with both hands and grab cloth. He must run through the ball carrier, keeping his feet moving until the ballcarrier is on the ground. A perfect tackle is rare, but linebackers must learn the fundamentals of proper tackling so they make individual tackles WITHOUT THE HELP FROM THE REST OF THE DEFENSE.
***How do we translate that on the miniature football circuit. LIKE ELECTRIC COACH SAID, "YOU MUST KNOW YOUR TEAM "


**WITH THAT SAID, COACHES WHO PRACTICE ALOT
How does an upcoming coach get to know his team properly ? So they can tackle the right way.

INSIDE LINEBACKER PURSUIT
 

Coaches,

ONCE AGAIN FROM A BOOK

In regards to the inside linebacker :

An inside linebacker covering a remaining back must learn to cover the swing pass.The reality is the linebacker covering the swing will not be able to prevent the completion.The best defense against the swing pass for the linebackers to take the proper angle, come to balance, square up and make the tackle.on the back after he catches the ball and before he can get upfield. He must not overrun the back. If his angle to the back is too flat, he will run past the back. If his angle is too sharp, he will not be able to contain the back after the catch, and the back will head for the sideline.

*** BEFORE I GO ON, DOC SMEBY SAID, "one of the best offensive weapons is to throw to the backs coming out of the backfield "

Why, due to today's looper happy coaches, THERE'S ALWAYS AN OPEN AREA WHERE THE LOOPER USED TO BE. He is not in his area anymore because HE BLITZED. 6 to 8 yards gained each time. In the shootout system, you can destroy folks all day throwing to the backs. See don't the looping stop. ALSO, IT'S A CLOSER HIGH PERCENTAGE MAKABLE PASS.

BACK TO THE TACKLING.

My question for you tweakers is, Do you think you should scrap having strong linebackers and just make them super suoer fast. because in todays society with TURN AND BURN, AFTER 10 YARDS YOU CAN SEND PLAYERS INTO PURSUIT, SEND PLAYERS AFTER RECIVERS AND RB'S AFTER A CATCH.
Should your linebackers be super fast to cover one side of the field ro the other, TAKING THE PROPER ANGLES.

Should you tweak your defensive line extra strong to compensate what you are giving up in linebacking. I think a smart move is to have two sets of lb's. During the cousre of the game you will notice if your getting blown away by the o-line. Then you must find added strength. But if your defensive line is handling things quite well on there own, Then you have the freedom to play those fast linebackers for the ultimate defense.

YOU TWEAK MASTERS KNOW BETTER THAN I DO SO GIVE US YOUR WISDOM.
Remember, PROLINES CHANGED THE GAME AND EVENED THE PLAYING SURFACE SOMEWHAT.

DIPLOMATIC !!!!!!!!

THANX
MANTARAYDRE

BUTCH YOUR RIGHT
 

COACH B-CARTER

Your 100% right, it is annoying when your runner brushes up against a defenders base going through the line. The play should not stop there. i think a linebacker has to come up and make the hit or the runner will head into the open. Because how many times has a defender tried to grab a ball carrier coming through the line and the runner tears past him because the lineman did not have the right grip or angle.same thing applies here. Also, while the lineman are dancing, one just happens to spin and the back of his base hit the runner. C'MON, YOU CAN'T STOP THE BOARD THERE.

Thanx
Mantaraydre

it 's what I tried to explain but with better words :D

it why "anytouch base tackling" just sounds no fair for me, since there is no intention of the engaged defender to tackle the running back in the examples you gave us. thmbsp$

FOB - you can do it
 

ALL this talk about FOB tackling..... Best way to play this game to use all the figures and bases to the best of their abilities to make realistic football plays on the field!

We have been playing this way for years here in th BEFL - Home of the ONLY TOURNAMENT THAT FEATURES THIS STYLE OF PLAY!!!!!!!!

In order to be sucessful on Offense, it still starts with the O-line. We have talked about it before, but using a varity of blocking patterns you can create running lanes in FOB that is not always avaliable in ATT (any touch tackle). FOB makes the defense play more honest. Defenses cannot simply run 4-4 stack [where you and 2 defenders stacked over the OG and the center and 2 tackles are uncovered] and speed rush from the outside because they would get housed by the run.

FOB play calling is even more fun because you can try to run traps, off-tackle plays, pulling linemen, etc. You can do these things because you still have to "tackle the ball carrier".

On Defense, you have to get players that "can get off blocks" and still maintain upfield momenteumthmbsp$ thmbsp$ . You can play lots of defensive fronts and you can stil run the 4-4 stack, but your other players better know how to fill a hole.

During this weekend's games, I was playing a passing defense with my deep safety (Haiti DB; DDB base with a ITZ dail - extermly fast) was 30 yds from the LOS and the offense ran QB Draw and just as the hole opened up and the Qb was getting ready to take it to the house - BOOM!!! comes the safety to make the hit for a one yd gain. Yes with the FOB.

I have played a many of styles and like someone else said, stacking is allowed in some ATT leagues.

We don't play stacking. but that does not mean that your LB and DB can't come up from deep to make a play. You can run between the tackles and if you get "hat on hat" you RB should be able to find the hole....

Deliberate Tests
 

I learn what my players can and will do by first setting them in ideal positions to make plays. Basically, I deliberately allow them to pursue the ball carrier. This test shows me what my players will do without obstruction. I will create a hole in the defense for a specific linebacker to fill. If the linebacker passes the test, I then test him without the deliberate hole. That test will show me what the specific linebacker really can do. The hallmark of a true line backer is his ability to shed blocks. Some linebackers can fill holes really well, but some fail at the point of attack (base-to-base contact). I have various tests that I put my players through to determine how well they will play a particular position.

Believe it or not, after my players have proven themselves, I sometimes set them in positions to fail; they still manage to make a play. So instead of setting the linebacker in a position to fill a hole, I set it a position to miss the hole. This type of test is for my running backs. When I run the board to see my running back, the linebacker that I set up to fail makes his way to stop the ball carrier. That confirms that the particular linebacker is ready to play.

Maurice
The Electric Coach