General Passing Question

[Anthony D Burgess]

Originally Posted by jimmie

This one is old come on most coaches like the snp because it gives a level of fun and skill though its pretty easy, because u stop the game and throw and a statiionary player its a way of phyically being a part of the action on the field.When I was a kid what atracted me to the game was a tv commerical of efl kicking a field goal!!The type of action that Ant has found is neat in its own right in fact I use the turning of players after the catch is from some of his rules!!I think the game is always open for design of what want to achieve!!

I guess the question is to hard to answer!

Jimmie you can also be apart of the game through thinking, reacting, adjusting, making football decisions, not just by use of the ttqb. Wouldn't you agree? Hope this question is not to hard for you to answer

[Anthony D Burgess]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Try this, I think it will bring you alot closer to reality than you speak of. In the Bluegrass Electric Football League, we use both the passing sticks and the TTQB. First, the receiver must run to the magnet. At the same time, the defender covering him and any defenders on magnets (up to 2), are also going for the magnet. This gets your "hang-time" for the ball in flight and gives the defenders a chance to intercept, or close in. If the receiver hits the magnet, a passing target is used and the coach needs to use the TTQB to complete the pass. If a defender hits the magnet first, the defensive coach must use the TTQB to hit the target and complete the interception. If the receiver hits the magnet, but then the coach hits a defender with the TTQB, it's an interception. Once a completion is made, all unengaged players not adjusted before, (the receiver and 3 defenders), are now adjusted for the completion of the play. Sometimes you have an open lane to throw through, sometimes you have to arch your pass, sometimes the receiver is so covered you throw it away. Try it, tell me what ya think.

How long does it take to do this procedure? TTQB takes about 10 seconds to do when the bords stops. The Pass Placement takes 3 seconds. Buzz Ball takes about 10 seconds.

[Anthony D Burgess]

Originally Posted by MplsTom

EF is a fun game...it has the ability to challenge the mind and stimulate the creative juices. When the juices flow why try to stifle it by saying the following;

I do take a bit of an offense to the logic that we have to evolve EF to account for "combination routes", etc. This is creativity in action!!! What is wrong with it?

To those of you that take that viewpoint, I'll ask you, "OK, how do you account for players jumping and diving?" Simple answer, no matter what you do, those types of things won't be accounted for. You account for this through the speed of the player, and the power of the player in a balanced structure and procedure.

As a vessel, EF can be played, strategized, and at some point there is some diminishing returns when you try to jam too much into this game. There are some interesting twists (dice, multi-stops, etc) that certainly can be done...but should we try to jam too much into this soda can? Do you play 11 vs 11 football on a basket court? But you play it playing on these small boards, isn't that jamming too much in a soda can? :rolleyes:

Our kids would say that Madden and the other games account for those things much better and one can get creative with play design, combination routes, skill levels, customization, etc. One can jump, leap, dive, twist, spin, etc. They can play their friend who is in Pennsylvania in a live game, trash talk on the headset, and do this all in real-time. Madden is painting by the numbers, this hobby is painting without the numbers. Madden can not teach the How or the Why, can it give you the reason for, it can not give the understanding .

I play EF competitively and enjoy seeing some of the twists and turns. But to turn this thought into much more of a "guys that don't play the way that we play just haven't evolved" is doing a bit of a disservice. First you start off saying " EF is a fun game...it has the ability to challenge the mind and stimulate the creative juices." Now this contradiction ?

I too want the defender to make a play on the ball and favor some sort of pass simulation or ATTAC method for that reason (I'm a good passer so it isn't out of any sort of competitive advantage/disadvantage)...but because I haven't adopted some of the other things doesn't mean that I haven't evolved...it's simply that I choose a different vessel for my football gaming that would require some of the things that EF can't easily do.

I really don't understand what you're point is.

[Anthony D Burgess]

Originally Posted by TheTweakFreak

Short answer is...... In the gaming world there are those who just play the game and then there are gamers.

SnP (Stop n Pop) passing, as it is primarily used in our hobby, is for those who just play the game. It is the most elementary form of passing that requires some sort of passing skill. It is for those who just play the game, and generally not satisfying or challenging enough for gamers.

SnP is like sideline warm-up passing. Neither the thrower nor the catcher are moving. No defense to read. No emphasis on a receiver having to successfully navigate a route to the ball. No need to worry about hang time (distance + velocity). Yet a lot of people INSIST on having hang time for special teams plays. Insist for SPECIAL teams but not from one of the two most used plays in the game - a pass play.

SnP is like a vulture that only swoops down to feed on road kill, never to hunt for its food.

Yes, in the gaming world there are those who just play the game and then there are gamers. In our little pocket of the gaming world there are vultures and then there are hunters. Hunters tend to feed primarily on moving targets. Hunters even call what they bag "game." Hunters and gamers are a lot alike!

Count this as one of my 3 to 5 provocative posts for the year.

-Mike Pratt

Thanks for the intelligent comment.

[Anthony D Burgess]

Originally Posted by MANTARAY- DRE

coaches and countryman.


When ant burgess speaks of the passing game he is speaking my language.

1) pass routes

2) defenders making a play on the ball

3)areas in the zone for the qb to hit the wr.

THIS IS ALL TOTALLY NON EXISTENT IN OUR HOBBY.

It seems the old way of doing things from many years ago keep getting grandfathered into many styles toDAY."I HOPE YOU ALL CONTINUE TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU" BUT, there has been no one out there who took it upon themselves to introduce a fresh new idea for these little men until ant came along.

When TUDOR designed this toy, (IT WAS JUST A TOY BACK IN THE 60's AND 70's) They needed a device to simulate a qb throwing the ball. They came up with the ttqb for the kids to flick around thinking they are playing quarterback. it was just another part of the toy to go into the box.
Do you really think a toymaker way back then was interested in a WR running pass routes, and defenders making a play on the ball. A RESOUNDING NOOOOOO !!! . The bases did not even run straight so how could they sell a pass route. Do you think the kids even cared about a pass route. nooooo !
they just wanted to say lookie mommy, im playing football. (THE TTQB WAS JUST THE TOY THAT CAME IN THE BOX).

Tudor/miggle never thought in there wildest imagination that grown men in there 30's 40's and 50's would still have an interest in this game. The only difference is our minds have expanded in regards to football and we all have a basic knowledge of it from either playing, coaching, reffing or just watching on tv. With the advancement of this hobby and all the changes that have been made, we seem to still resort back to the toy that came with the game in the box.

Instead of talking SERIOUS strategy in regards to defensivE BACKS AND RECEIVER ROUTES, the topic of many day is how well someone can throw with a ttqb or someone gives advice on how you should pratice more.
If i started a league in newyork (which is coming) i will not introduce the ttqb to a bunch of grown men. I rather see them working on strategic packages for there entire team. Also, i do not forsee them taking anytime flicking around the ball with the ttqb.

I understand there are many that are great with the ttqb but that is because they have an interest in continuing to use it and not willing to try something else. Do me a favor, pick up a highly detailed figure with facemask, chin straps, gloves, names, numbers, shoe decals, the works. then pick up your ttqb. The 30 to 40 year change is the player looks like what you see on tv, the ttqb is still the toy that came with the game in the box. I will admit i am impressed with THE GREAT "DON HUDSON" of the DFW. The guy took a ttqb and hit a wr in the endzone while the ttqb was in the other endzone on a 308 board. THAT IS VERY IMPRESSIVE. But when coaches pride themselves on how good of a passer they are with it, it's sort of like, O.K

Your defenders should be given the op like TROY PALOMOLU AND BOB SANDERS TO MAKE INCREDIBLE PLAYS ON THE BALL. nOT STAND THERE AND WAIT AND SEE IF THE QB CAN HIT ONE OF THEM. The reason why db's are placed directly in front of wr's in our hobby is because there was no real strategy to keep them from running down field. So, many years ago we all resorted to this tug of war. I push past you or i push you back so you can't run anywhere. THAT WAS A NATURAL DEFENSE FOR A KID IN MANY SITUATIONS. Your trying to go somewhere and i must get in front of you to prevent it. I must hold you off for as long as i can .

IT IS DEFENSIVE HOLDING IF YOU PUT A WR IN A BEARHUG ON THE LOS WAITING FOR THE QB TO GET SACKED. I wish a coach would come on here a give me a clearcut answer on why this is still accepted in this day and age.
It has been grandfathered in from many years ago and no one wanted to address it until ant came along !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MANTARAYDRE

Well Stated Dre!!!!!

[artlax]

Donovan Mcnabb to enter the forum and share with us some of the intricacies of the game - like regular season overtime rules and a sense of urgency!

Just something for all of us football experts to think about.

[artlax]

Hello Donovan - where are you Donovan - we have some football questions that we need clarified!

[MplsTom]

Thanks for taking the time to read through the posts and respond by paragraph.

I'm all for creative juices being tapped...that's one thing I love about this hobby is its creativity in how the game is played, the artwork that's involved in creating the environment, and the strategy, etc.

My point is simply this...our players are on bases. On a flat board, those bases will either arc or go straight.

In order to go beyond some of the foundational limitations of that, we need to create multi-stops, penalty dice, etc. Nothing wrong with that.

Other vessels, like Madden, allow for a more realistic portrayal of some of the limitations of EF (combination routes, jumping, diving, passing accuracy ratings, etc).

My point is simply that for many of us there is a flow to the game with switch on, switch off, and bases that go straight or arc. This game is still very strategic and resembles football. I do favor rules that allow the defense a play on the ball vs straight stop & pop.

The "point of diminishing returns" is simply a concept that I throw out to say, "this game has limitations." In order to overcome those limitations you likely give up something in terms of flow. I don't think one is "evolved" vs "non-evolved"...it is simply stating that to try to make EF into an exact replica of real football, I'd challenge that there would be more logical vehicles to do that.

I guess it is like adding a ton of bells and whistles onto a Honda Accord. You can trip it out something fierce, but there comes a point where you probably should've just bought an Acura to begin with if that's the aim.