Another scale discussion

[eflfanatic]

I have been researching and trying to sculpt figures for the last 2 weeks and have come to the conclusion that the overall hieght and proportions of a miniature football figure is closer to 40 mm head to toe than any other if the figure were standing straight up. Most of our figures are bent, crouched or posed in a football position giving the illusion that the figure is on the scale of 25 to 28 mm or wargamer size. Just wanted to throw that out into the equation. However if figures are kept to the size and proportion of the 67 big man TE/QB figure then that probably is the reference that should be used in scaling miniature football figures.

[ChrisStacey]

Chris,
You are absolutely on the right track.I've long thought that
EF figs are more like a 35-40 mm size as opposed to 25 / 28 mm.
I have a 28mm ALAMO set-up with 28mm figures and there is
a noticable difference.I really would like to know the "correct" scale
for our hobby,figure wise........
Any "scale" experts out there ?????? Chime in,please.......

SEMPER FI,
Chris Stacey
Hampton,VA.

[5-13 Studios]

When measuring the scale of a figure, the measurement is from the foot to the eye level, not the top of the head. The 28mm scale measurement is an assumption of 6 feet in height for a figure that measures 28mm from eye level to the bottoms of the feet. Haiti repros, miggle regular men, buzzball are all around the 28mm scale range. Throw in a few 67 bigmen, and you have exactly that, big men on your squad. The figures that I make are within this scale range. To say that these figures are 40mm in size would actually make them likened to pee-wee football size. I'll post some pictures of 28mm scale figures that I have next to multiple types of figures, they're all the same scale.

[eflfanatic]

I really don't think there is a definitive "correct size" or scale for our figures. I have made comparisons of all the different figures that I have and there is a very noticeable difference in proportions not so much in height but in body build.

Here is a quote from a discussion on Miniature scale that is very interesting:

Two Measures of Scale
The size of a miniature, relative to what it is a replica of, is known as the scale of the figure. For no particularly good reason, two different systems are used to rate scale.
• Some scales are given as a ratio, variously written as either a ratio (i.e., 1:300 or 1.300) or a fraction (i.e., 1/300). The number on the right of the pair indicates how many units (inches or centimeters) on the original are equivalent to one unit on the replica. For example, with a 1:300 scale miniature, if the miniature is 1" long, then the original was 300" in length. In spoken English, you would say 1/300 as "one [pause] three hundred scale."
• Other scales are simply listed as a certain height, such as 15mm or 54mm. Most people usually think of this as being the height of an average man (i.e., in 15mm scale, men are 15mm high), but there is a lot of confusion on this issue. According to some experts (but not all), "traditional" figure heights are measured to eye level, since measuring to the top of the head is impractical for figures wearing headgear (as many military figures do). Therefore, when a manufacturer says his figures are (for instance) 25mm scale, he might mean "25mm to top of the head" or "25mm to eye level."
Just to confuse things further, manufacturers have been slowly making their figures a bit larger in recent years. The extra size gives more room for details, so that a "large 15mm" figure often looks sharper than a "classic 15mm" figure - and that's because it's not actually a 15mm figure, but (often) an 18mm figure! The same is true with 25mm figures, as represented by the miniatures put out by Games Workshop as well as by Reaper's "heroic" 25mm figures (both of which measure closer to 28mm in scale).
As a final note, even figures which ostensibly are in the same scale may differ considerably in body build, head size, and general sculpting style - even when made by the same manufacturer! (For instance, older figures vs. newer figures from the same company.) Styles may differ considerably, as some manufacturers see their goal as to make scale replicas, while others concentrate on making "gaming pieces" which are inexpensive, durable, or easy to paint. Plastic figures may be sculpted in a thinner style than metal figures. Therefore, if you are concerned whether you can mix figures from different product lines or companies and have them look appropriate, you may first want to order samples from the manufacturer. (http://theminiaturespage.com/ref/scales.html)

IS OUR GOAL TO MAKE SCALE REPLICAS OR GAMING PIECES???

[5-13 Studios]

Those are great points and I am glad to see the research.
Yeah, over time sculpters have taken "liberties" with scale in order to gain greater detail in the miniature wargaming world. I have been seeing the same "liberties" taken with ef figures. There is nothing wrong with it, in my opinion, but when asked what the base scale of our figures are, I always reply with 28mm. In my mind, it's the closest.
Regardless of scale, having fun with the game is really all that matters.

[eflfanatic]

Regardless of scale, having fun with the game is really all that matters.

I posted this question because I do believe that at some point we have to set some standards in relation to scale for the game and hobby. I have already sent a proposal to the board of directors stating that the base scale should be 28mm. The purpose of this proposal is merely a guide to give future manufacturers and developers of products for the miniature football game and hobby something to go by that will be both acceptable to the miniature football community and profitable for the manufacturer.

But you are right "having fun with the game is really all that matters"

Wonder how many times the wargaming community has had this discussion?

[the french guy]

According to some experts (but not all), "traditional" figure heights are measured to eye level, since measuring to the top of the head is impractical for figures wearing headgear (as many military figures do).

This is true. As a former freelance sculptor (wargaming terrain and accessories), I worked for several minis manufacturers, and every time when the scale question appeared, the manufacturer spoke about eye level. SO a 15mm scale figure measures 15 mm from feet to eyes most of the time