PRO FOOTBALL STACKING
 

HEY FELLAS I WAS JUST WONDERING IF ANY ONE WHO WATCHED THE GAME LAST NIGHT SEE ANY STACKING WHAT SO EVER IN THE GAME? I SURE DIDN'T, BESIDES THE EXTRA POINT THAT WAS BLOCKED? I SAW THEM PLAYING BACK AND IN THE GAPS. JUST A QUESTION!

stacking
 

hey marty,

i was watching that also. Those saints linebackers were back at least 5 to 6 yards. There was a major gap between the defensive line and the linebackers.

mantaraydre

lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$ lffng$

Here is Michigan's Defense in what they call a version of their 3-3-5 Stack.

As far as Miniature football goes, I think that Any Touch vs. Front of Base tackling is far more of a factor to the running game than the rules on stacking...especially if games are played on big boards that are 24" wide. Then again, with shootout it would be hard to imagine front of base tackling when the offense gets 3 moves to only 1 on D. Therefore I'd have to say that the presnap audibles are probably the biggest factor in the running game.

I hear ya Marty
 

But even tho you don't see it, there is no rule in place that says a team can't stack if they wanted to. They always do it on 4th & short...especially if the team comes out in a jumbo set!!!

Nat'l

stack
 

hey joe,

First off, thats a nice shot of a play. The outside linebackers look like they are in the gaps. In the picture scenario, all of those backers can shuffle from left to right if need be, In electric football, the players are standing on a square box that usually does nothing but goes straight and pushes behind the d-line. In the picture scenario, those michigan backers will still delay for a second to react to the play. If it is a pass play, they will never just run into the line and push. They would flare out and cover the backs.

mantaraydre

YOUR RIGHT MANTEREY. BUT I HEAR YOU TOO NATIONAL SAYING THAT IT ISN'T A RULE NOT TO STACK BUT THEY ALSO DON'T STACK ON EVERY DOWN EITHER. IT SHOULD BE 4 TO 5 YDS BACK FOR RB'S AND LB'S OR LB'S PLAY THE GAPS AND ON SHORT AND INCHES OR GOAL LINE ONLY SHOULD STACKING BE ALLOWED AND TURN THE QB AWAY FROM THE RUNNING PLAY UNLESS HE RUNS THEN TURN THE RB'S AWAY FROM THE PLAY, OR HAVE A RULE WHERE THE MLB MIRROR THE QB ONLY AND EVERYONE ELSE BACK UP OR PLAY THE GAPS. I THINK THAT IS A GOOD ONE IF YOU GOT TO HAVE ANY STACKING.

No disrespect to what you guys...
 

are saying but I can usually tell who can not pass or come up with creative run plays based on the topic of stacking. That's no knock on the ingenuity of coaches. All I know is that with lateral bases and TTC bases, you can nullify any stacking by running through holes. Also, at least in the Shootout system, the 3-1 audible makes it scary to stack on a SKILLED coach.

Stacking occurs all the time in football, especially when a QB can not pass. Blitzes are stacking. The 46, which the Bears perfected put players in every gap possible! When teams run a 5-2, you can do dog blitzes as well as an array of other defensive schemes.

What many guys who delve into this subject want are big gainers, like 10 yards per rush. Unfortunately, that does not happen in reality. So because you see defenses that completely shut your run game down, instead of devising systems aimed at creating holes and using the equipment that is available, you cry "no stacking".

Last year, Priest Holmes rushed for 1500 in the CBSMF. This is in a stacking-type of system! Larry Johnson had 1,000 yards rushing! His average was high.

If you develop the ability to pass with consistency, I would have no reason to stack! When I played Rookie, Greg Hardmon, and a few others who offered a real ability to pass, I could not stack to stop the run. I had to allow for gaps because I knew I would get burnt.

For the Box passing, those that rely on it too much will get burned too! Jim Davis threw so many interceptions in 2009 because he relied on the Box instead of understanding he was a 70-30 run/pass team. This year, he had a runner over 1000 plus an 8-2 regular season record.

Just observations I have seen over 15 years of having this discussion. NFL, NCAA, high school, and pee wee stack all the time. Players are physically unable to stack like real players because there is just a limited amount of space but they are stacking. You see what you want to see and believe what you want to believe. But for me, the 46 defense tells me everytime that stacking is so real - when you can't pass.

Reg

i hear you.
 

i hear you reg, i hear you but preist holmes rushed for 1500yds cause it was on a defense that was thinking about a 95% pass ratio (probably). also they do not stack all the time i never see stacking, blitzes aren't stacking the blitzers are in the open gaps, but it's not about who can pass or who can not pass it is about playing real like ball with no bullying. it's ok only when they are logically used.(meaning in certain situations) 4th and inches, goal line or extra pionts etc.. with allowing stacking on every play it creates a pass first attitude. I can pass almost 95% and it don't bother me at all if i had to pass every play but i don't want to pass every play i can run against a heavy stack i ain't neccessarily talking about my teams. what it is, is that stacking is not a real main aspect of football it is positioning in gaps and openings. it shouldn't be about trying to trick them to stack because every one knows that the 2 rb's is coming out of the back field 99% of the time with stacking. it should give the defense and offense some space so that they can react to the ball by them selves without help so you can assess the individual players. just like the pros and college. what if we get a draft system going and you actually had to trade a player for another and repaint him up or something, then you will want to see what that player can do by himself not with help from a push. it will determine who need what at what position and then the draft or real trades can be created with the base and all 1 complete man that another team would love to have that you might not need and he has a complete man you need INTERNATIONAL TRADING is what i'm getting at. i'm thinking futuristic.

Oh and BTW I saw recievers stacking several times during the game.

RD

Also what Reg is saying is true... Develop good coaching schemes and stacking shouldn't be a problem. I welcome any coach in the country to stack on any coach who is proficient in the shootout rules, he will be obliviated. Develop a good balanced defense and the 3 to 1 audible will be nuteralized...............

RD

THE QUESTION IS
 

COACHES,

The question is, why are the linebackers being stacked directly behind a defensive lineman, when it is not done in the pros. ONLY DURING A GOAL LINE STANCE OR 4TH AND INCHES.

The reason linebackers play so far back so the can drop back into coverage or react to what the running backs are going to do. They need that space for the reaction. I feel the only reason a coach must stack is because he is afraid of the other teams strength. Also, since the qb is an additional blocker, they must compensate for that extra push. THAT IS THE ONLY REASON. Last night those saints linebackers were so far back i thought they were going back to the lockeroom. This holds true for stopping a receiver at the line also. When we were little tikes. that was the only strategy we knew of. Set up a road block to keep him from getting down field. Im sorry but i must go by what i see watching professional football.
In regards to receivers, remember, the are standingon a square box just like the db. Put 2 cars in front of one another and have both go forward. you will see the same scenario. In the nil or college, receivers have various moves to fight off the los. via us of the hands and footwork. These plastic toys cannot do that.


mantaraydre

Dre
I disagree with your idea that the recievers can't get off the line. The reason is you as the coach have to figure out ways the get him open. One os many ways is to stack your WR 's ,angle him, use custom players with their hand out of the way and tweak your base to move off of the cover corners.

Also this is a game it is not real football. It is good to try and make it as close to real football as you can but it is a game!!

I dont see the need to stop stacking. Don't fix it if it is not BROKE. Is this system broke??

Reg and RD are right on what they said. They told me this early on when I first started YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PASS>

I have coach in High school for 17 years and have been the D-cord nator for at least 10 years and I promise you if we played a team that couldn't pass we would stack the box. If we didn't we were stupid!!
If you can throw in EFL I want stack the box . Every team I played in Canton repected my passing as I respected thiers and there was limited stacking.
I have most of the stats from Canton and the SWC and am looking at them right know.When I played Mich Joe he had 70 yards rushing against me His passing was a little off so I did stack against him a little more than some others. I had 168 yards rushing against him.You have to be creative to get holes to run threw.I had 90 against Mike and he had over 90 against me.I had close to 100 against Rick. Rick never runs so quess what I rushed two or one man the hole game.
I guess I dont get it . I rarly line up in a power set and just run right at you.I rarly see other coaches try that bully ball either. I hope no one is mad at what I am saying but Dre and Marty how many games have you played against stack? Just a question .
I played the Cally rules with no stacking and dont care for it as much as I like the stacking rules. I dont go on line and say there style is not real football .I could get used to it but it is just a little different to me.
I am not trying to tick anyone off just like to call em like I SEE EM.

I do beleive you Cally guys have a more wide open style just by looking at the stats that you put on leage daddy and looking at the stats that were put up in Canton. I like the idea of playing some "D" in this league.

Good luck on more imput by others.

IT'S ALL POSITIVE FROM THE GEORGIA CAMP.
 

NO BASHING OF LEAGUES OR RULES INTENDED FROM US WE JUST HAVE DIFFERENT PREFERENCES BECAUSE ALOT OF GUYS EITHER LIKE STACKING OR DISLIKE STACKING, TO EACH IS OWN. BUT I PLAYED MANY MANY GAMES ON STACKING AND TO ME AND ALOT OF COACHES I PLAY WITH OUT HERE PREFER TO DO WITHOUT STACKING. IT MAKES FOR AN ALL PASSING GAME MOST OF THE TIME. I CAN PASS AND RUN BUT THE INTENTION WAS JUST TO GET OPINIONS ON THE SUBJECT AND TO TRY AND SEE IF GUYS WOULD LIKE TO OPEN THE GAME UP A BIT IF THEY HAD A SAY IN THE MATTER. BUT IT'S ALL POSITIVE COMMUNICATION.

Check this out stacking is used as referenced in this definition. It's a scheme that can be used if you so choose to use it.

(Please see diagram at the end)


This version of the 3-3-5 removes a lineman to get the nickelback.
This version, usually called the 33 stack or 3-3-5 stack, uses an extra strong safety, and "stacks" linebackers and safeties directly behind the defensive linemen.In American football, the 3-3-5 defense is a defensive that is used to
confuse the offense by applying different blitz pressures on the offense while playing mostly zone or sometimes man coverage. This alignment is rarely seen in the NFL, but is used by many high schools to counter attack the spread offense scheme. Boise State,Texas Christian,and West Virginia have used this formation with success in college football. Michigan ran this formation during the 2010 season.

Teams that run the 3-3-5 generally use it because they are a relatively fast but smaller unit compared to the opposing offense, and they want to cause blocking assignment issues for that offense. Also, a 3-3-5 can be adjusted to a 4-3, 3-4, or 4-4 defense with the same starting players.

To effectively play the 3-3-5, the "Front 8" (e.g. the eight defensive players closest to the line of scrimmage) must be physical and tough. The three down lineman must be able to control the running lanes, execute an effective pass rush, and be able to keep the opposing offensive line occupied so that the linebackers can make plays. The two outside or "Stud" linebackers must be effective at pressuring the offensive line and reading and reacting to the play as it develops. The middle linebacker (also known as the "Mike" linebacker) must be able to effectively move in the direction the play is going (also known as "flowing to the ball") while also being able to shed blockers and make plays.

The defensive secondary must be equally capable of pressuring the offensive lineman and dropping back into pass coverage. In particular, the free safety is the most versatile athlete on the field as on any given play he can drop in coverage, pressure the quarterback, or play a "Mike" linebacker if the defense switches to a 3-4 alignment. In this alignment the free safety is generally the best playmaker and smartest athlete on the defense.

So coaches as you can see stacking is used in football if you so choose to do it, by trying to do away with stacking your taking away schemes that can be used and have been used in football past and present......

Dre,
Create atheletes on dial bases so that they do flare outside to cover backs coming out of the backfield. Creating different schemes is what makes this game fun(think). Just B/C I have a LB stacked behind a lineman doesn't mean that they are headed straight ahead when the ball is snapped.

It may not be used often in the pros but it is there to use if they so choose, as referenced in the defenition of the 3-3-5 stack defense. And BTW I have seen coaches who do have recievers go right or left when the set is turned on. It's just a simple tweak of the base. But as a coach you must be willing to think outside the box.

JUST DIFFERENCES
 

Coaches,

There will always be a different outlook in this game depending on styles.

Playing the MPFL style and now the PRO SET. You are pretty much taught to have your linebackers @ least 5 yards back sitting on magnets. THIS IS DUE TO THE STOPPAGES SYSTEM. You read then react after the first stoppage.
If run, take them off there magnets and have them run up and make the tackle.
If pass, some will stay on the magnets and some will blitz. Depends on the situation. In the MPFL or PRO SET you will get killed if you stack because the systems are balance friendly for coaches to pass or run. So you will always have to play both equally. In the pro set league STACKING IS ALLOWED. Smitty did not want to take that away from coaches. In this system it will only hurt coaches and they will stop as the game goes on.
Due the the rule where wr's can pivot off the db's. One slight opening down field that 4yard passing stick comes out and the wr is going for his catch.

Being that pass simulation is a major part of these systems, a coaches passing game via ttqb can be way off. But there is still the pass simulation option which keeps the game open at all times. With that said, the linebackers can not afford to be placed in a stack on a first and 10 or 2nd and 5.

Another note is due to playing on scale size boards which are much larger, leaves for much more wide open space all over the field. So with the combination of

1)qb must hand off and not block
2)passing options in case one is not working
3)more open space
4)and the stops themselves.

Really leaves no reason to stack.

It is just a matter of what style you personally like that will put you closer to playing how you see it on tv.

MANTARAYDRE

Tripple Stack
 

In the 1960's AFL days, Hank Stram ran a tripple stack defense. The DL was positioned as LDE over the tight end, LDT over the left tackle, the RDT over the center, and the RDE over the right tackle. I see many teams use this DL formation, also called a KC front. The LB were set like this : the LLB was behind the the LDT, the MLB was behind the RDT, the RLB was behind the RDE. In a coaching clinic I was told that it suts down the strong side runs. The LBers were in a better position to get into their zones, and the LBer reads were better. Now when you have Willie Lanier, Curley Culp, Buck Buchanon, Emmit Thomas, Aaron Brown, Bobby Bell you can play any defense you want. The biggest problem with this defense is that you can cut off the LB pursuit with angle blocking.ltsplbll