Question of the Day: Would you let a Guy Back in Who...
 

has burned you over and over again into your league?

I believe in forgiveness and I am a proud Christian. Sometimes, I don't always do whats right but I try to be an example as the leader of my family of living a righteous life is.

But I also know, guys tend to try to "run over" those who do not confront them with the same ferocity that they were attacked by. In this game, we've got all kinds of characters and no one is perfect. However, we all love to play the game. That's probably why you are reading this pose.

But in the past, I have played in leagues, offered tournaments, and done other things and have allowed guys back into things even after outlandish behavior on their part. Those guys would have a certain influence on some guys who would then cave in to them and try to get the group as a whole to "side" with them, only to see history repeat itself. They would weave their web where they think no one knows what's going on or is looking but forgive me, I am usually pretty wise to things of that nature. I am pretty analytical. I see things way before it come to past.

The problem most of the time, at least for me, is that what that guy brings to the table is misery and a cancerous effect. There are some who bring positives like service/work and stability. In either case, do you allow those guys back in.

My feelings are this is suppose to be fun for me. If I feel I am apart of a group that brings no good vibes to me, why am I wasting their time? I don't want to spoil it for anyone else with my bad feelings about the situation and if the group wants this person to be apart of it, who am I to stop the group? Time is so essential to the rest of my days on this earth that I have no interest in being uncomfortable in any kind of way.

What are your thoughts on this?

Reg

No
 

Wouldn't accept them back into the league.......unless you needed them to get to a certain number or something like that.


Nat'l

No...
 

I agree with National. Perhaps you can have whoever it is involved in an observatory roll to see if the character of this individual has changed. Otherwise, If you're the commissioner you have a duty to protect the integrity and the welfare of your league and its members.

I too am a Christian but forgiveness is in the heart not in believing that you can now leave your money around a known thief without supervision! I hope that picture wasn't to vivid.

I agree that many people can change and everyone deserves a second chance i.e. Michael Vick. However, the difference is that Vick paid his debt to society. What debt has this previous member paid? Has he/she served the league in a compacity since being banned that would warrant them deserving a 2nd opportunity? Has he/she called and made a formal apology? Seriously, I believe it is a privelege to play in a league amongst such great men and women, fathers and mothers. We must learn to appreciate that fact and if others can't learn to respect that then it is extremely important to remove them from the process before their ways spread like cancer throughout the league.

I would rather have a bye week than play a game against a jerk. Life is too short, and I'm doing this for fun and recreation, not to be a missionary.:rnt;

I say, tell them to "hit the bricks"!!:zmmz:

imo you get one strike. If after the first strike the offending person does it again...

Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.

Roller, I am in...
 

such agreement with you on that that it's not funny.

Mike hit on something very good too. It is a privilege to be able to play this game. For the most part, we've got guys of very high character who play this game - family men, good husbands and fathers, men of the Cloth, service oriented people. It is a privilege to be able to be among good men AND WOMEN who play the game and enjoy their company.

Roller shares my view in oh so many ways. I was talking to Mike Robertson earlier in the week (one of those private moments) and he talked about when I lose interest in arguing or being frustrated, I just quit now.

I am a lot like Roller in this way that I will look at it as a "Bye" week. I have no time for jerks either and I see no reason to be a missionary for poor behavior from 50, 40, and 30 year olders no more. Just don't have the time or interest. If that person has been voted to be a part of a league I am in, I would probably not play the guy or at first argument or "whine", I am done.

Reg

In or out
 

Just because you are a Christian doesn't mean you are a doormat. We're called to love the person and hate the sin. Did Jesus stay in the towns that didn't accept Him? No, He moved on. Why? Because it was a waste of time to preach to people that wouldn't accept it anyway. He would go to towns that accepted Him and let him work miracles in their lives. The same was true with the disciples. You can love the person and reach out to them but that doesn't mean you have to constantly be annoyed by them. If you are reaching 10-12 people on a weekly basis and one person shows up and ruins the time you have with those people what do you do? Explain the rules, explain what is expected and if they don't follow that explain where the door is. "But you're a Christian you can't throw people out." If they are stopping the good that you are doing yes you can. You don't stop loving the person and you continue to be there for them but you can't let them stop your work. Plus, when you stand up to them and tell them the rules they won't like it BUT they'll come back because deep down they know it's what they need.

RAIDERMAN

I am curious...
 

OK - you guys went and opened Pandoras Box here!!!

What do you guys consider behavior worthy of banishment?

I have a couple of my own pet peeves - but wondering just exactly what are some of you basing your position on?

Not paying dues?

Not helping ref?

Constantly arriving late - holding other coaches "hostage"?

Constantly arguing every call against them?

Signing up but never completing schedule?

Not returning phone calls, emails or texts?

My opinion on Artax's list of possible infractions...
 

Not paying dues? No dues=no play. This is a non-starter. In my mind, this is easily prevented. You can't play until you pay. BUT, in light of this thread, this one would definitely be cause to be kicked out. If you don't pay your electric bill you really can't expect to have the lights stay on...;)

Not helping ref? This is just annoying, but I wouldn't banish anyone.

Constantly arriving late - holding other coaches "hostage"? This is grounds for getting kicked out. People spend too much time and $$ to get stood up. If your date did this to you, would you keep making dates with them?

Constantly arguing every call against them? YES. I would ask them not to come back on this action. This type of behaviour doesn't make for a good time, plus it has a real impact on others. If they constantly argue the call, this wastes everyone's time. Every minute this jerk takes up arguing means one less minute to get a game in for someone else.

Signing up but never completing schedule? This may be annoying, but it really only hurts the person who can't finish.

Not returning phone calls, emails or texts?
Again, annoying, but probably not worthy of banishment in my book.

yeah what Dave said
 

The arguing every call is the one....if you can not see your self losing and you will do anything to keep that from happening, and I do mean anything..it's time to move on.

The other things are bad, but can be fixed or helped.

And it all starts with paying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Nat'l

Now see...
 

Sorry, but these three are totally related.

And this has been a huge problem in at least one league in which I take part.


Guys arrive on time waiting to play - then hours later other coach(es) arrives or now show - even though they knew and confirmed start time.

Not cool at all and hurts all involved.

Commish tries to find out if a guy is coming using EVERY available means of communication - no answer - like they fell off the face of the earth!!!

Man-up and return the call or email or text (like Vince Young) at least - No is ok.

Commish sets up a schedule (not always definite dates) which commits teams to play other teams and then play dates roll around and a team or two is a no show, no call, etc - definitely hurting other coaches who want to play and had been scheduled to play that coach.

Again if you don't really want to play or can't - then don't say yes, yes and then disappear like Hofa!

I see what you mean...
 

I was looking at this from our league's perspective. We don't have a set schedule. If they sign up to play, but never schedule a game, it doesn't really hurt any of our coaches. It just means their are less teams to pool from. At the end of the day, it means that in the future they don't make my priority list;)

Them not calling back in the context of standing someone up is not cool. In our league it is counted as a forfeit. I would stand by my commissioner if they booted them for continued no-shows. If they just don't call back or answer emails about general league votes, game days, availability, then I just say, "forget you".

DR

Well...
 

my experiences have shown me not for everyone and it certainly has affected coaches and their desire to play (I speak from experience) and a leagues' ability to have a complete schedule. :(

Forgiveness
 

I have been burned by people enough times in my life to say NO FORGIVENESS.$cch$

Reg we have spoken about this also off-line....I think it's funny especially some of the replies.....People as a whole will not change for any long periods of time....Behavior specialists have proven this.....Short Term they will change but eventually they will revert back.......

Soooo with that STOP CREATING MONSTERS....

People will only do what you ALLOW them to do....that is what I live by...and when i get tired of the nonsense I get rid of the problem......no matter what relation they are to me.....Life is Too short.......

Personaly, I think a jerk will stay a jerk no matter you'll do :D

No matter the hobby or sport, if I have to deal with this type of person, 1st problem : I stay calm, 2nd problem, I quit, simply as that, and never play with the guy again.

As it has been said, life is too short and precious to deal with that.

The thing I notice reading your topics and posts, is that the game is very competition oriented in your country. I rarely see (except for solitaire play) game reports of friendly games.

We come back to the definition of the hobby structure : "league" against "club", if you see what I mean.

In my opinion, any MF organization should have friendly games regularly during the season. Playing with friends, instead of playing against opponents. Fees only for the gaming structure needs. Refunds at the end of the season if the money has not been spent. That kind of things.

Once you put money on something, a lot of guys will think they deserve something, since they paid, and don't remember that playing MF with other passionate people is a chance. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about, it's so hard to find people involved in my aera.

In one word, hard rules and frontiers in competition playing, freedom and friendship in fridenly gaming, and no money (or the less possible) an no business in every case.


My 2 cents ;)

Hey Dimitri...
 

...one of our own BAM Coaches - Joe Greco - plays "friendlies" all the time.

In fact he just played one on the west coast that was televised on the internet.

Joe fits these in during his business travels.

One of the top coaches and best guys in the country.

shkthbx: shkthbx: shkthbx:

Question of the Day
 

I tend to agree with Raiderman :eeeek: which is scary...

Letting this person back into an established league where guys are following a code of conduct as a step 1 isn't probably the wisest thing.

Hate the sin, love the sinner. On the other hand as RM said, be there to help this person back into a position where people can see a change that goes beyond words. Perhaps this means organizing a small event for this person to play in and see how they act there when the rubber hits the road or under adversity. If the person is seeking a path - it may not be the path that they want but as a Christian I do believe in helping people find a path to redemption and stepping alongside when they're asking for help.

ummm
 

HeLL No!

Don't do it....

Another NO NO Never talk a guy into playing a season. If their desire isn't their it will get worse as the season moves on.

Love ya like a play cousin, but you can't play cousin..

Agree

It's true that compared to say, Subbuteo, you don't see a lot of friendlies (or "scrimmages" as we call them) in electric football. Part of it I think is the length of the game. If you are going to invest 2 hours in a real game, may as well count it for something.

But at tournaments and during league play, when a couple coaches aren't scheduled to be on the board, you will usually see them running plays against each other in scrimmages, sometimes as a means to test and tweak bases as they go along. These can be valuable sessions as long as they are seen for what their intended purposes is and not something greater.

I know for the next league(s) I play in, I'm going to want to play some preseason scrimmages just to get the feel of the rules, get to know the coaches (if I haven't played with them before), etc.

But you're right, it's a valuable tool that I think sometimes we don't take enough advantage of.

Ed wnnrcgr shkthbx: $br#

Well . . .
 

When I look at this post I think of first Will Shropshire, Frank Johnson, then Tom from Minneapolis who played in the Great Lakes and honored their commitment.

I think of some of the times when I was a total ---hole and I can think of times when others were worse but it was okay because I was the one with the "history".

I'd like to say I changed but actually I conformed. But people sometimes refuse to see how far you have come because the dye has been cast.

I guess what I am saying is if a person is trying to do better, in my case the electric slide, then acknowledge it instead of battering them with the past. If they don't try to do better then put the foot to em.

As far as not showing, showing up late, etc. we all have been on both ends of the stick. Follow your established policies and procedures. Sure, the whining will come but if you turn a deaf ear then they will have the choice of conforming or not. That way, you can surely say, without a doubt, that this person made the choice to not conform making it their own decision to discontinue.

I believe that no one should be denied the right to play, and your rules, procedures, with circumstances/consequences should reflect that in such a way that this question won't be necessary.

Just my thoughts.

absolutelly no way
 

i believe that most coach's that play miniature football are very good people,theres always some that rub some the wrong way,nobodies perfect ,but if you love mf and your league like i do ,shallow minded individuals would be better off playing solitaire. just my two cents.