Am I the only EF coach who dislike this rule?
 

Some tournaments and leagues have a rule where you can use two figures on the defense of line. In other words, you do not have to cover all the blockers. Now you have blockers just running down the field and a LOT of guys coming from both sides of the 5 blockers.

Am I crying? If you feel this way, then you do not see my point. I am going to do a poll to get an idea what people think about this rule. My local league has this rule and I will have to play by it.

I have not played EF for over a year and I thought people where trying to put rules in to make this game as close to a real football game. I know we can never make it just like a real football game. But some rules we have helps.

Example, is how we turn our defense players at the WR, when the WR catches the ball. We do this, because these figures do not know to turn around and go after the figure with the ball.

I look at this the same way with my blockers. If no figure is in front or at the corner of my blocker, how does my blocker know to go block a LB or another player.

Yeah, you can put on ITZ dials and make them go side ways. But you are just guessing where to make your blockers go and hope they will block someone.

I never heard of a real football game just having TWO defensive of line men on the line. I heard of a Three - Four defense. That is cool to do.

This rule to me, does not seem to go in the dirrection of making this game like a real football game.

I know everyone has their own rules on playing this game. I am not trying to say who rules are better. This question is more focus on me finding out if I am the ONLY EF COACH that dislikes this rule.

Now for my poll question. Do you like, dislike or not sure about this rule?

Hybrid Schemes
 

I thought under certain circumstances a defense may set up a 2-5-4, or even a 1-5-5 formation (see Professor LeBeau :) ).

Is your LB in front of my blocker?
 

TV, is your LB 5 - 10 yards back in FRONT of my blocker to run right at him? If so, then that is fine. But if your LB is no where behind your d-line and letting that blocker go, then that is wrong in my eyes.

Lets not let this get out of hand. Focuse more on covering all the players is all I am asking.

I know not everyone will agree on this rule. I am just keeping this simple to see what people think about NOT covering all the offense players.

Tony

Mr Michigan,

I agree, I don't like this rule. It's probably put in place to stop those pass happy teams?

Also, the Giants used a two man fron against the Bills in the Super Bowl

Wally

2 on the line
 

Sounds like you would need a stronger O-line. i see nothing wrong with the rule I dare someone to play a two man line in our league with front of the base tackling them LB better be like lighting comming around them corners or esle my rb is to the house:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Mr. Mich " The Nfl Has Def Schemes Using Only 2"
 

MICH


It's not a rule it's part of football strategy, their are teams with def sets that run only 2 lineman. The patriots ran a def scheme with NO lineman !

look at some dime packages and notice who is on the field. remember defenses have schemes galore. In the nfl the def players can line up wherever they want on their side of the ball. All out blitz packages warrant dif personnel on the field at any given time. If you see just 2 run a trap or draw down the pike. One thing i push for is letting us play like the nfl, some rules force you to have running backs on off plays, WHY ? If i call a play with no backs in the backfield why cant i carry it out. IF THEY DO IT IN THE NFL TAKE OFF THE HANDCUFFS AND LETS US PLAY EF LIKE THEM !

THAT'S WHY I LOVE THE SEA WALL BRAWL RULES !!!!!!!!


BROADWAY-DRE

OK, NFL teams have two d-line men
 

OK, real football has two D-Line men. But my point is about EF players knowing what to do when a player is not covering him.

Anyway, 6 people did the poll so far and 4 dislike and 2 like. Now I know that I am NOT the only person who dislikes this rule.

Thank you guys.

Tony

Rule
 

Technically if you look at it you're really playing a 4 man line. Just because the DE's are lined up outside the offensive tackles doesn't mean there's only two men on the line. Your initial reaction is, "Nice, only two guys on the line I'm going to run all day on this guy," but as they find out running up the middle on this type of play is difficult. If your linemen are all downfield then you should have the dials turned harder to pick up the linebackers. DE's are taught to keep the play inside and not let the backs to the outside. If you line the DE's up on the tackles you can't accomplish that. So next time you see it (and you will if you play anyone from Harrisburg) look a little harder, there's (4) guys on the d-line they're just disguised a little bit. :p

RAIDERMAN

good points tony.......
 

i understand your points tony and I more/less agree with where you are coming from.

1st - in the any-touch style - this gives the defense MORE options than the offense because you, in essence, by pass the O-line and can have more players in the offensive backfield. Coaches with speed players will win this way more than lose.

2nd - in front of the base style- as forUtohate stated, you most likely get knocked off the ball but the edge defenders still get into the backfield quickly.

3rd - the standard tournament defense (2 DL with 2 stacked LB coupled with 2 or more loopers) crushes most running games by allowing (usually) the center and 2 tackles to go uncovered and the stack presents the 2-man vs. one in the middle.

I am sure AB will jump in here about the MPFL way of changing that concept (which could be very true) by allowing all players to be adjusted during a play. However we are not all on that level, yet.

Most of us play "junk" defenses to get to the QB or have more defenders to stop the 5-wide formations we all have faced. None of these things are bad, just what is out there.

BEFL 2007 football will be addressing this season in a few ways that, our hope, will make both offens and defense play honest and not rely on the "junk".

:cool:
K-LO

This is all good
 

Of course everyone is going to have their own way at looking at this. I brought this up because I am in the process of putting together a team for this kind of play.

Maybe you guys can give me some pointers. Right now, I feel my TE is in BIG trouble. Because I know that there will be TWO players on BOTH of my TE to push him back and then a player will be coming at my QB.

With this said, should I just go ahead and put a weak base on my TE? There goes two WR already. I could say this is like stacking. But I am sure someone will say "it is double coverage and there is nothing wrong with that". But double coverage on two WR?

I did think about having my two TE 5 yards back. Then angle them both to do a loop around. Then have a RB on the left and right of my QB to pick up the blizers coming from both sides. This might work.

Right now, I just feel I need to just focus on making a running team. If you could, I would be happy to get some pointers on this kind of play in my PM. Then I can look at putting my team together with the pointers you give me.

Thank you,
Tony

My 2 Cents
 

"When in Detroit, do as the Detroitians do." ;)

BUT....that Defense didn't win the GLEFL SuperBowl so it is beatable! IMO you gotta counter what the Offense is trying to do and if that means 4 Backs bulldozing you down the field, what's a Defense to do? Especially against FOB tackling!?! If you remember I played Jim Davis' Hulks a few years ago and ALL 11 of my defenders touched him on almost every play but they didn't get a FOB!?! So the ONLY thing to do is to let an OL or 2 or 3 fly past and try to swoop in from the sides or around the back, but you gotta have some sort of resistance to stop the push! That means the 2-2 stack: 2 DL over the OGs pushed thru with LBs 5 yards back. That creates the Anvil, and hopefully your DEs and OLBs can create the Hammer. Read "The Art of War" for more examples.

Bottom line, like it or not, thems the Rules. Practice against it and figure out how to attack it instead of posting polls. You've wasted at least an hour of quality practice time. :confused: :( :cool:

You and Pat C. shouldn't have a hard time figuring it out - he's a former undefeated Champ and you're a former regular Division winner, so stop pulling the harp strings and practice. :D

In "REAL" football...
 

You put people in the best possible position to be sucessful. If that means run a two man line then so be it. Why would any coach worth his whistle waste two defenders on every play when another team is obviously stronger? When a person plays a two man line, then the offense has to re-adjust to compensate. Besides, I am not against any rule that goes against the "strongest team, no strategy" wins theory. Just one man's opinion.

not seeing the point
 

jimbo is one of those guys that does not see my point, along with some other guys I have to play with.

You guys always answer me by telling me to beat it on the field. This is not my point. It is before you even put the rule in place. Why would you let these little figures go on their own? They do not know when to turn around and make a block or tackle. This is what my poll is really about.

I know I have to figure out how to beat it on the field. Now I am asking for some pointers now, because I am MAKING A TEAM NOW for this kind of play.

I did not waste my time, because i already got some ideas from a couple of you.

Thank you,
Tony

Funny Thing Is...
 

...NONE of my guys would run downfield even if there wasn't a single defender lined up on them. I understood your question and I do see your point. There are still a few things I don't like, BUT restricting the D to traditional mano-y-mano formations is not gonna solve anything. This is football, not Rock 'Em, Sock 'Em Robots. It's still 11-on-11 and your guys gotta get there and make the play regardless of the other guy's formation(s). AND...you have 60 WHOLE minutes to figure it out.

It's a football formation.And we are playing football.

Geno H:)

Tony you know most people in our league pass.I have wanted to DLs for years.In other tourneys people allow two DLs to.I am pretty sure The Buzzball tourney allows only two on the line.But you have to remember if you use two blitzer that makes 5 or 6 DLs.That takes away from you safty play.Plus that helps people want to run alittle bit.

In real football not all DLs are lined up in the middle.Some are outside of the OL with two in the middle.

Tony you are my boy and I am just being me.Shut the trap and play.LOL

Here are some ideas:

If the "D" isn't respecting your tackles, then make some fast ones and run the tackle eligible pass more often. I bet that will get some attention to your tackles.

Have your tackles on ITZ dials or tweaked to loop back and out.....use them to kick out that swarm of loopers coming from each side. Go 4 wide with your receivers to force your opponent to cover more and blitz less.

I don't really like the look of a "D" stacked to the outside, but it works in electric football.....so, you will see more of it. It can be beaten. Work on quick hitting runs up the middle and short passes.

A strategy divider and rules for placement of linemen and such might help...but many leagues don't use the divider.

Here's My Take
 

I think leagues have put rules in place moreso because it creates a crutch for them to compete, not to make it realistic. I am one of those who go by the philosophy of "Don't worry about what's in my lockerroom, worry about your own". To me, this means simply that if I am on defense, I should be able to run any type of defensive scheme I want. If I want to run 11 men in a straight line, that's my choice. But I think the rules should be created in a manner that does not restrict the offensive team to have to run right at "the storm". They should be able to audible into a formation that penalize the defense for blitzing in such a manner.

You can't dictate to another team that they must place a man over yours because you can't account for him. Football is all about trickery, deception, and surprise. The Zulu warriors changed the way of defensive tactics in African colonization times. They did not play according to time honored traditions of previous wars. They were the aggressor. They took chances! They surprised the opponents. Similarly, that must be done in football (I think). If I am forced to place every man over yours, it takes away elements of surprise. To me, that's the cerebral part of electric football. Like Jimbo said, you've got 60 minutes to figure it out!

As long as rules are in place that restricts either team from doing things that makes them great, the outcome is predictable. But if you allow defenses to do what they want to do and then allow offenses to counter it in a meaningful way, the game becomes very exciting. Buddy Ryan would be ********ed off right about now if he could not run the 46, or Arnsbarger would be very unhappy if he could not run the 53, etc. Air Coryell would be very upset if you told him he had to just use 2 wide outs and no other packages, or the Run and Shoot, etc.

Don't restrict the game by your play. Restrict the other team by your ability to play and execute. If you execute efficiently, the other team will be trying to create rules to handicap your team's ability.

Just another coach's perspective.

Reginald Rutledge

This is why we do it!
 

Here's the funniest part. The rules were put in place because we were BEHIND the times. It was funny to a lot of people when I played a guy in the Superbowl a few years back whose men weighed up to and over 7 full grams. My biggest man was 3.9 grams and get this:

He could virtually stack his men while I had to cover each lineman, then place my linebackers at least 10 yards off the line of scrimmage. It's amazes me that I beat him during the regular season. How Neanderthal.

Our rules are going through constant evolution because our young, innovative coaches are finally on the tournament circuit, and see a better, productive, and more exciting way to play the game. This is not about any individual, although Jimbo's analogy was on point, it's about enhancing game play and providing a level playing field for both strong or fast teams.

My lineman are athletic, AKA, the Denver Broncos. They run, not wait until someone comes in contact before they mow them down the field. Am I gonna shove everyone down the field, no! But don't slip up or it's 7 because those loose guys will pop or shield your backers and safeties. The days of just plodding along are gone in the Great Lakes. If you really take a look at the playoff stats you will notice that the real reason Jimmy made the Superbowl were twofold:

1. He constructed one helluva a fast defense, not overpowering, quick
2. He finally got off his duff and threw the ball.

Those were the two things that hindered him in previous years. Sure, he'll pummel you if you don't pay attention, So will Norb, but they got it like that.

I commend the Great Lakes and Jim Davis for EVOLVING! We will continue to look for better ways to upgrade gameplay through tournaments and equipment. We have evolved so immensely that coaches that once frowned on our rules are considering joining our league. Some have in fact.

Tony, my advice to you is to start going to the tournaments and see how the game is really played. Leagues tend to go at a slower pace. There's even small rumblings of consideration of strategy dividers down the road and that was something I USED to scoff at. However, with the ITZ effect it doesn't sound bad at all to some of us. Hopefully, our "travelers" will bring something new and innovative by attending the "Shootout". We can't stand still brother or we'll get ran over!

We have set the bar high, we vote on everything, and as always we respect your opinion and anyone else who has provided insight into this post. Welcome back to the family Tony!

Respectfully,

Ken Allen
Great Lakes EFL

Excellent points
 

Ken and Uncle Reggie makes very excellent points.

There was a time in the past that rules (or game play) was designed to stop things from happening that has been useful for a team or style.

NHFL uses what I call the double pass (TT pass to a signpost; THEN run to a spot) to give both the offense and defense a play on the ball......

You have the "turn and burn" where if you hit the receiver with the pass, you can turn him upfield and continue (burn) the play.......

the original way I learned the emulation/pass placement you could not alter the intended receiver BEFORE the sticks were placed.......

As you can see, there are many alternate ways of doing the same thing. If a team wants to press you from the outside - make them pay for it.

Look, I have my own 'dislike' in terms of the cover corner.... because most guys use their strongest TTC base on that player to lock down your WR. When they first came out, most of your WR were on rookie bases. I have said in the past that the playing field should level and the cover-corner should be on a rookie base, too. However, my way of thinking on this was fine, but limited. Since then, most WR are now on TTC (or prolines) to match the defense.

Take the time to develop your "gameplan" for those opponents who want to run 2 DL at you.

Hey Tony,

I understand what you are sayin, man. I too agree with you on this, but as you can see I and many others also tend to play unconventional D. If the rules cause for you to play a conventional D, then play conventional. If the rule set allows for the D to be unconventional then take advantage of that flexibilty. All in all, Reg hit the nail on the head when he wrote:

"Don't restrict the game by your play. Restrict the other team by your ability to play and execute. If you execute efficiently, the other team will be trying to create rules to handicap your team's ability".

Please listen to the advice that some of these coaches have provided. The advice provided by coaches like FrustratedFinFan, Jimbo and a few others are right on point. You don't have to like it or agree with it, just adjust to it.

-Adrian-
:) :) :D :) :)

Mr.Michigan
 

Fellas,
This is a good post! The BMEFA is currently analyizing this very issue. Back in the day both the Offense and Deffense had to have seven men on the line of scrimmage. Once people learn to tweak their bases and develpoe their teams strengths and weakness the whole spectra of play begin to change.One suggestion from me is to bait the rascle if he doesn't cover your linemen! Adjust their base so that they drop back or curve left or right to form a pocket for your QB. You can set their dials to come in to the center and block for the sweep outside or the romp up the middle. I know how your thinking, but what I'm learning is these guys are serious about these games and our traditional thinking is getting cooked at that line of scrimmage. We have to start thinking out of the box. We have to develope what I call "TRICKERY". Just hang in there and use this to your advantage. One last serious note to everybody. Many have seen an alternate style of play. That style helps to elimanate many of these age old problems we keep coming up with. So buy yourself a big board. Paint up your best teams. Buy yourself some bases and tweak them. Once you've done that, put some weight under those joints and turn your boards up!!! Tron has spoken:cool:

The Evolution of the Game
 

As athletes get better, the game evolves. I look at an athlete as the figure plus base = athlete. In the 70's and 80's, the game was definitely restricted to what you had. But as bases became better and players were enhanced, the game changed.

In 2000's, the game has changed even moreso. You are blessed with a wealth of talent pool from ITZs, Diamond Bases, Miggle Bases, to various figures such as ITZ, Miggle, SIW, FF.COM. The key is to create/recruit the type of athlete that makes your team what you want it to be.

My experience tells me that it is not just the base that makes an athlete. It is not just the figure that makes the athlete. It's the combination of the two. The rules dictate how ones team may be created and it determines the type of restrictions you may put on your athlete. It also creates an opportunity for specialist, meaning athletes who are designed specifically to combat strong onrushing linemen. Or speed rushers who are naturally leaning in and combined with a certain base may cause major disruptions to the other team.

Now, with such innovation and creativity for defensive and offensive schemes, I think your leauges should never limit or restrict itself to the nonegagement of trickery and deception. It just takes your game to another level. It forces you to be creative which in turn keeps the game interesting.

So embrace the evolution of your league and take heed to rules that work. SweetKA (Ken Allen) made an interesting point about the traveling people in his league wanting to come and not just compete but to also learn.

There are things that I learned at the BAMA Blast when I played there that I still incorporate into the DFW League. There are things that I learned in the Alamo City EFL, and the MWEFL, and at the Seawall Brawl that can be of benefit to us eveolving the game here in the DFW League.

I hope Brian Healey is reading this post because I need his help in the area of speed. I know some things but want to learn everything. Healey's got information which could help us eveolve the game in the DFW area.

So, my point is to heed what guys are saying. PM some who you think are willing to show you things that may make that other team want to change rules to stop your efficiency.

Good topic Tony! Keep that passion.
Reg

No Defensive Lineman
 

Mr. Michigan,

That's one of the draw backs in playing the one stop, pitch, pass or run in today's Electric Football. If you examine closely all rule sets around the country, you will discover that there's really no major change in style of play. One stoppage and go! Players both offensively and defensively cannot REACT to what's happening on the field after the snap of the ball! They have to be in perfect position before the snap.

MARK MY PERDICTIONS:

Figures on a Swivel and the Multi-Stop System is the future of Electric Football!

There are too many guys in Electric Football who have a Football Mind in terms of X's and O's who feel restricted by the rule set with the One-Stop Pitch or Pass. Do you know that there are people coming back into our hobby after seeing the One-Stop and the Muti-Stop are choosing the Multi-Stop System of play? It's more fun, more hands-on, more cerebral!

So, Mr.Michigan, don't feel you're all alone. There are others who feel your pain. Your day will come!

Smitty

History Repeats Itself
 

Looking at this from an historic POV: Didn't the British Army lineup in straight lines and only fire when their commanding officer gave the order? And didn't they get spanked by the Revolutionaries trained in (French) Guerrilla warfare - ambushes and traps and TRICKERY!?!?!?!?!?!

Don't get me wrong, I do like ya dude and still think one of my Top 10 best games was against your Georgia BULLDOGS at AJ's College Tourney #2 or #3. Remember our triple OT? Or was it quadruple? So I know you have game. That's why I don't get all the whining. Bring your "A" game and leave the drama for all the baby mamas! :cool: Besides all the stuff your (our) leaguemates are throwing at you, you'll be more than able to play well, unless you want us to play for you too!?! :D

I understand
 

Smitty is right !!!
 

Chip Block
 

If you can train those backs correctly they can be angled to chip block on those outside rushers 0 knocking them off their path and then slide free to become receivers - similar to screens.

TE's can be used in a similar manner.

Also - a circle route with your backs or even a wheel route.

never like how many dl to have
 

I have never like these rules about how many dl to have come on if I want to rush 7 so what handle it.One of the problems why I havent played in a league in years is that the rules dont really make sense!! To me is always been a problem!! Just my 2 cents!!:(

ONLY 2 RULES ON DEFENSIVE SETUP
 

1. No more than 11 players are allowed on the field after the Defensive Coach says "set." (Offense choice of 5yds or result of play)
2. All defenders must maintain at least a one yard neutral zone - base and body - from the LOS. (Offense choice of 5yds or result of play)

Whatever style is played, these 2 would cover them all, I think. ;) Stack, 2-man DL, 10-1, whatever YOU wanna do on D is YOUR prerogative. :nhnh:

And no magnets allowed on metal fields to hold your guys in place unless it's a Penalty when the other team runs into you.

MR. MICHIGAN, DEFENSE HAS FREE RANGE TO DO WHATEVER
 

MR. MICH


i CAN ONLY SUGGEST if you see that kind of lineup, run the ball behind the unblocked olineman. The defense has a free pass to run whatever stunt they wan't against the offense. REMEBER THE DALLAS FLEX DEFENSE MANY YEARS AGO. Recently, bill belichek and the patriots ran a scheme where there were NO men on thw defensive line. No matter what style you play, the defense can do pretty much what it wan'ts. JOIN THE MPFL FOR SOME SERIOUS READ AND REACT'S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MANTARAYDRE