TWEAKING Enemy or Savior?
 

Yes....... this subject started on another thread ............so in an attempt to stop the hijacking of that thread I have started this one.

I understand the frustration of having to #1. purchase or #2. fight through the learning curve of tweaking your own bases. Both have a cost.

#1. Purchase = Money
#2. Tweaking = Time

My point is you here statements like "Tweaked bases are ruining the hobby" To that I say what? TWEAKED BASES are why we can play at the level we do! Imagine trying to show new people our hobby today WITHOUT tweaked bases!!!!!!!!!!!



I for one see tweaking as the savior of the hobby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:twkr: :twkr: :twkr: :twkr: :twkr: :twkr:

As to sharing tweaking information I am an open book.......there are coaches out there that I have spent countless hours with on the phone "sharing" in detail what I do.

Many of us want to share but as hard as it is to tweak it is every bit as hard to write it down in detail what we do.

Just as in the Painting/customizing info shared it is basic as well. I mean you cant read a basic sculpting guide and then put out a masterpiece....the first one is so so the tenth one is better and so on and so forth.

Take the basics that are out there and go ruin some bases!!!!!!!!!! and before long you will be tweaking up a storm. Yes all of us that tweak have RUINED a TON of bases.
Geno H

I hear ya!
 

I recently decided to give a shot at tweaking bases. The first ones were terrible. I still mess up most of what I'm doing, but I'm starting to get the hang of why things are working or not working. I wouldn't want to play this game if it weren't for tweaked bases. It's how you condition and coach your team!!

I thought I would hate it, but now I like itthmbsp$ thmbsp$ thmbsp$

no doubt it will frustrate some new people who just got into the hobby and it is possible they will quit, but tweaking is a must if you like good game play and you want to break that old stereotype that all the men do is "turn in circles."

Mark

Definite savior
 

If it wasnt for base tweaking, i honestly do not believe this game would have kept my interest.

enemy and savior
 

frstplc savior frstplc for us cause we can take these figures to different levels and tailor the team to our liking with speed/strength at positions we want.drl$$ drl$$
AND ITS FUN TO SEE YOUR MAN LIGHTNINGING DOWN THE FIELD (howyalikethatword?) ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU TWEAKED THE BASEfrstplc frstplc frstplc frstplc frstplc frstplc frstplc frstplc frstplc frstplc

I just wish there were a way to have bases that run straight, bout 30-50 yards, right out the box and on the field. Newbies (mainly kids seeing the game for the first time) dont care about strength yet. They like the speed, but as long as everyone runs straight, they are happy.drl$$ drl$$

If we could have bases like these for the beginner, the hobby would have a following for the days after us. Then, as they become more interested, they can pick the University of their choice and major in any of the intricate aspects of our hobby. But for now, FOR THEM, we need elementary school type bases that they can use and perfect in their middle school and High school Miniature Football education.
As it now, we have a lotta school drop outs who wont get a chance to do something in life (Miniature Football life ofcourse;) :rtfl: ).

BUT US, WITH OUR HOBBY MASTERS AND PHD'S, sure, we will continue to have fun and do our best to teach others.

But what happens when we are gone?:(

[quote=HOOP;138836]


I just wish there were a way to have bases that run straight, bout 30-50 yards, right out the box and on the field. Newbies (mainly kids seeing the game for the first time) dont care about strength yet. They like the speed, but as long as everyone runs straight, they are happy.drl$$ drl$$


QUOTE]



There is a way .........It only takes MONEY. I will gaurntee you it is possible!!!!

Money is the only thing holding me back.


Geno H

It has helped
 

Geno I want to hear your thoughts on 3 fords going 1,2,3 in the big race, and a 20yr old winning it! Wow....Sorry to hijack the post that hijacked another post! mgngcrz :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: Start something in the non MF

Having played in the non tweaked era (BT) Before Tweaking and seeing the effects of tweaking. It really balanced the playing field. What also helps is that the new plastic and newer bases could actually compete with the more older and rare stuff of years past. So together it has helped the hobby.

It is still discouraging when you play a coach that has superior strength over you and uses it...over, and over, over again. Then they throw out some huge dollar amount for the bases or some similar.

How can you buy a pack of bases for $8 then turn around and charge $8-$20 per base after tweaking them? How can you put a price on another mans time?
I always tell guys to try it yourself. Maybe buy one from the pros as a tester, and then go against it.
Plan your own combine parties....No games, just a couple of boards and bring your tools with you. Order some food, turn on the boom box and tweak. You never know what tips you may come across. It's like working out, it's always better with some friends.

And remember, Tweaking is only 1 part of the process. You can have a monster base, but you have to have it on the right figure to maximize it's potential. Then you need the right board, running at the right speed. And finally you have to know how to coach what you have.
So there are at least 4 parts that go into having a winning experience.

But to answer Geno's question: It's both!!!!


Nat'l

My Tweak Outlook
 

Unlike any other aspect of the hobby, base tweaking is essential. Let’s face it. Hobbyists don’t have to paint, sculpt, detail figures, make videos or build stadiums to play this hobby. Hobbyists must tweak their bases or have someone tweak for them to play. “Untweaked” bases could result in erratic team performance. Having said that, base tweaking is the foundation of the hobby.

Although I have never ruined bags of bases, like some guys talk about; I have ruined some. If I had to say an exact number, I would say I ruined about twelve bases. I have learned from those mistakes. I learned to not be so bold in handling the base for the first time. Start small as you begin to tweak. I am in the middle of working on my next video. I will try to make a video depicting my approach to tweaking.

Maurice
The Electric Coach

Think of it this way Corey.....if we bought bags of 12 tweaked bases for $12right from the Manufacturer at retail. Stay with me now.....out of that 12
there were 2 that were BEASTS fast and strong. So you the National one start thinking if I buy 20 bags of bases I will have a roster of 40 BEASTS. Get my point???? That race will always be there.

Geno H

To me there's 2 kinds of tweaking. There's basic tweaking, where you basically do what you can to get a base to move where you want it to. And then there's competition tweaking, which is mostly about all out power and speed. From the remark that 'tweaking is ruining the hobby' I would venture to guess that a person who would say such a thing is probably stuck in an arms race with their fellow league mates and isn't winning very often. It would be very easy to say enough is enough and want to leave.

It's sort of like drag racing. Not everyone has what it takes to keep up with the top fuel alkie dragsters out there. But there is just as much fun in street stock racing. Sure, you may not be burning 10 second quarter miles, but dialing in at 15.07 and hitting it on the head 4 times in a row has it's own rewards.

So it is with tweaking. Everyone should learn how to do the basic pinch and pulls needed to be able to straighten out a base that is turning small circles. They can have just as much fun playing against others that also do basic tweaks. It's trying to keep up with the Jones' out there that can be frustrating.

just look some videos
 

As long as you do as some artists says about twaking, it should'nt been a problem.


That's my 2 cents


Benster

[quote=Geno H;138837]Actually thats all i need, and its what i try to achieve when I tweak, and thats just to get the bases to run straight for about 30 yds. With the MPFL system, straight running bases is all thats required.

there is no magic tweak tool and thats all i got to say on this matter.:twkr: :fghttt:

Off track slightly, but the best bases I've seen that run pretty straight and fast without having to do anything to them is the Miggle rookie strong bases with a flat front. I have quite a few on my teams that I did nothing but mount them up and away they went. Also, the new Miggle rookie bases work really well with just a slight pinch on the prongs. I was shocked at the speed and straightness I was able to get out of the last batch I ordered. You have to trim the extra plastic flare off of them, but other than that they are a great base that doesn't take a great tweaker to be happy with. thmbsp$ thmbsp$ thmbsp$ thmbsp$

Geno one of my first tweaking sessions was with you and Flynt
 

in Kansas City was it 05 or 06 NEFL Playoffs and you shared your wisdom freelythmbsp$ :twkr: I am still here and was inspired to continue to get taught more about the art of base tweaking by other greats. remember the round tip tweezers:dohdh: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:

Here's a thought
 

Back in '08 when I purchased that ill fated 620 from Miggle, it arrived with a DVD. That DVD was very basic, more like an introduction to the hobby, but it showed very basic playing and tweaking techniques (and I mean basic). It was enough for me to get my figures running decently. It also showed passing and various formations. I'd probably laugh at it's simplicity compared to the real tweaking I've seen and learned over the last couple of years but it got me started! Perhaps a more advanced DVD or accessible video discussing how tools could help would go a long way in helping the beginner or intermediate hobbyist. Something that has a somewhat professional feel to it like Miggle's DVD. Make it free and/or downloadable for all. Perhaps working with Miggle to include it with their boards. Guys that use EF with kids can pop in the DVD and work along side the kids in using tweaking techniques.

If we want our hobby to be taken seriously then we have to help present it in a serious manner. ppls$

What say you all?

:twkr: :twkr: :twkr: :twkr:

Tweaking 101
 

Having been one od the piooneers of the Tweaking age of EF, it is a simple process that requires time and patience to achive "players" at the end of the process.

tweaking a base is more than what is being applied.... you have to treat each base as a new beginning... a new player that has yet to be developed...
... care must taken to use the right "tweaking disipline" for the base you are about to start...

... okay let's say you have all of the tools available

- Narrow pliers
- wide pliers
- candle warmer
- lighter or torch
- sand paper (lots of grades and styles)

now let's check the bases that you are about to start...

... Miggle color TTC
... Super Prolines
... DDB
... NON miggle color TTc
... rookies
... red pegs
... r/l's

Well, you are not going to use the same tweak style for each type of base, you need to do things a little differently for each....

next thing to keep in mind.... you can use the same figure to tweak a base with to gain some experience with the process, but always tweak for the player you will have on the field and what functions you want him to carry out... THIS IS A MUST

Sorry about starting a fire!
 

But here's my thoughts. When I do business I have guys send me their players. Then I tweak them to their specifications. No marks, initials, insignias or cartoon charactors that I wish I were. For those who are willing to pay for the time I put into it there are no complaints.

The tools only work if you work them that's why my post was titled the way it was. I found a tool that worked, for me, on SP's. I never stated that there was a "magic" tweak tool. They are all magic when used properly. I spoke on that tool for the excellence it brought to my table, my board. Of course, we must all truly beware of those that have a vested interest with insuring SP's are not tweaked to compete with first runs.

I have nothing financial to gain nor lose by tweaking SP's to a level for people who are learning the hobby. I just believe more people will join the hobby at lower cost.

Now tweaking is a godsend. Finally coming out of the bobble-tango is the first thing that comes to mind right along with customizing. The biggest problem is see now is not tweaking but a guy not being able to compete with a stock team as teams are customized with "tree branches" to stop receivers by wrapping their limbs around their heads or sticking out so far sideways to get up under the hook in the arm.

Vince came to Miggle with a "MAGIC" tweak tool that is no longer magic because he selflessly allowed others to find tools to duplicate it and it works. Karim saw to that with his blessing. People seemed, to me, afraid to stand toe to toe with this guy and tweak like I did on that program from the Miggle Convention. Tweaking rocks but you have to be patient. Each base took about a half hour to tweak and then a touch up the next day. Nothing was done in five minutes.

Just my thoughts.

:rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:

Scrubs!
 

and you know it! :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:

That's when you can't tweak and that's all you can do! thmbsp$ thmbsp$

:rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:

I knew it would become SP vs First Run.......................All I can say to that is BULL!#$%^(*& They are what they are no matter how many times its said or who says it.
:confused: :confused: Who seems to be "afraid" Because I will garuntee IT AINT ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

There is no "MAGIC" tool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :fghttt: :fghttt: :fghttt: :fghttt: :fghttt: :fghttt: :fghttt: :fghttt:

Geno H

Geno what are you talking about?
 

The thought is to improve the SP's to the best of their abilities. I have never seen or spoke on your abilities so why would that apply to you? My discussion is on improving a product not being concerned with SP vs First Run. It's expensive vs inexpensive. Whatever they are I will embrace anyone that can make them better and not self serving haters. By the way dude, what are you mad and want to fight about. And you should be confused.

FYI In Michigan and in the Great Lakes SP's are already being tweaked and playing in Championship games in great numbers. Just go to the trade forum and see how many of Norberts star players were SP's.

Get the facts straight. Its First Run And SP's to real pro tweakers!

YOU BROUGHT IT UP KEN NOT ME. GO BACK AND REREAD YOUR POST.


By the way I know all about SP's I have all the facts I need here at FORT G-FORCE. I had them at Miggle on my team I had all runs all over my team.



GENO H

Here's what I know about tweaking.

I'm horrible at it.

Any base that runs well is an accident.

Any TTC that is strong, probably came that way because I didn't do it.

I've watched people do it - I've seen the final results on the base, and used that as a guide to try and duplicate.

In the immortal words of Mike Singletary ... "CAN'T DO IT!"

I do the best I can with what I got. I'm not sure it matters what tool I used, or what base I used - believe me, I've tried a bunch.

If someone did a significant tweaking DVD, I'd be the first in line to get it.

Ed wnnrcgr shkthbx: $br#

Your interpretation buddy!
 

and opinion. You are entitled to that.

Reread my post. All of them. No one had that tool and it works.

Just that simple to me. I embrace knowledge.

You hold the Fort! :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:

:rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:

"CAN'T DO IT!" :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:
i LOVE THAT LINE FROM HIM.

Thanks Roo for a good laugh man, that was needed. thmbsp$ thmbsp$

Roo to the rescue.... LOL...
 

...again you make me laugh; thanks, this thread needed that:rtfl:

Thats fine Ken you seem to bounce back and forth from the tool to the SP vs 1st run comment I cant keep up...................If ya want my opinion and truly its all about savings the 5th run currently sold by Miggle is just as competetive as the more expensive SP.;)


Geno H

Now thats funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: Thanks Roo!!!!!!!!


Geno H

Basics
 

For me, tweaking is just another side of the hobby. Like painting, customizing, or playing. You can like it or not, tweak or not it's a part of it.

The thing newcomers have to understand, is that you don't need top notch tools, 1st run-whatever 10-20usd/base to tweak decent bases to have fun and good play.

My own tools setup cost me about maybe 15-20USD. A pair of pliers found in a hardware store, some 400grit sandpaper, a cliper and a big kitchen lighter. The bases I use : anything available on the market (with a preference for buzzball products).

My best bases are around 4seconds/100yards, running straight, on a 42" custom board. My average bases (not as reliable as my best ones) can run the 40yards in less than 2seconds. My strongest bases are a way stronger than my fast bases.


Of course, finally I'd probably be mashed up on a "pro" tournament with the best tweakers, playing the game for years with top rare bases and "secret tools and technics". But it's suficient to play the game for me.


Tweaking is one of the "weapons" of the best MF players for sure. I also believe that tweaking basics are necessary to really embrace the hobby.

But I also beleive that you don't necessary need to be a tweaking master or spend hundreds of dollars to make good games and have fun.

If competition is a problem, simply create major and minor leagues. In slot car racing, it exists for ages. Some of the racers use complex cars, with $$$ and technical experiences, some others ones just buy a car and run it on the track.

Simply keep that in mind for our hobby devellopement.

Tweaking
 

Well said Dimitri.

Very well said French Guy
 

I could not agree with you more, French Guy, and I wish I could get guys that fast and strongthmbsp$

All some of us are trying to say here is that in order to grow the hobby, bring in new people, especially young people who don't have a close relative to mentor them at home, we must make what The French Guy is saying common knoledge.

Most people who stumble across this site or seek it out because they 'used' to play MF, because Santa just left a new board under the Christmas tree, or whatever brings them here, will not understand from a quick look around that

a) basic tweaking is essential to a good a experience whether you tweak bases yourself or buy them at a reasonable price, and yes, both tweaked bases and tweaking tools can be bought for a very reasonable price.

b) just about ANY member here is more than willing to discuss the hobby, give out FREE samples, advice, and coaching to new members WHO SEEK IT OUT.

c) this hobby can be enjoyed at ANY level of competition, and in multiple ways when it comes to skills; tweaking, painting, molding, sculpting, decaling, ..........................

All we need to do as a group is organize ourselves in such a way so that the individual who drops by the MFCA web page doesn't take a quick look around and 'check out' becuase the first things they see are $300 custome teams, and boards, or disucssions about tweaking and other skills that they cannot begin to comprehend. Don't jump me now, there is nothing wrong with any of those things they are just not what the new comer needs to see to get them hooked on this hobby. They will seek those things out on their own once they are involved at the basic/begginer level. We have to make sure that happens or MF will die a slow death as we all get older and pass on ourselves.

Other teachers out there back me up on this please: No one will ever stay focused on, let alone interested in, anything they cannot quickly comprehend and envision themselves doing, doesn't matter what it is MF, algebra, religion, politics, or whatever. To make it worse, if they can envision themselves here, being an MF'er, and then get the first impression that they don't have the resources, knowledge or money to do it they are gone, probably for good.

I am a good example. When I stumbled on to this sight last fall through my eight year old's discovering my old Tudor board in the basement I NEVER would have jumped in if I had just visited the sight and looked around. I was interested enough to actually post a quesiton or two. Several people responded and I got in touch with Tom and Mike and the rest is history.

The porblem is that most people will not do what I did; reach out to 'a bunch of crazy adults playing a kids game.' When visitors come to our sight we have maybe five minutes to hook'em or they're probably gone. And, at any given time there are usually more guests than members on line; look for yourself when you log on.

This would not be a very hard thing to accomplish in my humble opinion. So, without sounding pushy, arrogant, or condisending, I'm very sincere in this: BOD guys, let's do it!

Perhaps I'm nieve but that's my final two (probably more like ten) cents worth.

I hope I've explained myself well and not offended anyone.

I simply enjoy tweaking and getting better at it. I think it's fun to try different "stuff"...I should probably enjoy practicing passing more if I want to increase my wins:)

BEST POINT
 

By far one of the most important points to consider in reference to tweaking.thmbsp$ thmbsp$

My POV!
 

This hobby still has too many guys who want to be "right" instead of what's right for the hobby. To much convo on who's right about tweaking...not enough on how to incorporate "tweaking" into the experience of newbies or those that don't have the talent.

I noticed no one commented on my post on a DVD (or something) for people to learn how to tweak. The conversation continued going down the path that it did. My point is not about comments on my input but about NO FRIGGIN SOLUTIONS!

If the amount of energy spent going back and forth on topics, chest thumping, and those determining who's ways/products/tools are the best (or not) and more energy were spent on how can we enhance the hobbyist experience then perhaps we can get somewhere in moving "our thing" (spoken in a mafioso dialect :rtfl: ) forward.

I do agree with Dmitri's point though. :)


D

Ready to join the website committee? I loved what you had to say! You are exactly right about the 5 minutes....I have been harping on that over and again. The problem has been getting people to actually do something at this level. Could use any help you are willing to give. Call me or email me to discuss...weirdwolf@weirdwolf.net 8168910802

MY POV
 

There is a ton of info,plenty of info on BASIC TWEAKING. We have done it to death and everyone keeps asking for it over and over and over.........Its all here ................maybe it just needs to be packaged better. It isnt that we dont have the info to share iTS THAT WE DONT SHARE CORRECTLY WHAT WE HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We will only retain a certain percentage of people introduced to this hobby no matter what we do. Retaining shouldnt be the focus necessarily......but INTRODUCING IT TO MORE PEOPLE. We are fishing the ocean with a spidermans kid fishing pole......when we need to be in a fishing ship with a gigantic net.


Said in a very loving caring voice.

Geno H

it could happen and has happened
 

as far as putting tweaking on DVD... it has happened and could happen again.

The one thing about the whole thing is that some of us get $$ for this knowledge of tweaking and even though it's available for anyone to do - some will still be better than others just like painting and etc. And some will still want $$ for the knowledge............

on the MFCA video, I did a short tweak on a base and you could see the results, but that is not enough to go over all the little things one would do while working on 1 base to get it right. A DVD of those thinks would be boring to the general public but GOLD to someone wanting to "get it".....

k-lo

That's my point Geno. I agree with you that the info is available. Let's focus on packaging it for new people. Let's focus on getting a bigger net. :D

I think Drk is saying what many have said over the years. What if you're new and don't know nuthin'. Let's make it easier for them.

AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Let me know what you need from me ..........I'll help in anyway I can.


Geno H