General Passing Question

[Anthony D Burgess]

For as long as I have been in this hobby I have seen a hole lot of thing pertaining to the passing and what many seem to focus on.

Many focus on the ball in flight from the QB to the receiver, and that is all that they focus on.

But what about the other areas of the passing game? Do the have no value?

What about the defenders right to make a play on the ball?

What about combination routes run by the receiver?

What about the receiver, or defender catching the ball? ( If the QB throws it "TTQB" then what about the receiver catching it ? and this done in real time the same as running the ball )

What about the QB buying time in the pocket?

What about the QB's progression ? 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th reads?

It seems to me that when one thinks or talks about the ttqb or other form of this type of passing, then why is all the other parts of the passing game not as important?

Is it right to focus on the flight of the ball only, and not value the other areas
1, Pass routes run
A: Combination routes
B: Open area in a zone
2, Defenders right to the ball
3, Defensive pass rush ie pressure
4, Offensive line men picking up the blitz
5, QB buying time in the pocket, ie moving around
6, QB's progression
A: 1st Receiver
B: 2nd receiver
C: 3rd receiver
D: 4th receiver
E: QB pulling the ball down and running

These are all apart of the passing game in football, however they are not being reflected in a game that is suppose to " Play like real football "

I thought that this would be a good question to ask seeing that there might be new member to this hobby and this might help them to understand the passing game in this hobby

[Electric Coach]

I like to rely on my players to go to the place on the board that I designate. An example would be my safeties over top ready to help my corners. After my corners turn in coverage, my safeties come up to help by cutting off passing lanes. How my safeties react depend on what I see on the board during set up.

Maurice

The Electric Coach

Hopscotch or Double Dutch?
War or Risk?
Dominoes or Bones?

It's all a matter of time, knowledge and experience. You and me and an increasing few are at a more elevated level of playing. No matter how many DVDs we do, most in this hobby are happy playing the way they play.

Short answer is...... In the gaming world there are those who just play the game and then there are gamers.

SnP (Stop n Pop) passing, as it is primarily used in our hobby, is for those who just play the game. It is the most elementary form of passing that requires some sort of passing skill. It is for those who just play the game, and generally not satisfying or challenging enough for gamers.

SnP is like sideline warm-up passing. Neither the thrower nor the catcher are moving. No defense to read. No emphasis on a receiver having to successfully navigate a route to the ball. No need to worry about hang time (distance + velocity). Yet a lot of people INSIST on having hang time for special teams plays. Insist for SPECIAL teams but not from one of the two most used plays in the game - a pass play.

SnP is like a vulture that only swoops down to feed on road kill, never to hunt for its food.

Yes, in the gaming world there are those who just play the game and then there are gamers. In our little pocket of the gaming world there are vultures and then there are hunters. Hunters tend to feed primarily on moving targets. Hunters even call what they bag "game." Hunters and gamers are a lot alike!

Count this as one of my 3 to 5 provocative posts for the year.

-Mike Pratt

[mantaraydre]

coaches and countryman.


When ant burgess speaks of the passing game he is speaking my language.

1) pass routes

2) defenders making a play on the ball

3)areas in the zone for the qb to hit the wr.

THIS IS ALL TOTALLY NON EXISTENT IN OUR HOBBY.

It seems the old way of doing things from many years ago keep getting grandfathered into many styles toDAY."I HOPE YOU ALL CONTINUE TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU" BUT, there has been no one out there who took it upon themselves to introduce a fresh new idea for these little men until ant came along.

When TUDOR designed this toy, (IT WAS JUST A TOY BACK IN THE 60's AND 70's) They needed a device to simulate a qb throwing the ball. They came up with the ttqb for the kids to flick around thinking they are playing quarterback. it was just another part of the toy to go into the box.
Do you really think a toymaker way back then was interested in a WR running pass routes, and defenders making a play on the ball. A RESOUNDING NOOOOOO !!! . The bases did not even run straight so how could they sell a pass route. Do you think the kids even cared about a pass route. nooooo !
they just wanted to say lookie mommy, im playing football. (THE TTQB WAS JUST THE TOY THAT CAME IN THE BOX).

Tudor/miggle never thought in there wildest imagination that grown men in there 30's 40's and 50's would still have an interest in this game. The only difference is our minds have expanded in regards to football and we all have a basic knowledge of it from either playing, coaching, reffing or just watching on tv. With the advancement of this hobby and all the changes that have been made, we seem to still resort back to the toy that came with the game in the box.

Instead of talking SERIOUS strategy in regards to defensivE BACKS AND RECEIVER ROUTES, the topic of many day is how well someone can throw with a ttqb or someone gives advice on how you should pratice more.
If i started a league in newyork (which is coming) i will not introduce the ttqb to a bunch of grown men. I rather see them working on strategic packages for there entire team. Also, i do not forsee them taking anytime flicking around the ball with the ttqb.

I understand there are many that are great with the ttqb but that is because they have an interest in continuing to use it and not willing to try something else. Do me a favor, pick up a highly detailed figure with facemask, chin straps, gloves, names, numbers, shoe decals, the works. then pick up your ttqb. The 30 to 40 year change is the player looks like what you see on tv, the ttqb is still the toy that came with the game in the box. I will admit i am impressed with THE GREAT "DON HUDSON" of the DFW. The guy took a ttqb and hit a wr in the endzone while the ttqb was in the other endzone on a 308 board. THAT IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But when coaches pride themselves on how good of a passer they are with it, it's sort of like, O.K

Your defenders should be given the op like TROY PALOMOLU AND BOB SANDERS TO MAKE INCREDIBLE PLAYS ON THE BALL. nOT STAND THERE AND WAIT AND SEE IF THE QB CAN HIT ONE OF THEM. The reason why db's are placed directly in front of wr's in our hobby is because there was no real strategy to keep them from running down field. So, many years ago we all resorted to this tug of war. I push past you or i push you back so you can't run anywhere. THAT WAS A NATURAL DEFENSE FOR A KID IN MANY SITUATIONS. Your trying to go somewhere and i must get in front of you to prevent it. I must hold you off for as long as i can .

IT IS DEFENSIVE HOLDING IF YOU PUT A WR IN A BEARHUG ON THE LOS WAITING FOR THE QB TO GET SACKED. I wish a coach would come on here a give me a clearcut answer on why this is still accepted in this day and age.
It has been grandfathered in from many years ago and no one wanted to address it until ant came along !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MANTARAYDRE

[Treks1]

.... the leaders voted in elements of passing sticks and targets. Although you could not take into account running precise routes, at least you had the option of throwing the ball to an area (a target player at the end of the passing stick). If the defender reached the ball first, the result was an interception. That way a defender could react and make a play on the ball during flight.You had to have reliable play from your WR to get to the ball and on defense you could take advantage of speed and zones played by the defense.

I believe the National High Voltage League uses the target method of passing and I really like the target passing system (and it was a great addition to the DCL rules).

[MplsTom]

EF is a fun game...it has the ability to challenge the mind and stimulate the creative juices.

I do take a bit of an offense to the logic that we have to evolve EF to account for "combination routes", etc.

To those of you that take that viewpoint, I'll ask you, "OK, how do you account for players jumping and diving?" Simple answer, no matter what you do, those types of things won't be accounted for.

As a vessel, EF can be played, strategized, and at some point there is some diminishing returns when you try to jam too much into this game. There are some interesting twists (dice, multi-stops, etc) that certainly can be done...but should we try to jam too much into this soda can?

Our kids would say that Madden and the other games account for those things much better and one can get creative with play design, combination routes, skill levels, customization, etc. One can jump, leap, dive, twist, spin, etc. They can play their friend who is in Pennsylvania in a live game, trash talk on the headset, and do this all in real-time.

I play EF competitively and enjoy seeing some of the twists and turns. But to turn this thought into much more of a "guys that don't play the way that we play just haven't evolved" is doing a bit of a disservice.

I too want the defender to make a play on the ball and favor some sort of pass simulation or ATTAC method for that reason (I'm a good passer so it isn't out of any sort of competitive advantage/disadvantage)...but because I haven't adopted some of the other things doesn't mean that I haven't evolved...it's simply that I choose a different vessel for my football gaming that would require some of the things that EF can't easily do.

[artlax]

Can't we all just be happy that we have this hobby - in it's many forms.

I personally am enjoying the time with the guys and now with my son playing in a league with me - it is great!

[Geno H]

Originally Posted by MplsTom

EF is a fun game...it has the ability to challenge the mind and stimulate the creative juices.

I do take a bit of an offense to the logic that we have to evolve EF to account for "combination routes", etc.

To those of you that take that viewpoint, I'll ask you, "OK, how do you account for players jumping and diving?" Simple answer, no matter what you do, those types of things won't be accounted for.

As a vessel, EF can be played, strategized, and at some point there is some diminishing returns when you try to jam too much into this game. There are some interesting twists (dice, multi-stops, etc) that certainly can be done...but should we try to jam too much into this soda can?

Our kids would say that Madden and the other games account for those things much better and one can get creative with play design, combination routes, skill levels, customization, etc. One can jump, leap, dive, twist, spin, etc. They can play their friend who is in Pennsylvania in a live game, trash talk on the headset, and do this all in real-time.

I play EF competitively and enjoy seeing some of the twists and turns. But to turn this thought into much more of a "guys that don't play the way that we play just haven't evolved" is doing a bit of a disservice.

I too want the defender to make a play on the ball and favor some sort of pass simulation or ATTAC method for that reason (I'm a good passer so it isn't out of any sort of competitive advantage/disadvantage)...but because I haven't adopted some of the other things doesn't mean that I haven't evolved...it's simply that I choose a different vessel for my football gaming that would require some of the things that EF can't easily do.

Thanks Tom! I am right there with ya. The rules that many coaches choose to play under does not equate to thier advancement or knowledge of the game. Period end of story.


Geno H

[mantaraydre]

Just so things are not misread.


In terms of advancement, i am reffering to the over all look.


1) the fields are much more detailed and realistic looking. Have you seen weirdwolf's chief's field ? wow !

2) the figures are a trillion times advanced. The customs are incredible and look exactly the ther pro player. I visited the apinting contest table at the MFCA convention and the figures were something wrth gold (NO MORE DOTS ON THE HELMETS)


3) THEE MFCA itself. We now have a association.

what i am saying is we have advanced to mimic the NFL. My question is

Why is it that many coaches don't wan't to play the way they view it on T.V.


PLEASE NO ONE TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!