Weight 3.2,4.0 or unlimited, which do u prefer?
 

Hey my EF/MF brethren
I have been blessed to be exposed to a few things in the hobby as far as figure weight goes, in the first brawl 3.2 was the rule I had fun getting in there and rumbling. When I went to Texas I was exposed to 4.0 and the advantages at playing at that weight, ive dabbled in Anthony Burgess's MPFL style when he first put the system together so I understand the advantages of playing at the unlimited weight, The most astonishing though was my man Bret Johnson my hometown brother who when playing with his good buddy Herb Smith use House Paint dipped players bulked up beyond belief, with bases that could push a Sherman Tank, the question guys is what weight works for you?

Well
 

I have been preparing for the BAM @4.0 and i love the consistency of the ride along the board by my guys. i havent noticed a change in strength of one base to another, speaking ofcourse, pound for pound. i havent found it difficult to get the weight up either. NOW, i have yet to actually play someone else at this weight, but so far, i like this much better than 3.2.
just my take.
i remember this question from the miggle board, so to quote my man Shabby J "Hold on to your hats, this is about to get good:) ".





ps- but i am glad BigLock that you posted this. it will be very interesting to see the public opinion this time around as oppossed to the miggle board debate, now that many more coaches have been exposed or experienced 4.0.


drl$$ ENJOY YOUR MF FRIDAY FELLAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!drl$$

SCOTTthmbsp$ thmbsp$

4.0
 

4.0 grams

Varied Weights
 

I prefer a range of weights because after I customize, my players vary in weight. I don’t shave or hollow out any of my players. I also do not add excessive coats of paint on my players. Whatever the weight of a particular player is after it is complete, that is the weight at which it will play. The heaviest player that I have is 4.0g. The lightest player is 3.0g.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

We play 3.5 in the M.O.M.F.L. , and are thinking of raising it to 4.0 for the next season.

I am leaning more and more toward 4.0 as a maximum weight for the simple reason that you can run the board at a higher speed and the men are more stable but I do believe that 3.3 has its place also. I would like to see national standards in place that would have leagues classified into different weigth catagories rather then being all over the board with weigths. Trains have HO, O, N scale. Boxers have different weight brackets. We should to. This is what I would recommend.

3.3 maximum and under
4.0 maximum and under
Unlimited

From playing with both 3.2 and 4.0 I really like them both. Until all tourney are under the 4.0 rule, you need to have both ready. Like I said, like them both but would rather it be 4.0.

Leonard

PS, Lock love the logothmbsp$

4.0
 

4.0 the players seem to run better

Weight
 

Even though I'm not in a league and have yet to play in a tournament I agree with Weirdwolf's idea. In youth football you have different weight classes as well. Guys , think about it . Good idea Weirdwolf !

thmbsp$ thmbsp$ thmbsp$ thmbsp$ thmbsp$

I like 3.2 :)

I have to go with 4.0, players perform and respond better to higher board speeds at this weight. Higher board speeds obviously mean more excitement and also one heck of a pass rush, that QB better look out! I just spent some time experimenting and starting to get my Clemson squad up to 4.0 tonight.

A couple of coaches in LA turned me onto lead tape under the player base to get weight up. I like it way better than the old putty under the base trick.

Lead tape is the way to go in my opinion.

I believe 4.0 needs to be the hobby standard, I really don't see why there is an issue and so much resistance from some coaches. If you got a really killer team decaled and based up at 3.2, then get some lead tape this weekend at a golf proshop, tennis shops carry it too and have some fun when you crank that board speed up. No one likes to wait seven seconds while your receiver tries to run 30 yards after a pass reception at 3.2 grams and your board set on Grandma speed. Get your team up to 4.0, that is figure and base TOGETHER weigh 4.0 and kick it up a notch!

Forget separate base weight and the figure weight too. I never understood that, I think it may have its roots in preventing boiked bases from being used on the sly.

Look at leagues playing at 4.0 now or very seriously entertaining the thought, look at the interest in the 4.0 college series, guys are ready to make this move.

There is obviously no right or wrong here. We've had this discussion and even had an online vote on this subject not too long ago. The problem with the online vote thing is that we don't always get to hear opinions. I respect those who share (and explain) their opinion and to be honest my favorite style is weighted (mainly 4.0 or at least anything 3.5 or 3.6+) because I feel that the players run the smoothest on my big boards as well as 620s. The weighted players have the ability to be much more balance when done with a low center of gravity. Its plain and simple, more weight low creates more stability and hence becomes more balanced which is a good thing when these little players are on a vibrating board. The other thing is that I like the 28mm figures (not the little Miggle guys and the hati repro blockers) and I love customizing so naturally the 2.0 figure is more restricting to me personally. I also like the figure + base total weight rule rather than seperate figure and base weight limits because I believe it opens the door for creativity. I also understand the concern people have with adding weight but I feel that tweaking is far more complex than adding weight and my experience with added weight is that it actually makes tweaking easier. Somebody want to come out with heavier bases? They would work better, I can almost guarantee it. I've said this before, I think that if we had a large scale manufacturer creating real growth in the hobby then their equipment would probably become more of the standard.
Joe

If it is strictly a matter of what I prefer then the answer is simple. Unlimited weight. It outperforms no-weight and limited weight across the board. If you've tried and like 4.0 over 3.2/3.3 then you will probably love unlimited. The biggest advantage aside from performance is you now have ZERO NEED for scales. I.E., Weighing players to pass inspection is no longer necessary. Imagine that! But like ANY method, there are down sides that need to be addressed. And they are the same issues as anything involved with a weighted format requiring limited weight.

Whenever we decide to up the weight from no-weight we make it much more difficult to get more new coaches involved. I'm not saying it doesn't detract from getting potential coaches interested-more interested or less interested. I'm saying it is yet another obstacle/hurdle for them to deal w/just to field a team. Restricted/Limited weight formats (over unlimited weight) makes it even more difficult. Another piece of equipment (scales) they have to have to assure their team's legality.

Don't get me wrong. I prefer weighted over no-weight. 4.0 is good. But the truth is it is no better than 3.6 and only slightly less performing than 5.0-5.5. The real performance in the limited weight category becomes obvious in the ranges of 7.0 minimum to 8-9 maximum. After that it is negligible until you go full blown unlimited. No matter which one chooses, I have found one thing tends to hold consistent. In an unlimited weight format there are no bad bases.

To define "Unlimited", it is using figures of a determined size (length, width, height). Figure weight is NOT important for legality. Materials are restricted to exclude any magnetic, metallic and harmful materials. Bases follow the same line of thought. Bases are weighted w/whatever non-magnetic, non-metallic or non-harmful materials that can be crammed under the shell. Weights can not be visible at field level. I.E., can not hang below the bottom of the base skirt. That is to protect the board from drag marks, etc. This method w/custom figures is my personal favorite way to play.

To make a short reply long.... :) What I prefer is less important than what is good for the growth of the hobby. If I want to strictly insert my opinions about my preferences and leave it at that, I can play solitaire. That way... it's my way... I can have my way every day. I find that compromising my silly preferences for something that will get many more new coaches involved is the right thing to do for the hobby. That is IF the goal is to actually grow it in meaningful numbers. From there, like anyone else and the rest of us, they can gravitate towards other formats or remain where they started. If the agenda is to get existing coaches on-board plus a few stragglers then do whatever. Doesn't matter that much as most of us say the same thing. "Just tell me what the rules are and if I can make the date(s) I'm game." If you are trying to attract a meaningful number of new coaches to play and stay, the answer is painfully obvious. 3.2/3.3 is it.

Sorry for the long post. Hopefully it is of some use to someone or at least makes them think, agree or not. My cruel master, Prince of Pain, has my number and is calling me. So it's back to the Pratt Cave.....

-Mike Pratt

I like 3.3 boiled & 4.0 non boiled bases. 4.0 non boiled bases can hang with some of the best 3.3 boiled bases.

shaggy
 

Well put, .....................also you have to consider the switching of a player to from a rookie base to a ttc base which would be heavier and break the weight limit, .....................that is why one weighs a figure and a bse separately. ;)

Switching a figure from a rookie base to a TTC base, is no problem, if you have lead tape on the bottom of the players platform, run an Exacto knife across it and you can easily remve a strip of tape to get the weight down if you need to.

I don't know if it's done all that often though. In building my 4.0 college team , I pretty much have a figure base combo picked out for a specific position, I tweak it how I need it to be and then once the team is built that figure stays on that base.

Good point though.

it is meant for...
 

in the heat of competition, sometimes, .............the heavier figure " accidently" is found on the heavier base, ...... the weight limit is broken.... YES, .............cheating does happen in this hobby...............rfr$

figures and bases weighed apart
 

This is why the figure and the base are kept to separate weigh in's.
You can have a figure that is very light and a base that is very heavy or the opposite. If they get to the sidelines they can be taken apart and the heavies put together. Then you can have a base and figure that are very heavy and playing and a figure that is very light and just sits on the sidelines looking pretty.

I at first did not understand why they just don't weigh them together. Now I know they are separate playing pieces just put together and they can just aseasily come apart as they are put together.

RS

Coach Rip,
I'm confused, if you favor the "traditional" 3.2 with seperate weight requirements for base (1.20g) + figure (2.0g), then why did you make (and sell) a base that weighs in near 1.4g? I guess I will have $90 more of non-conforming "tournament" equipment???:confused: Please understand I am not bringing this up to create a conflict with you, but to emphasize my point that I like to play with all there is to offer in the hobby, including equipment that is far superior to old traditional Tudor style equipment. I think your new TTC base design looks like a really nice concept, that is why I bought it.

All- In my opinion, the hobby is WAY too small to create more barriers and boundries for people to simply get together to enjoy the hobby. That is why I would be in favor of relaxing OLD standards. At this time in the hobby, I would prefer "weighted" (meaning to measure TOTAL weight and allow it to be above 3.2g, say 3.5/3.6 or something like that as a compromise), and then the hobbyist can figure out how to get to the max weight whether it be slightly above the old 2.0g figure or 1.2g base requirements). As far as competition goes, you can't tell me that a couple tenths of a gram have a bigger affect than tweaking skills (which beginners don't have), so this isn't even about the new coaches. We simply don't have all the "BEST" MF equipment being manufactured by large scale manufacturers that market the game to the masses and this leads to very little in standardization. For example, what are we to do about affordable "standard" game boards, buy an old 1970s Tudor board off of ebay? Is the 620 board really a standard now if nobody produces it anymore with the quality we get from custom gameboard makers (or even older 620 models)? Its really the hobbyists being the ones creating the innovation that we see on this board (reference all the customizing, the new TDQB/TDK, big boards, bases and dials, decals, etc.) and I for one am very open to accepting it all.

I understand why we need standards, and limitations are in place to create a fair and equal opportunity to compete, but I personally think with the current state of the hobby that its FAR more important to loosen up, be all inclusive, and "just play".

I'm JUST a hobbyist and thats my opinion.
Regards,
Joe

3.2 vs 4.0
 

at 3.2 all coaches and teams are equal. makes you coach a team.
at 4.0 you might be heavier than your oppent and win ,but not be a good coach.
my question is this, when do we stop going up in weigh? soon we will be going unlimited.
this weigh thing is another way of showing how we are split in this hobby.
we can't come together on playing by the same rules or style, now we can't get it right on weigh.
just my take on the matter.


BRONCOMAN

To answer the original question: I like them all. I have built a 3.2 team (now 3.3) and love to play with at that weight. I have built a 4.0 team and love to play at that weight. To me it doesnt matter at what weight class you play if the board speed is slow its boring and doesnt resemble the game of football which is what we play. Tweaked correctly bases at 3.3 will glide fine on a "hot" board. I have not built an unlimited team......yet.


Geno H

Smilin
 

Will you cats stop sayin 4.0 guys run better then 3.2 on fast boards...... PLEASE............, all the WR's on my college teams are 2.5 and 2.6 and they can flat out run on fast boards, I tweak on fast boards, not slow boards, you cats gotta put some more time in tweaking if you think only 4.0 guys run better.

P.S. I can play either or, I don't care, but in 3 years will we have the same statements being made,........HEY my 6.0 guy runs better then my 4.0 guy, see what may happen,...............ishor.com, they have some beautiful flat nose pliers for sell (smile).

Norbert Revels

I agree with Norbert on this one. I have some guye that weigh less than 4 that run better than guys that weigh 4. Get in the "LAB" and get better at tweaking, and also remember that Base + Athelete = Success

As much as I know it's futile to continuously preach to the same pulpit.........

Again, I DO NOT CARE how one plays or what they play with. It's their stuff, so enjoy. That said.........

BOARD PERFORMANCE is THE #1 determining factor as to how well the game acts. Many think it's base performance first. Close but not quite. Bad bases on a good board will have the game playing better than good bases on a bad board. So, the amount of weight is only as effective as the board is able to smoothly push it along.

There's nothing wrong w/wanting to play at or liking to play at 4.0 really. Neither is it an evolution of any sort. I see it as yet (albeit it just) another way to play. But in a highly competitive environment, it is pretty much at the bottom of the weighted food chain. There are far better restricted weight ranges to choose from for better performance on respectable boards.

board performance, 'nuff said.

Putting In Time
 

Throughout my time in this hobby, I have discovered that it takes work and dedication to get the most out of this game. There are few corners that one can cut in this hobby. That is one of the reasons the game was and is difficult to play for a lot of people. Folks want the easiest way to play. The truth is there is only one way to play. That way is one base and one figure at a time. That takes patience. Sometimes being patient means grinding until you reach completion. At times, patiently grinding is not easy.

Together optimum board performance and tweak time is what is necessary to really play this game. The weight at which you play is a matter of choice.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

Yep...that's it. Good discussion! Glad to see Pratt in on this one.

What does matter is......
 

I have said this before, and Pratt touched on it too, .................is keeping things basic to facilitate newbies getting in the hobby. That is what I put my efforts into.

I can say with a bit of certainty, and Norbert and electric coach also did, is that tweaking is the key to having a successful team and a positive experience when playing the game...........................so it does not matter what weight you play, all things being equal, ...............if you don't have a nicely tweaked base under the figure, .............it ain't going to matter, .........especially if the board doesn't run well! but, ..................many times it is not the board, ..........it is the base that is not tweaked properly for that particular board.;)

and after reading some things and talking to others....
 

4.0 may just be too heavy for newbies and many others to get up to.
painting, decaling, gathering figures from the different venues are enough work as is, and expensive! now for someone to have to bring there guys up to weight to compete is yet another time consuming, expensive aspect to get involved in.
without learning about and finding lead tape, puddy, etc. one would pretty much be relegated to just FF.com Reggie figures to compete. and that would nt be right cause buzzball, miggle and custom figs offer nice stuff as well.

i liked the experience of 4.0 better, but to involve most of the community, 3.2 - 3.6 might be the best thing. more can be involved(and isnt that the goal) , less work ( time + $$$ ) on your team.

but you know what, we can go on about this forever because there are too many different opinions from all over the nation. and though we chat on the board, we all dont reallly know eachother very well. though we talk on the phone with eachother, we all dont know eachother very well. so right there, it will be a little harder for total harmony because when you are actually friends with someone, it is far easier to communicate, stand your ground or be submissive when discussing ideas. this will come in time as we grow, but right now, there arent enough of us just yet. everyone can not be satisfied right now, it just cant happen, now. perhaps in the future, if we keep trudging along for unity, then we can come together with universal inclusion of the members and play some ball. and that should be some sort of 3.3 standard (give or take a .gram or two). once we rock with this for some time and bring all in, then we can break off into our house Monopoly rules and have varied weight for different tourneys. because by then, mission #1 will be complete - promote the hobby enough so that when our generation moves on, there is a whole community of MFers outthere to step up and keep it going.

SCOTT

I Like...
 

I like...

• ...my OL/DL at 4.0 grams
• ...my QBs, RBs, TEs, and LBs at 3.6 grams
• ...and my WRs and DBs at 3.3 grams.

I also play on a custom big board that is 24" x 48"!!!

It's
 

NOT ABOUT ADDING WEIGH OR PAINT BUT THE SIZE OF MEN. WHEN YOU MAKE MEN THAT CAN'T MAKE WEIGH, YOU MOVE UP THE WEIGH SCALE. AS NOBERT and I said, when do we stop going up in weigh and just stick with one weigh. we as a group need to find a common weigh and stick with it.
then maybe we can pull it all together and be on the same page with everything.


broncoman

My Nickel's Worth - Again.
 

Accepting all of the figures and bases that are available to us, we have to incorporate all, some or none as "standard." Albeit, the original logical "standard" that was set by committee some time ago was 3.2 grams, based on the heaviest figure (Haiti DB) and the heaviest base (TTC).

I don't know - or care - EXACTLY who did it, but since there was no patent, copyright or money involved, who really cares? The point is 3.2 was set and has been the "standard' for almost 10 years! We have, for this period of time, labelled any league/individual that plays above that weight as "weighted" regardless of how they accomplished the increase i.e. baby oil, lead tape, nuts, bolts, screws, etc. That's not the point. The "standard" is.

While the "standard" was set, Buzzball figures and Haiti Repros come onto the scene. They MET the "standard." FootballFigures came about, originally as collector pieces for alumni and NOT for MF, but nonetheless their weight increase is now the "STANDARD" in almost 10 different leagues!?! That is where "4.0" came from.

Shortly after, Miggle produced their ProLine TTCs with 8 prongs vs. the previous base's 4. Obviously, there was an increase in weight and as Norbert and Jim Davis have shared a few times, the weight increase was 0.1 grams on average. Even the newer colored TTCs produced by Miggle have increased in weight a tad bit, bumping Miggle's "standard" up to 3.3 grams.

So, because I like to use everyone's stuff, and I've created my own set of Hybrid Rules that I use in my Traveling College Season (last year ILLINOIS, this year ARMY) and because I have ALWAYS believed all player combinations SHOULD NOT weigh the same, I took a poll awhile ago, both on Miggle's Chatboard and on here and came up with the 3 weight classes. These 3 different weight classes simulate REAL football in as much as RBs and WRs DO NOT weigh as much as OL and DL!!! Nor should they. At least I don't think so. Very few RBs have success blocking a bull-rushing DL. When they both weigh the same, and assuming that both bases are somewhat equally tweaked (in most leagues the same person prolly tweaked 'em!?!), the outcome is not as exciting as seeing a 3.6g RB take on a 4.0 DE. If the DE wins that battle, then you pretty much assumed as much. BUT...if that 3.6g RB pancakes that 4.0 DE...!!!! Then you can do your best Chris "Smokey" Tucker impersonation and say, "DAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGG!!! YOU GOT KNOCKED THE FRAK OUT!!!!!!!!!"

I do agree with Pratt, Norbit and RIP when they say boards are more important than the tweak. My POV comes from me playing on a 24" x 48" big board. Lil speedy guys will just eat dirt on KRs and scrawny OL/DL will get waylayed by stouter players, granted they're the AWAY team. The converse would most likely happen when MICHIGAN travels to APPALACHIAN STATE. The heavier, beefier guys may drag their feet on a smaller board since the vibes aren't gonna be as high as they have to be to push the bigger board.

When I come to your place, I'm playing YOUR way. When you come to my place, you're playing MY way. It really doesn't matter. It doesn't divide the hobby. It just gives it more choices. Just like slot cars or railroading.

Play anyway you want, JUST PLAY!!! thmbsp$ ppls$ :chr:

why not just go back
 

Here's my take on this, why not just go back to 3.2 and just stay there, and why do we need to be at 4.0? to me the player's play the same at 3.2 as they do at 4.0. :confused:

AMEN on the board performance. So...look what boards that new (uninformed) people entering the hobby are buying. :( I for one wasted a lot of money on equipment that don't come close to the level of performance as custom boards etc. How much do people have to spend to figure it out? Its a shame really.

Jimbo- I'm with you, I fully support the "local flavors"... that being play under the rules where you go.

Norbert- I apologize if I misrepresented the traditional 3.2 standard in any way by discussing my opinon of the weighted performance, it was never my intention. I think I've commented that the heavier players run better and I feel I should clarify that. I should have stated that IN MY EXPERIENCE heavier weights (and in particular a heavier base with lower center of gravity) are inherently more balanced and run smoother and with more directional accuracy with far LESS TWEAKING required. I stand by this as this is my personal experience. Now having said that, when the time is put as RD acknowledges (with good tweaking) I completely agree that a sub 3g figure performs absolutely splendid! You are a true "master tweaker" and I can say with first hand knowledge that your players perform on a level that is amazing- after all meeting you more than a year ago and seeing the game played at such a high level was one of the biggest reasons I pursued the hobby further. I simply answered the question that the thread asked, and that is that I prefer weighted because I like the way the players (on average) perform on any board. In fact I'll take it a step further and say that I believe that a heavier base (2.0g+) design would greatly inhance the game. You know what though, my My Mike Hart is under 3.0 and untweaked and he's brilliant (and I aint changing him)!

Scott,
I just read your post, and I share your sentiments of compromise and all inclusiveness. That to me is the most important thing to take out of a discussion like this.
Joe

Weight Of The Year Tournament
 

Has anyone ever thought about playing varied weights at different years? An example would be, this year’s tournament will be 3.2g. Next years tournament will be 3.6g; the year after that 4.0g will be the tournament weight. This way coaches will get the chance to play on all levels if they choose.

As far as newcomers are concerned, allow them to play where they feel comfortable. This hobby is moving ahead. We don’t have time or the luxury to slow down. For the newcomer it’s like jumping on to a train pulling out of the station.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

Come on man.......
 

........I have competed in leagues with 3.3 and 4.0. I prefer the 4.0 weight. Everybody is talking about this weight and that weight but if you can coach it doesn't matter what weight you are competing at. I know Broncoman personally and this is no shot at him but that dude doesn't like change.

I know what he does like for sure is a slow field so he can see the pressure coming, which to me is Horse ----, but that's his way of competing. The 4.0 gameplay let's you jack that board speed up without losing the performance of the athlete.

it's all in the .....
 

If tweaked properly one doesn't have to have the board screaming to experience a faster paced game.

What Is The Real Issue
 

Correct me if I am wrong. Is this discussion about weight or board speed? Regardless of the speed at which the board is at, the heavier team is going to push the lighter team backwards. If a complete 4.0 team plays against a complete 3.2 team, the 3.2 team will get pushed backwards whether the board is fast or slow. That push will be most evident at the line of scrimmage.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

The real issue is.......
 

.......which weight do you prefer??? Coach Rip I understand what you are saying but everyone in the DFWEFL can tweak bases, please don't get the weight desire of 4.0 confused with us not being able to tweak bases!! We would love for you to join us for the TSO labor day weekend. I am pretty sure it is a lot of us in the DFWEFL that would like to get some of that tail!!!

We know it would be a learning curve for you with the fast paced game that we play but we will put on kid gloves for you!! BTW leave the STICKS at HOME if you join us!!!!
drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$ drl$$