General Passing Question
 

Let Them Cover On Their Own
 

I like to rely on my players to go to the place on the board that I designate. An example would be my safeties over top ready to help my corners. After my corners turn in coverage, my safeties come up to help by cutting off passing lanes. How my safeties react depend on what I see on the board during set up.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

Checkers Or Chess?
 

Hopscotch or Double Dutch?
War or Risk?
Dominoes or Bones?

It's all a matter of time, knowledge and experience. You and me and an increasing few are at a more elevated level of playing. No matter how many DVDs we do, most in this hobby are happy playing the way they play. :confused:

Short answer is...... In the gaming world there are those who just play the game and then there are gamers.

SnP (Stop n Pop) passing, as it is primarily used in our hobby, is for those who just play the game. It is the most elementary form of passing that requires some sort of passing skill. It is for those who just play the game, and generally not satisfying or challenging enough for gamers.

SnP is like sideline warm-up passing. Neither the thrower nor the catcher are moving. No defense to read. No emphasis on a receiver having to successfully navigate a route to the ball. No need to worry about hang time (distance + velocity). Yet a lot of people INSIST on having hang time for special teams plays. Insist for SPECIAL teams but not from one of the two most used plays in the game - a pass play.

SnP is like a vulture that only swoops down to feed on road kill, never to hunt for its food.

Yes, in the gaming world there are those who just play the game and then there are gamers. In our little pocket of the gaming world there are vultures and then there are hunters. Hunters tend to feed primarily on moving targets. Hunters even call what they bag "game." Hunters and gamers are a lot alike!

Count this as one of my 3 to 5 provocative posts for the year. ;)

-Mike Pratt

great responses to this post so far.
 

coaches and countryman.


When ant burgess speaks of the passing game he is speaking my language.

1) pass routes

2) defenders making a play on the ball

3)areas in the zone for the qb to hit the wr.

THIS IS ALL TOTALLY NON EXISTENT IN OUR HOBBY.

It seems the old way of doing things from many years ago keep getting grandfathered into many styles toDAY."I HOPE YOU ALL CONTINUE TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU" BUT, there has been no one out there who took it upon themselves to introduce a fresh new idea for these little men until ant came along.

When TUDOR designed this toy, (IT WAS JUST A TOY BACK IN THE 60's AND 70's) They needed a device to simulate a qb throwing the ball. They came up with the ttqb for the kids to flick around thinking they are playing quarterback. it was just another part of the toy to go into the box.
Do you really think a toymaker way back then was interested in a WR running pass routes, and defenders making a play on the ball. A RESOUNDING NOOOOOO !!! . The bases did not even run straight so how could they sell a pass route. Do you think the kids even cared about a pass route. nooooo !
they just wanted to say lookie mommy, im playing football. (THE TTQB WAS JUST THE TOY THAT CAME IN THE BOX).

Tudor/miggle never thought in there wildest imagination that grown men in there 30's 40's and 50's would still have an interest in this game. The only difference is our minds have expanded in regards to football and we all have a basic knowledge of it from either playing, coaching, reffing or just watching on tv. With the advancement of this hobby and all the changes that have been made, we seem to still resort back to the toy that came with the game in the box.

Instead of talking SERIOUS strategy in regards to defensivE BACKS AND RECEIVER ROUTES, the topic of many day is how well someone can throw with a ttqb or someone gives advice on how you should pratice more.
If i started a league in newyork (which is coming) i will not introduce the ttqb to a bunch of grown men. I rather see them working on strategic packages for there entire team. Also, i do not forsee them taking anytime flicking around the ball with the ttqb.

I understand there are many that are great with the ttqb but that is because they have an interest in continuing to use it and not willing to try something else. Do me a favor, pick up a highly detailed figure with facemask, chin straps, gloves, names, numbers, shoe decals, the works. then pick up your ttqb. The 30 to 40 year change is the player looks like what you see on tv, the ttqb is still the toy that came with the game in the box. I will admit i am impressed with THE GREAT "DON HUDSON" of the DFW. The guy took a ttqb and hit a wr in the endzone while the ttqb was in the other endzone on a 308 board. THAT IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But when coaches pride themselves on how good of a passer they are with it, it's sort of like, O.K

Your defenders should be given the op like TROY PALOMOLU AND BOB SANDERS TO MAKE INCREDIBLE PLAYS ON THE BALL. nOT STAND THERE AND WAIT AND SEE IF THE QB CAN HIT ONE OF THEM. The reason why db's are placed directly in front of wr's in our hobby is because there was no real strategy to keep them from running down field. So, many years ago we all resorted to this tug of war. I push past you or i push you back so you can't run anywhere. THAT WAS A NATURAL DEFENSE FOR A KID IN MANY SITUATIONS. Your trying to go somewhere and i must get in front of you to prevent it. I must hold you off for as long as i can .

IT IS DEFENSIVE HOLDING IF YOU PUT A WR IN A BEARHUG ON THE LOS WAITING FOR THE QB TO GET SACKED. I wish a coach would come on here a give me a clearcut answer on why this is still accepted in this day and age.
It has been grandfathered in from many years ago and no one wanted to address it until ant came along !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MANTARAYDRE

In the DCL.....
 

.... the leaders voted in elements of passing sticks and targets. Although you could not take into account running precise routes, at least you had the option of throwing the ball to an area (a target player at the end of the passing stick). If the defender reached the ball first, the result was an interception. That way a defender could react and make a play on the ball during flight.You had to have reliable play from your WR to get to the ball and on defense you could take advantage of speed and zones played by the defense.

I believe the National High Voltage League uses the target method of passing and I really like the target passing system (and it was a great addition to the DCL rules).

The vessel
 

EF is a fun game...it has the ability to challenge the mind and stimulate the creative juices.

I do take a bit of an offense to the logic that we have to evolve EF to account for "combination routes", etc.

To those of you that take that viewpoint, I'll ask you, "OK, how do you account for players jumping and diving?" Simple answer, no matter what you do, those types of things won't be accounted for.

As a vessel, EF can be played, strategized, and at some point there is some diminishing returns when you try to jam too much into this game. There are some interesting twists (dice, multi-stops, etc) that certainly can be done...but should we try to jam too much into this soda can?

Our kids would say that Madden and the other games account for those things much better and one can get creative with play design, combination routes, skill levels, customization, etc. One can jump, leap, dive, twist, spin, etc. They can play their friend who is in Pennsylvania in a live game, trash talk on the headset, and do this all in real-time.

I play EF competitively and enjoy seeing some of the twists and turns. But to turn this thought into much more of a "guys that don't play the way that we play just haven't evolved" is doing a bit of a disservice.

I too want the defender to make a play on the ball and favor some sort of pass simulation or ATTAC method for that reason (I'm a good passer so it isn't out of any sort of competitive advantage/disadvantage)...but because I haven't adopted some of the other things doesn't mean that I haven't evolved...it's simply that I choose a different vessel for my football gaming that would require some of the things that EF can't easily do.

Right on Tom!
 

Can't we all just be happy that we have this hobby - in it's many forms.

I personally am enjoying the time with the guys and now with my son playing in a league with me - it is great!

Thanks Tom! I am right there with ya. The rules that many coaches choose to play under does not equate to thier advancement or knowledge of the game. Period end of story.


Geno H

Just So It Is Perfectly Clear "advancement"
 

Just so things are not misread.


In terms of advancement, i am reffering to the over all look.


1) the fields are much more detailed and realistic looking. Have you seen weirdwolf's chief's field ? wow !

2) the figures are a trillion times advanced. The customs are incredible and look exactly the ther pro player. I visited the apinting contest table at the MFCA convention and the figures were something wrth gold (NO MORE DOTS ON THE HELMETS)


3) THEE MFCA itself. We now have a association.

what i am saying is we have advanced to mimic the NFL. My question is

Why is it that many coaches don't wan't to play the way they view it on T.V.


PLEASE NO ONE TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love to hear about all the various styles of play and suggestions to improve or add some new flavor to leagues.my guess is this is what helps to keep the hobby alive and thriving.New twists keep the game from getting stale.In our league we use passing sticks for a minimum of one half and then have the option to use the TTQB in the other.Passing sticks help the newbie to be competitive in league play so defenses don't just crowd the running game if they can't throw.Also,it allows the defense to make a play and even possibly take it too the house!!! in addition to this is our rule concerning a designated fumble guy on Defense and Offense who can make a play and be a game changer.I know we are in a new league but some of these situations have already made a big impact on the outcomes of some games.


raiderhp

My point of view
 

I do not have much experience as an ef player. But I enjoy games. Formula one games, dice baseball games, table hockey games, axis and allies, diploma cy etc. I really love playing and usually I try to make the rules reflect the reality.

But above all, what is the most important, to me and my playing friend's, is that we agree on a set of rules and that we have a great time playing with these rules.

We played an extensive week end of ef football. We already have adapt some rules to reflect the reality of pro football, especially regarding the kicking game. At the same time we use the buzzball passing stick and to us this is great and we are having fun doing it. These rules are our rules and we enjoy playing according to them. I do not wish the they become everybody's rules.

I love playing ef and I love it beacause I have fun playing it.

Attn: Mantaray Dre
 

Why is it that many coaches don't wan't to play the way they view it on T.V.
No offense at all on your post...this is good dialogue.

Basically I want this game to resemble "football" but it does not need to mimic it. The more stops you allow, the more a flow of a play gets lost. To me there is something pretty cool about a well designed play where the hole gets opened or the receiver gets open all off one switch or one stop.

Do I want to force more into it than one stop can offer? I have no problem if anyone answers yes to that...for my preference it is no.

If it were my only option, maybe. But here, the bevy of "games" have evolved. Video games allow for those types of things in one continuous flow. I can design plays, customize, create a route or a play, and do a lot of things real-time.

So the point of my post is that EF does have some limitations that the real game does not and EF also has some limitations that video games do not. It still resembles football, has definite strategy at play, and has a flow to it.

Is a vibrating board with bases that are not set to go in multiple directions the best vehicle to go beyond a certain level of stops/flow? My point is simply that there is likely some diminishing returns that you give up to try to achieve it on this surface. Doesn't mean we don't like football or understand its intricacies.

This arguement is old same old well!!
 

This one is old come on most coaches like the snp because it gives a level of fun and skill though its pretty easy, because u stop the game and throw and a statiionary player its a way of phyically being a part of the action on the field.When I was a kid what atracted me to the game was a tv commerical of efl kicking a field goal!!The type of action that Ant has found is neat in its own right in fact I use the turning of players after the catch is from some of his rules!!I think the game is always open for design of what want to achieve!!

.
 

Try this, I think it will bring you alot closer to reality than you speak of. In the Bluegrass Electric Football League, we use both the passing sticks and the TTQB. First, the receiver must run to the magnet. At the same time, the defender covering him and any defenders on magnets (up to 2), are also going for the magnet. This gets your "hang-time" for the ball in flight and gives the defenders a chance to intercept, or close in. If the receiver hits the magnet, a passing target is used and the coach needs to use the TTQB to complete the pass. If a defender hits the magnet first, the defensive coach must use the TTQB to hit the target and complete the interception. If the receiver hits the magnet, but then the coach hits a defender with the TTQB, it's an interception. Once a completion is made, all unengaged players not adjusted before, (the receiver and 3 defenders), are now adjusted for the completion of the play. Sometimes you have an open lane to throw through, sometimes you have to arch your pass, sometimes the receiver is so covered you throw it away. Try it, tell me what ya think.

Att, T-kat "pretty Interesting"
 

ATT TOMKAT,

that's pretty interesting. In fact that's the most innovative approach i have heard since THE MPFL SYSTEM. I like the fact that if the defender gets there first the defensive coach gets to pass to make the pick. At least in this scenario the defense gets to make a play on the ball. "pretty interesting". I wonder if others considered this is they are going to use the ttqb. What if the defensive coach hits the receiver while throwing to make a pick. Is that considered the WR knocked the ball down to save the interception. nione the less, at least the D is not standing around. pretty good


MANTARAYDRE

.
 

If the pass from the defensive coach hits a receiver, it's incomplete. We get mostly short passes, less than 20 yds, but there still are the long ones, just not many. Also, if the receiver is within the distance of the longest passing stick, the pass can go directly to the receiver without the use of the sticks. This way you can have screens and slants. Either way, pass completion or interception, they have to hit magnet then coach has to hit target, except when offensive coach hits defender throwing to target.

Why, Why, Why.........
 

MplsTom I agree with you bro. It's my way or the highway has become such a cluster! that it has gotten downright ridiculous. Man play your way and have fun, why is it always a roundabout way of saying the way we play is the best solution and what you guys are doing is old and we haven't evolved.

Jimbo you supposed to be my man and you say this:

Come on loco, I have seen yo game man........:rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl: :rtfl:
No comment I will leave that right where it is. My boys in the LAEFL can vouch for that. All I can say is that some like playing one way and others like to play another way and that should be it. People tend to grasp one way of playing because either they can't be competitive in a certain style of play or it bores them!! Either way it shouldn't matter how one plays but how much fun and how much fellowshipping is going on. Forget the DVD's and all that other garbage on trying to promote your way because you think it is the best.

Quite frankly this looks like another way of getting this board roused up again and I think this is headed down the same road that it has in the beginning. Football is all in one motion there is no stoppage of a play when the ball is snapped unless there is a penalty or time has expired. The game is played to the whistle folks and that to me is the way I want to play. If this was the way to play Miggle, Coach Rip (Winter, Summer, ETC), Don Smith and the Brawl, The Bash and other tournament holders would start playing this way.

Looks like I've seen this thread before? 6 months ago? A year ago? 18 months ago? 24 months ago? Do I sound like a broken record? :rtfl: :rtfl:

Mike.......
 

....you are right we have been down this road before!!!!

Is the Question to Hard to Answer?
 

I can Answer this
 

I really don't understand what you're point is. :confused:

Thanks Mike
 

Well Said
 

Maybe we should invite...
 

Donovan Mcnabb to enter the forum and share with us some of the intricacies of the game - like regular season overtime rules and a sense of urgency!

Just something for all of us football experts to think about. ;)

Donovan...
 

Hello Donovan - where are you Donovan - we have some football questions that we need clarified!

Attn Anthony
 

Thanks for taking the time to read through the posts and respond by paragraph.

I'm all for creative juices being tapped...that's one thing I love about this hobby is its creativity in how the game is played, the artwork that's involved in creating the environment, and the strategy, etc.

My point is simply this...our players are on bases. On a flat board, those bases will either arc or go straight.

In order to go beyond some of the foundational limitations of that, we need to create multi-stops, penalty dice, etc. Nothing wrong with that.

Other vessels, like Madden, allow for a more realistic portrayal of some of the limitations of EF (combination routes, jumping, diving, passing accuracy ratings, etc).

My point is simply that for many of us there is a flow to the game with switch on, switch off, and bases that go straight or arc. This game is still very strategic and resembles football. I do favor rules that allow the defense a play on the ball vs straight stop & pop.

The "point of diminishing returns" is simply a concept that I throw out to say, "this game has limitations." In order to overcome those limitations you likely give up something in terms of flow. I don't think one is "evolved" vs "non-evolved"...it is simply stating that to try to make EF into an exact replica of real football, I'd challenge that there would be more logical vehicles to do that.

I guess it is like adding a ton of bells and whistles onto a Honda Accord. You can trip it out something fierce, but there comes a point where you probably should've just bought an Acura to begin with if that's the aim.